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  • FIRST POST
    • palasmy
    • By palasmy 6th Feb 18, 10:29 PM
    • 120Posts
    • 15Thanks
    palasmy
    Burnt clutch - hire vehicle
    • #1
    • 6th Feb 18, 10:29 PM
    Burnt clutch - hire vehicle 6th Feb 18 at 10:29 PM
    Hi

    I had recently rented a Talento (10 seater) from Green motion and I'm now being charged 400 + 2200 pounds for a windscreen damage and a burnt clutch.

    Basically, I rented the vehicle on a friday night from Gatwick, the vehicle was shown as fit for renting with no issues in the standard forms that they generate for their fleet when they rent them out. But they said since it was dark to closely examine anything in detail if I find any significant damage, I should be reporting it the next day before 10 am. I drove the vehicle from Gatwick to Tonbridge (32 miles), admittedly there wasn't any smell in the vehicle at that time. The next day morning I again drove the vehicle back to Crawley (nearly same distance), but on the way back there was a strong smell in the vehicle. Dismissing it for some outside roadworks (happening at that time), managed to return to tonbridge. However, that afternoon when I took the vehicle out the smell was again there, which is when I felt there was something not right. Then it was reported to the Assistance people, the guys after doing some checks and test drives commented it definitely smells like clutch but there appears to be no issues with the mechanics as it drives fine.
    However, I insisted for a replacement vehicle and green motion after checking the reports from the roadside assistance company agreed to replace it with an another talento that same night.
    When I was there to pick up my replacement vehicle, the people on duty initially said the only Talento that they had, had a windscreen damage to it and so it can't be rented out. But then after few minutes, they came back to me and said actually the damaged vehicle was already sent out to garage and the vehicle they had was fit for renting. In a desperate need for vehicle it never struck me to double check the windscreen at that hour. But then when I returned the vehicle on Monday night, the guy who checked the vehicle claimed that the windscreen has been damaged during my renting. And it was so obvious that the way he checked that spot seemed so artificial, one the damage was in a place that even a normal check wouldn't have shown it as it was right beneath the wiper on the black band of the windscreen almost at the meeting point with the bonnet and two, his body language was so obvious that he was going to find something. Apparently, it turns out that he was the person to check this vehicle after it was returned from previous hire. So, the possibility that he could have missed this the last time and now to save himself from the trouble tries to put it on my head.

    I'm now completely lost with amount that I have been asked to pay and also don't know how to dispute this claim as I genuinely feel both the damages aren't due to me. I have had a UK license for 10 years and strongly feel that the clutch was probably already worn out and I was really unlucky that it burnt out during my hire.

    And the windscreen damage clearly appears like a preplanned event given the conversations I had during the vehicle replacement time.

    Greenmotion have sent me the following mail about the clutch and have already charged me for the windscreen.

    Would really appreciate people's suggestions and comments on this issue and on how I could go about this whole incident.

    "Thank you for your emails. Firstly please accept my apologies for the delay in coming back to you. The reason for this was as diuscussed on the phone previously a few parts needed for the repairs were on back order. Now that the repairs have been completed we are able to submit our final outlay to you for the clutch that was burnt whilst in your possession.

    Whilst I appreciate charging for items such as a clutch replacement is far from an ideal way to end of hire, we do on occasions need to do this. In order to avoid any non-expert opinion, I have asked a number of vehicle technicians for their view. You can obviously do the same. If a clutch was to fail due to general wear and tear, both sides of the clutch plate would wear away at the same or a similar rate. As you can see from the attachments this is not the case.

    Once again, while I do appreciate that this is not an easy thing to accept, it is a reasonably simple thing for us to prove. In the opinion of the repair agents and other people that we have spoken to, the speed at which the failure occurred and the nature of the wear to the clutch parts suggests damage that occurred swiftly (i.e. not over thousands of miles) and as a result of the user at the time. Therefore based on this opinion, we are looking to you for the costs incurred for the damage to the clutch.

    In order to make payment please go to www.glir.co.uk. The amount due is shown below. You also have the invoice fully declaring the main costs that we incurred. I hope this helps and I look forward to hearing from you shortly.
    "

    I have the photos of the clutch that green motion has sent me but I couldn't attach it here, but if anyone has such technical / mechanical expertise on this then please let me know I can email them to you for reference.

    Really sad and totally lost...

    Thanks all for your help
    P
Page 5
    • palasmy
    • By palasmy 14th Mar 18, 8:56 AM
    • 120 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    palasmy
    Hi All, this is the reply I have got for my mail,

    "Thank you for coming back to me. You have mentioned for both elements of damage caused have not been done so and our evidence is inconsistent. Can I ask you to elaborate on that?

    Green Motion have provided you with all of the information to support both damages and also all the costs that we have incurred.

    Kind regards "

    "I do not believe that the clutch damage was caused by my negligence and also I'm not convinced that the windscreen was damaged whilst the vehicle was in my possession.

    Your evidence is inconsistent with your statement. As such I am not liable."
    • palasmy
    • By palasmy 14th Mar 18, 6:15 PM
    • 120 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    palasmy
    Hi

    I was hoping to respond something like below, please can I have your comments,

    "Green Motion didn't provide anything except two photos of a damaged clutch plate and of course the invoice.

    And for the windscreen there wasn't any detailed report about GM investigation based on the evidences i provided except that GM royally went ahead with their charging on my card.

    So for all the above reasons, I felt nothing was fairly dealt with and everything said so far as the emails suggest were inconsistent in my opinion.

    Hope it is clear now..
    "
    • IanMSpencer
    • By IanMSpencer 14th Mar 18, 9:59 PM
    • 1,462 Posts
    • 1,079 Thanks
    IanMSpencer
    I think communication with them is of little use. I would complain to your credit card company and insist on a refund until the matter is resolved. Simply reply to them that as they are not engaging in a reasonable dialogue you do not wish to communicate with them further, you are applying to the credit card company for a refund of the windscreen charge and that unless their communication is a letter before claim, you will not respond further.

    Actually, I'd also say that even if a windscreen did chip in your use, I would not see that you should be liable, as these things happen beyond your control - you have not been negligent or careless, much as I would not expect to be liable for the odd stone chip on a bonnet. I would fall back on consumer contract legislation if they tried to say you were contractually liable. It is their fault if they are hiring cars and haven't allowed for the occasional costs of windscreen chips.
    • palasmy
    • By palasmy 14th Mar 18, 10:07 PM
    • 120 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    palasmy
    I think communication with them is of little use. I would complain to your credit card company and insist on a refund until the matter is resolved. Simply reply to them that as they are not engaging in a reasonable dialogue you do not wish to communicate with them further, you are applying to the credit card company for a refund of the windscreen charge and that unless their communication is a letter before claim, you will not respond further.

    Actually, I'd also say that even if a windscreen did chip in your use, I would not see that you should be liable, as these things happen beyond your control - you have not been negligent or careless, much as I would not expect to be liable for the odd stone chip on a bonnet. I would fall back on consumer contract legislation if they tried to say you were contractually liable. It is their fault if they are hiring cars and haven't allowed for the occasional costs of windscreen chips.
    Originally posted by IanMSpencer
    You actually reminded me of a another valid point here, the windscreen damage was much more than a simple chip, IanMspencer. This is why I strongly suspect they have screwed up before my renting and are now trying to put it on me. It is literally big crack that runs horizontally across the wiper blade...
    • MilduraS
    • By MilduraS 14th Mar 18, 10:32 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    MilduraS
    Apologies if this has been said before, it's a long thread. Do they have photos of the car taken between your hire period and the previous hire period that can be date verified?

    I haven't hired a car before but when using airport parking the person collecting the car has always taken photos at the time of collection and when dropping it off. Any established hire company should do the same.
    • Ectophile
    • By Ectophile 14th Mar 18, 10:34 PM
    • 3,060 Posts
    • 1,940 Thanks
    Ectophile
    I don't know why you're even bothering to have discussions with them any more.

    All you need is a curt message denying all liability, and informing them that you have no wish to enter into any further discussions.

    The same goes if you ever get a Letter Before Action.

    The only thing you need to take proper action on is a county court summons.
    If it sticks, force it.
    If it breaks, well it wasn't working right anyway.
    • IanMSpencer
    • By IanMSpencer 15th Mar 18, 7:25 AM
    • 1,462 Posts
    • 1,079 Thanks
    IanMSpencer
    You actually reminded me of a another valid point here, the windscreen damage was much more than a simple chip, IanMspencer. This is why I strongly suspect they have screwed up before my renting and are now trying to put it on me. It is literally big crack that runs horizontally across the wiper blade...
    Originally posted by palasmy
    Big cracks start from little chips. A big crack still does not imply negligence and of course it might have been obscured by the wipers so you might not have noticed it. Or they may have spotted the chip, decided it looked like it needed a new screen and tapped it to make the damage worse.
    • palasmy
    • By palasmy 21st Mar 18, 6:13 AM
    • 120 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    palasmy
    Hello All

    Just to update, since Gm's last request to elaborate, after a bit of thought I decided not to respond.

    Until now, haven't had any communication..
    • Gerald Jones
    • By Gerald Jones 22nd Mar 18, 8:28 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Gerald Jones
    GREENMOTION or Green Motion is an apt name for what is probably the worst car hire company in the UK. Only those who are green or inexperienced would hire from this evil company. So, do your homework and read about this firm before you sign anything. They train their staff to deliberately make up or even cause damage on your returned hired vehicle for a nice bonus. Employees can make $100's/ day by lying.. Their staff are awarded high bonuses for lying. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED FOLKS.
    • Zandoni
    • By Zandoni 4th Apr 18, 6:13 PM
    • 2,766 Posts
    • 1,475 Thanks
    Zandoni
    Here’s another victim http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=74114036&utm_source=MSE_FS&utm_me dium=Email&utm_term=03-Apr-18
    • palasmy
    • By palasmy 5th Apr 18, 6:26 AM
    • 120 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    palasmy
    Hi All, I have received the below mail from GM yesterday,

    "Further to my colleagues email this morning, this clutch issue is now due to be passed over for legal proceedings in order to recover what we are due. This is of course something that I would much like to avoid.

    I look forward to hearing from you shortly regarding closing this matter down."


    Wondered should I restart the communication or just sit tight and watch..
    • palasmy
    • By palasmy 5th Apr 18, 6:28 AM
    • 120 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    palasmy
    Was also thinking about disputing the windscreen damage, can I say I would like to take legal action against that charge?
    • esmerobbo
    • By esmerobbo 5th Apr 18, 7:30 AM
    • 4,723 Posts
    • 6,191 Thanks
    esmerobbo
    I would be asking the credit card company to investigate the windscreen damage, they would want to see a receipt and a record of payment. Not the scrap of paper they sent you.

    As for the clutch let them issue a LBC then worry about it.
    • microstar
    • By microstar 5th Apr 18, 4:24 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    microstar
    From what I've seen Green Motion are not a car hire company they are a criminal enterprise repeatedly defrauding customers. Europcar UK are currently being investigated by the Serious Fraud Office for fraudulently overcharging customers for alleged damage. Green Motion should also be part of the investigation. Write to your local Trading Standards and also your MP.
    • palasmy
    • By palasmy 5th Apr 18, 9:49 PM
    • 120 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    palasmy
    Thanks Korting and Rookie, I didn't reply but today I have received another mail as below and this one has 'LBA' on top of the email.. Is it not that a LBA should be sent out through a normal registered post?

    "** LETTER BEFORE ACTION. **

    Good afternoon

    Further to my colleagues email, I would like to follow that up with just a polite note to say Adam will be beginning legal proceedings in 7 days from today if we do not have an agreement in place regarding payment.

    I am happy to work with you on this and I look forward to hearing from you shortly.
    "

    I suspect they have only woken up again after I asked them to refund the remainder of the 400 they had originally charged for windscreen damage. I queried this last week and they had sent me an proforma invoice showing they will repay the balance of 60 as the invoice was for only 340. I suspect this communication probably gave them the message that I have accepted the windscreen damage without disputing and so they want to give another go with the clutch.

    And now few days since that mail, they are now starting this new chapter for the clutch. I'm wondering if I should respond by saying I'm planning for a legal action for the windscreen damage as I have enough reason to dispute it.
    • palasmy
    • By palasmy 13th Apr 18, 11:17 PM
    • 120 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    palasmy
    Today I had an another email as below from GM, wonder if I should start considering a response?

    "I have tried to contact you this afternoon to discuss the outstanding balance of £2169.72 you have with us. As payment has not been made, and not contact has been made from yourself, we will be issuing a legal claim against yourself. We would prefer to avoid this situation for us both. However, as you have not made payment we have no choice but to go down this route. I am available on XXXXXX to discuss this or you can email me with any additional questions.

    Kind regards"


    Thanks
    • esmerobbo
    • By esmerobbo 14th Apr 18, 3:30 AM
    • 4,723 Posts
    • 6,191 Thanks
    esmerobbo
    Let them issue a claim if they think they have a case.

    It would be interesting to see the evidence they have and the breakdown of the costs if nothing else.
    • palasmy
    • By palasmy 16th Apr 18, 11:44 PM
    • 120 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    palasmy
    As GM has been sending me mails of reminders including a LBA over the past week and one today as well, I was thinking to respond along the lines of IanSpencer's suggestion as below,

    "I'm not prepared for any discussions until Green Motion can show proof that the damage was not present before my hire and that any charges are reasonable and reflect that you have sought to minimise any loses incurred, and that the amount you are claiming is a true reflection of your costs incurred. You will of course be required to produce this information if you seek to progress a legal claim, so you must already have this on record."

    Would appreciate your comments and advise

    Thanks
    • esmerobbo
    • By esmerobbo 17th Apr 18, 5:30 AM
    • 4,723 Posts
    • 6,191 Thanks
    esmerobbo
    They are sending you reminders, if they think they have a case they would send you a real LBA.

    Be very careful what you email them, reading that above could be read as you are disputing the costs rather then disputing the fact the clutch was not down to you.
    • Zandoni
    • By Zandoni 17th Apr 18, 5:45 AM
    • 2,766 Posts
    • 1,475 Thanks
    Zandoni
    As GM has been sending me mails of reminders including a LBA over the past week and one today as well, I was thinking to respond along the lines of IanSpencer's suggestion as below,

    "I'm not prepared for any discussions until Green Motion can show proof that the damage was not present before my hire and that any charges are reasonable and reflect that you have sought to minimise any loses incurred, and that the amount you are claiming is a true reflection of your costs incurred. You will of course be required to produce this information if you seek to progress a legal claim, so you must already have this on record."

    Would appreciate your comments and advise

    Thanks
    Originally posted by palasmy
    It's probably best not to let them know how you are going to fight the claim in court. You could just tell them that you are an experienced driver and any clutch fault with the vehicle could not be down to you.
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