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    • portchieboy
    • By portchieboy 5th Feb 18, 10:12 PM
    • 601Posts
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    portchieboy
    Mother in law in care home
    • #1
    • 5th Feb 18, 10:12 PM
    Mother in law in care home 5th Feb 18 at 10:12 PM
    Sadly, MIL is in a home, having Dementia, and not being able to look after herself. She has never had much money, but she has about 18k in savings. She is 94 by the way.

    She is in a private home, there having been no council places 2 years ago when she went in, and the council pay their max??? stipulated figure per month, we top up with about 465 pm. The family agreed when she went in that we would pay the top up, and reclaim it from the estate in due course.

    Reason for this is that the council said that MIL cannot use her 18,000 to pay the top up herself. What I do not understand is that if mIL had no money, they would pay the full total. However, if she cannot use her money to pay the top up, then she will never run out? Yes, she could gift money to the family, but surely then the council would say that we were cheating the system.

    Something seems wrong here. In little over a year the offset funds will run out, and frankly we as one of 3 families cannot afford to bear the burden. The others will not/cannot contribute. Can anyone clarify the whole shooting match for me please?
    O would some power the giftie gie us to see ourselves as others see us.

    (O would some power the gift to give us to see ourselves as others see us
    .)

    Robert Burns
Page 1
    • teddysmum
    • By teddysmum 5th Feb 18, 11:03 PM
    • 9,044 Posts
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    teddysmum
    • #2
    • 5th Feb 18, 11:03 PM
    • #2
    • 5th Feb 18, 11:03 PM
    Most councils use private homes as they have very few of their own. My late father was put into one (Parkinson's Disease), then moved to another private one, as the first couldn't cope with dementia, which he was developing.


    He was self funding as he had some savings and owned his house, so had he lived longer, he would have had to pay the full fee until his assets dropped to the then maximum allowance, after which they would give more and more help until his assets reached the minimum about 14K (amounts have changed since then) after which they would pay full fees.


    However,these were private homes nominated by the council (they more recently put my mother-in-law, a self funder, into a BUPA home). The council pays a low fee which care homes say is not enough, so the self funders are overcharged to make up for this (very unfair as they pay fully for their own and then another person's fees).


    If you chose a more expensive home, they may be assuming that m-i-l is not able to choose ,so you made the expensive choice so have to cover the extra.


    Does the lady not own her own home ?
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 6th Feb 18, 12:02 AM
    • 25,593 Posts
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    xylophone
    • #3
    • 6th Feb 18, 12:02 AM
    • #3
    • 6th Feb 18, 12:02 AM
    https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/care-homes/paying-for-a-care-home/
    • arielsmelody
    • By arielsmelody 6th Feb 18, 12:11 PM
    • 34 Posts
    • 26 Thanks
    arielsmelody
    • #4
    • 6th Feb 18, 12:11 PM
    • #4
    • 6th Feb 18, 12:11 PM
    Sadly, MIL is in a home, having Dementia, and not being able to look after herself. She has never had much money, but she has about 18k in savings. She is 94 by the way.
    Originally posted by portchieboy


    The best place to start is the Altzheimer's forum - the posters there are very up to date with anything to do with care home fees etc.


    If your MIL has 18K savings, then she is part-funding. To the best of my knowledge, she should be contributing almost all of any pension etc income, and making a contribution towards the fees (which goes to reduce the amount paid by the local authority, not the top up fee). As her savings go down, eventually she will hit the lower threshold - which I think is about 14.5K - and won't have to pay out any more from her savings, although she will have to continue paying her pension.


    If she doesn't have a property to sell (or which could be used to arrange a deferred payment agreement), you will have to continue paying the top up fee or she will have to move to a new cheaper home which will accept the local authority payment without a top up. It might be that since she has been in the home for a while, you could persuade her current home to accept her on the local authority rate, but if they said no you couldn't force them to.


    You need to have a chat with the rest of the family, find out exactly what her financial position is now, talk to her social worker and the local authority to find out what they recommend, and make a decision on whether to carry on paying or try to arrange a move.
    • portchieboy
    • By portchieboy 6th Feb 18, 12:25 PM
    • 601 Posts
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    portchieboy
    • #5
    • 6th Feb 18, 12:25 PM
    • #5
    • 6th Feb 18, 12:25 PM
    Sorry, cannot find an Alzheimers forum?
    O would some power the giftie gie us to see ourselves as others see us.

    (O would some power the gift to give us to see ourselves as others see us
    .)

    Robert Burns
    • pmlindyloo
    • By pmlindyloo 6th Feb 18, 12:54 PM
    • 11,581 Posts
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    pmlindyloo
    • #6
    • 6th Feb 18, 12:54 PM
    • #6
    • 6th Feb 18, 12:54 PM
    May I suggest that you give this organisation a call. (Click on Support for helpline)

    https://www.independentage.org/news-media/press-releases/councils-flouting-new-rules-on-care-home-fees

    The regulations about 'top up' fees have been tightened considerably and it may be that the council acted illegally as regards your 'top up' fees.
    • p00hsticks
    • By p00hsticks 6th Feb 18, 6:33 PM
    • 6,255 Posts
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    p00hsticks
    • #7
    • 6th Feb 18, 6:33 PM
    • #7
    • 6th Feb 18, 6:33 PM
    Sorry, cannot find an Alzheimers forum?
    Originally posted by portchieboy
    I suspect that arielsmelody may be referring to the forums on the Altzeimers Society website, not a board on this forum

    https://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/
    • Spendless
    • By Spendless 6th Feb 18, 9:20 PM
    • 20,176 Posts
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    Spendless
    • #8
    • 6th Feb 18, 9:20 PM
    • #8
    • 6th Feb 18, 9:20 PM
    'Third party top up fees' There's precious little about it on this site and seemed to be a minefield finding out info. My parents were told they'd have to pay too, despite my Nan owning a property (I believe now they were incorrectly informed). It never made any sense to me either, why can't they pay their own fees.
    • Larac
    • By Larac 6th Feb 18, 9:38 PM
    • 823 Posts
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    Larac
    • #9
    • 6th Feb 18, 9:38 PM
    • #9
    • 6th Feb 18, 9:38 PM
    My Mum was self funding when she went into a CH. The contract I signed, confirmed that if my Mum ran out of money, the family would pay the top up fees - which is the difference between what the LA pays and what a self funder does. The CH she was in, was at the lower end of what you can pay in fees c800 a week and the top up for the family was in the region of another 120 every 4 weeks. If she had gone in to the CH where the weekly fees are 1500 a week - and believe me, they are around, the top up would be c2000 every 4 weeks. You need to be very clear, what is the contract and what your committed to. She sadly passed in November 2017 - but feel for anyone who goes through this.
    Last edited by Larac; 06-02-2018 at 9:40 PM.
    • SandraScarlett
    • By SandraScarlett 7th Feb 18, 7:03 PM
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    SandraScarlett
    When my late husband, who had Alzheimer's, had to go into a Care Home for his last few months, I spent hours reading the Government's very lengthy CRAG report, which goes into all the whys and wherefores of Care Home fees. If you Google it, it's online.


    Because Social Services had said that he should go into Care, the Home charged SS, and then I had to pay all his SRP, half his private pension, and more, to Social Services.


    The Care Home said I would have to pay top-up fees directly to them, but at that time, I discovered that it was actually illegal for them to charge more than had been agreed with the council.


    I don't know if the rules have changed, but it's worth the time to look into these things, as much as you possibly can, as mistakes can be made. One friend was told by the Council that she had to pay them her husband's SRP and all of his private pension, which is completely wrong.


    And if a person receives DLA, although they have to give up the care component, after 4 weeks in a Care Home, they can keep the mobility component indefinitely.


    Hope this helps.
    • Larac
    • By Larac 8th Feb 18, 11:15 AM
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    Larac
    I am not an expert but the Crag report got superceded by the Care Home Act 2014, which seems to give LA more flexibility on what they can now recover from families .
    • SandraScarlett
    • By SandraScarlett 8th Feb 18, 3:04 PM
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    SandraScarlett
    I am not an expert but the Crag report got superceded by the Care Home Act 2014, which seems to give LA more flexibility on what they can now recover from families .
    Originally posted by Larac

    You are probably right, as my late husband went into a Care Home in the summer of 2014, and died a few months later, so my information was based on the situation then.


    That's why I highlighted the bit about "at that time", regarding the top up fees. All I know is that the whole thing is a minefield, and incredibly stressful, at the very time when families are stressed out enough anyway.
    • pmlindyloo
    • By pmlindyloo 8th Feb 18, 3:25 PM
    • 11,581 Posts
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    pmlindyloo
    I am not an expert but the Crag report got superceded by the Care Home Act 2014, which seems to give LA more flexibility on what they can now recover from families .
    Originally posted by Larac
    Interesting article here:

    http://www.communitycare.co.uk/2016/09/29/questions-answered-choice-top-ups-care-act/
    Last edited by pmlindyloo; 08-02-2018 at 3:44 PM.
    • Larac
    • By Larac 8th Feb 18, 4:43 PM
    • 823 Posts
    • 512 Thanks
    Larac
    You are probably right, as my late husband went into a Care Home in the summer of 2014, and died a few months later, so my information was based on the situation then.


    That's why I highlighted the bit about "at that time", regarding the top up fees. All I know is that the whole thing is a minefield, and incredibly stressful, at the very time when families are stressed out enough anyway.
    Originally posted by SandraScarlett
    Totally agree -it is not very clear. What annoyed my family was as my Mum was self funding, she paid more than the LA rate. Care in the home was exactly the same, whether you were a LA or self funder. My Mum has now passed but the whole CH debacle left a very bad 'taste in the mouth'
    • teddysmum
    • By teddysmum 8th Feb 18, 5:32 PM
    • 9,044 Posts
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    teddysmum
    Totally agree -it is not very clear. What annoyed my family was as my Mum was self funding, she paid more than the LA rate. Care in the home was exactly the same, whether you were a LA or self funder. My Mum has now passed but the whole CH debacle left a very bad 'taste in the mouth'
    Originally posted by Larac
    Knowing that a self funder pays for themselves, in full, and also pays part for someone else, (besides contributions when working) is even worse when the person getting the freebie is someone who wasted their money or never paid into the system through choice .


    I can't understand, in a time of cutbacks ,why people with a mobility allowance are able to keep it when in care , because they have little use for it there.
    • SandraScarlett
    • By SandraScarlett 8th Feb 18, 10:47 PM
    • 3,921 Posts
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    SandraScarlett
    [QUOTE=teddysmum;73851531]Knowing that a self funder pays for themselves, in full, and also pays part for someone else, (besides contributions when working) is even worse when the person getting the freebie is someone who wasted their money or never paid into the system through choice .

    [QUOTE]


    And sadly, the self funder will find their fees increased by astronomical amounts, on a very regular basis, and just have to pay up.
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