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  • FIRST POST
    • youdontsay
    • By youdontsay 5th Feb 18, 6:19 PM
    • 69Posts
    • 51Thanks
    youdontsay
    Six year old ticket
    • #1
    • 5th Feb 18, 6:19 PM
    Six year old ticket 5th Feb 18 at 6:19 PM
    About a week ago I received a claim form telling me I was about to be taken to court for a ticket I allegedly received 6 years ago., and that £262 is payable by me.This was the first knowledge I have of this and have no recollection of it even happening.
    Over the last week I have scoured the internet and have read lots of advice I believe Im more limited as to what I can do because Excel who operate the car park are not a member of the BPA?
    I have also been to the Citizens advice bureau who I believe said that I was limited as to what I can do because court proceedings are already in the pipeline.
    I am quite frantic as I cannot pay this amount and even this morning as I was again searching on this site and various others, I received a letter from BW Legal who represent Excel to say I will be going to court.
    I rang BW legal to request the evidence and they have instructed me to contest the claim due to having no knowledge previously, and also to request the evidence myself.
    I think the most likely scenario is that the car may have been driven in and straight back out without parking as very few people use this particular car park as it is widely known in the area for its unfair practices.
    I have written the letter and sent it today, but is there anything else I should have done in order to get this turned around?
    The letter was worded as follows
    'I received a claim form from Northampton Courts approx a week ago, stating that I was being taken to court for an alleged parking offence. This is the first knowledge I have of this as the parking ticket was nearly six years old. There is an issue with postal services as there is a house nearby which has practically an identical address but, having scoured the internet for advice on this matter, I understand that there should have been many steps prior to this action, and I fail to believe that all correspondence would have gone astray. I request that you send me the evidence that you hold which has led you to believe a parking offence has been committed, without which this issue cannot go forward. Please send me the necessary evidence. Thank you'
    The date of the ticket was 12th Feb 2012, so actually just under six years.
    Last edited by youdontsay; 05-02-2018 at 10:32 PM. Reason: Wording error
Page 7
    • youdontsay
    • By youdontsay 24th Feb 18, 1:05 PM
    • 69 Posts
    • 51 Thanks
    youdontsay
    Six year old ticket
    So Ive scanned the forms as directed and was due to email them, following the above process, some time over the next few days Then today I received from B W Legal a copy of the Directions Questionnaire

    Im guessing that what this is the questionnaire that the courts sent to B W Legal and, as I will be emailing B W Legal a copy of my answers to the questionnaire, this is the copy of their answers to the questoinnaire?

    Their answers are Yes to mediation, Yes to C!, No to D2, TBC to D3 and No to E1,

    Im guessing I just place this in a file for court?
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 24th Feb 18, 1:06 PM
    • 35,134 Posts
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    Quentin
    Correct. .
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 24th Feb 18, 3:14 PM
    • 36,562 Posts
    • 82,821 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    So Ive scanned the forms as directed and was due to email them, following the above process, some time over the next few days Then today I received from B W Legal a copy of the Directions Questionnaire

    Im guessing that what this is the questionnaire that the courts sent to B W Legal and, as I will be emailing B W Legal a copy of my answers to the questionnaire, this is the copy of their answers to the questoinnaire?

    Their answers are Yes to mediation, Yes to C!, No to D2, TBC to D3 and No to E1,

    Im guessing I just place this in a file for court?
    Originally posted by youdontsay
    Your answers will be different to theirs. You don't want mediation, you don't want this heard on papers, you do want your day in court.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • youdontsay
    • By youdontsay 3rd Mar 18, 11:06 PM
    • 69 Posts
    • 51 Thanks
    youdontsay
    Six year old ticket
    So I have emailed the questionnaire regarding the six year old ticket and Im awaiting the court date I imagine now.

    As mentioned earlier, I have received a second PCN from very recently where I wasnt the driver and which occurred at the end of Jan 2018. I sent the appeal and have today received an email rejecting my appeal

    This is what they have to say
    We refer to your appeal in respect of the above Charge Notice (CN) received on *********.
    Having considered the points you have raised and reviewed our records, we are unable to accept your appeal. Our
    main reason(s) for this decision are as follows:
    The signs at the car park make it clear that the land is private property and that a Charge of £100 will be levied if
    vehicles park outside of the Terms and Conditions displayed. The signs state that a valid Pay & Display ticket must
    be purchased and clearly displayed in the vehicle parked. The above detailed vehicle was seen parked and
    displaying a ticket which had expired and was therefore invalid. The expiry time was clearly displayed on the front of
    the ticket purchased. Motorists should ensure that they check the expiry time before leaving their vehicle parked, as it
    is their responsibility to ensure that they are able to return to their vehicle before the stated time, or else to purchase
    more time if thought necessary. The vehicle parked after the expiry of time of the Pay & Display ticket purchased and
    you became liable for the Charge advertised.
    We note that you have declined to name the driver of your vehicle at the time of the incident in question. It is
    important that we make you aware that in this case we may pursue you as the registered keeper of the vehicle for
    the outstanding Charge, as per Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) .
    The notice sent to you clearly states: Please be warned: that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day
    after the Issue Date of this Notice, the amount of the unpaid Parking Charge specified in this Notice has not been
    paid in full and we do not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver, we will
    have the right to recover from the registered keeper, any unpaid balance of the Parking Charge. This Notice will be
    deemed to have been received by you on the second working day after the Issue Date stated above unless the
    contrary is proved.
    We have fully reviewed this case and we are satisfied that the Charge Notice was correctly issued. We are unable to
    accept the mitigating circumstances raised in your representations, your appeal is therefore rejected and the charge
    will stand; photographic evidence which supports this can be viewed at www.myparkingcharge.co.uk
    What you should do next. Either
    1. Pay the Charge Notice (CN): In order to settle the Charge, the payment of £60.00 to reach us by 16/03/2018 or
    £100.00 to reach us by 30/03/2018 must be made. Failure to pay this charge within the stated times, may result in
    Debt Recovery Action being taken and further costs up to an additional £60 being incurred.
    Payments can be made online at www.myparkingcharge.co.uk by following the links for "Pay Now", or over the
    phone by calling 0845 226 9138 by using a valid Credit or Debit Card.
    OR:
    2. Appeal to the Independent Appeals Services (IAS): If you believe this decision is incorrect, you are entitled to
    appeal to the IAS. In order to appeal, the IAS will need the following information (which is also contained in the
    subject header of this correspondence).

    Please could someone advise what the next step with this one is?

    Many thanks once more
    • Redx
    • By Redx 3rd Mar 18, 11:20 PM
    • 17,810 Posts
    • 22,435 Thanks
    Redx
    simple, IGNORE !!!

    come back within 6 years if you get a formal LBC or an MCOL

    DO NOT COME BACK ABOUT DEBT COLLECTOR LETTERS
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • youdontsay
    • By youdontsay 3rd Mar 18, 11:54 PM
    • 69 Posts
    • 51 Thanks
    youdontsay
    Six year old ticket
    simple, IGNORE !!!

    come back within 6 years if you get a formal LBC or an MCOL

    DO NOT COME BACK ABOUT DEBT COLLECTOR LETTERS
    Originally posted by Redx
    So just ignore anything and everything they send other than a formal LBC or MCOL on this one?

    And concentrate on sorting the six year old one I guess

    Many thanks
    • youdontsay
    • By youdontsay 16th Apr 18, 10:47 PM
    • 69 Posts
    • 51 Thanks
    youdontsay
    Six year old ticket
    So I have now received notice of the court date Its at the beginning of July and I have to forward my witness statement by the beginning of May Would this be the actual statement as written for me and forwarded previously? Have had the most hectic few months just past and this matter has kind of had to be on the back burner so I need to refresh my memory regarding all matters legal!
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 16th Apr 18, 10:52 PM
    • 35,134 Posts
    • 19,228 Thanks
    Quentin
    Now read up on this in the Newbies FAQ thread near the top of the forum. (#2)

    Advice covers Court process from the initial claim form right through to the hearing
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 16th Apr 18, 10:55 PM
    • 6,645 Posts
    • 5,829 Thanks
    KeithP
    So I have now received notice of the court date Its at the beginning of July and I have to forward my witness statement by the beginning of May Would this be the actual statement as written for me and forwarded previously? Have had the most hectic few months just past and this matter has kind of had to be on the back burner so I need to refresh my memory regarding all matters legal!
    Originally posted by youdontsay
    Wasn't it a Defence you filed earlier?

    A Witness Statement is something different.

    Probably best if you were to go back to post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ stick thread and read a bit there about Witness Statements.
    .
    • youdontsay
    • By youdontsay 19th Apr 18, 5:09 PM
    • 69 Posts
    • 51 Thanks
    youdontsay
    Six year old ticket
    Wasn't it a Defence you filed earlier?

    A Witness Statement is something different.

    Probably best if you were to go back to post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ stick thread and read a bit there about Witness Statements.
    Originally posted by KeithP
    Yes it was a defence. Thanks for the advice of reading witness statements. Im not sure how to write one for myself as I dont know which of the details apply to my case and which dont. It all sounds like gobbledegook to me, as Im sure it did to many people who do it for the first time. Actually Im hoping never ever to have to do this again, its the extra ball to keep in the air which none of us need!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Apr 18, 8:43 PM
    • 56,160 Posts
    • 69,833 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Wow that is defeatist.

    Please go back, and actually read a Witness Statement example from the NEWBIES thread.

    We know for a fact you cannot possibly have looked at one properly, as you said:
    I dont know which of the details apply to my case and which dont. It all sounds like gobbledegook to me,
    No-one who read a WS would say that. A WS says: ''I am xxx and this is what happened, and here's the evidence I want to use at the hearing'' (hardly difficult, hardly gobbledegook).

    No-one is saying you write your own from scratch. What we do here is show you ones to copy/adapt.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • youdontsay
    • By youdontsay 20th Apr 18, 7:07 AM
    • 69 Posts
    • 51 Thanks
    youdontsay
    Six year old ticket
    Wow that is defeatist.

    Please go back, and actually read a Witness Statement example from the NEWBIES thread.

    We know for a fact you cannot possibly have looked at one properly, as you said:


    No-one who read a WS would say that. A WS says: ''I am xxx and this is what happened, and here's the evidence I want to use at the hearing'' (hardly difficult, hardly gobbledegook).

    No-one is saying you write your own from scratch. What we do here is show you ones to copy/adapt.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    I have read the WS but dont understand the legal jargon Im only being honest about how I feel regarding this.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 20th Apr 18, 7:44 AM
    • 9,053 Posts
    • 8,719 Thanks
    The Deep
    If you do not understand anything try using google and it may become clear. Perhaps you can ask your MP to help, most MPs are noe fully aware of this scam.

    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    Last edited by The Deep; 20-04-2018 at 8:15 AM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • youdontsay
    • By youdontsay 20th Apr 18, 10:06 AM
    • 69 Posts
    • 51 Thanks
    youdontsay
    Six year old ticket
    If you do not understand anything try using google and it may become clear. Perhaps you can ask your MP to help, most MPs are noe fully aware of this scam.

    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    Originally posted by The Deep
    Thank you for your help. Its the legal talk I dont understand really. When I read through WS's there is mention of various reports and acts and I am trying to work my way through all the various points but sometimes its a long read and when finished, it seems it possibly doesnt even apply to my situation.
    The fact is that I didnt receive anything at all from anyone until I was issued with the intention to start court proceedings, some 6 years after the alleged offence. I received it just 7 days I believe prior to their time running out to deal with this (as I understand it).
    So a lot of what other WS are saying regards various communication they have had from their particular claimant doesnt apply to me.?
    I have emailed my local MP and didnt even receive an acknowledgement of my email

    Thank you again, Ive started putting a WS together, baby steps I think!
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 20th Apr 18, 10:27 AM
    • 2,270 Posts
    • 2,672 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Well then you dont include it!

    You tell the FACTS OF YOUR CASE, from whose vehicle it was on that day (Who the keeper was) until now

    In that you include that this case is from before POFA2012 Schedule 3 was enacted which means only the DRIVER was liable, and not you the keeper (assuming pre october 2012) - and you have no reason to recall who the driver was, 6 years ago.

    ANd so on.

    START WRITING - seriously. Start getting the *facts* down, in chronological order, and you will find it much easier. It gives youa skeleton to hang anything else on.
    • youdontsay
    • By youdontsay 21st Apr 18, 4:15 PM
    • 69 Posts
    • 51 Thanks
    youdontsay
    Six year old ticket
    So Ive been burning the midnight oil as suggested and come up with a rough draft of a witness statement. Im sure it will need polishing and Im willing to add points and take some away but, at the moment, this is possibly a skeleton of a WS



    I, ****************** of **************, *********, ***********, **** *** am the defendant in this case.


    1. The facts in this statement come from my personal knowledge. Where they are not within my own knowledge there are true to the best of my information and belief

    2. I am not liable to the Claimant for the sum claimed, or any amount at all and this is my Witness Statement in support of my defence as already filed.

    3. I assert that I am the registered keeper of the vehicle in question in this case. I was not the driver.

    4. The alleged offence occurred some six years ago. The first correspondence received by myself was just 2 weeks prior to the six year deadline for the Claimant to pursue this matter legally. There is an occasional issue with mail, due to a nearby residence being named practically identically to my own address. But I fail to believe that all the required paperwork during a six year period would have gone astray For this reason I believe that the Claimant has not complied with the necessary procedures.


    5. The claimant submits that the defendant is the responsible person in charge of the vehicle which has incurred the charges referred to This is denied as the Claimant was not there and has no knowledge of who was driving on any occasion. However, I do have knowledge and attest that I was not the driver.

    6. The reason for my certainty that I was not the driver is that the car park in question has long since held the reputation of being an area where rogue car park operators do their business. Numerous people I know have fallen foul in this place, my own pastor and my late father-in-law to name just two. For this reason, the car park, once well used, resembles something of a ghost town. A very large area in a prime position to shops, will typically see 6 or 7 cars parked there, obviously by some people who have found a way round this rogue system, or who dont mind paying exorbitant sums of money to the Claimant. I have not used this car park myself for over 10 years and find myself walking long distances on my rare visits to this town, rather than go through the tedious, stressful and unfair process of proving innocence following the claim of being guilty.

    7 Even though photographic evidence has been requested from the Claimant, none has been provided to date


    8 In order to demonstrate that the driver(s) on these occasions failed to pay & display, the Claimant should have evidenced that, of course. Where are the photos of the dashboard showing no P&D ticket displayed? Failing that, as this is an ANPR site, where are the system records showing no payment made on these days? They have not even supplied lists of the VRNs input by drivers on those days, e.g. showing a mismatched payment, wrong VRN or no entry at all that corresponds with this vehicle.


    9 I also point out to the presiding Judge that the Claimant has not supplied any evidence at all that the alleged contraventions even occurred. ANPR camera photos merely show a vehicle arriving and leaving. All vehicles will have been recorded thus (assuming their VRNs were captured). All vehicles, including those whose drivers paid and displayed.


    10 I am an unrepresented consumer who has never attended the County Court before and was not even the driver so I have no knowledge of the events, dates, or signage terms. I strongly object to this Claimant at the eleventh hour pursuing me as having committed a parking offence


    11. This case is from before POFA2012 Schedule 3 was enacted which means only the DRIVER was liable, and not myself, the keeper, and I have no reason to recall who the driver was, particularly after such a long time has lapsed.

    12. Conclusion – no evidence of contravention and the Particulars lack any basis for a claim

    13. The Court is invited to dismiss this Claim, and to allow my wasted costs which will be submitted separately and in a timely manner, depending upon whether a hearing takes place. I firmly believe that to pursue me as registered keeper when the Claimant admits they have no such right, and to submit such incoherent particulars and lacking ‘evidence’ is wholly unreasonable and vexatious.
    Last edited by youdontsay; 21-04-2018 at 4:18 PM. Reason: To add to post
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 21st Apr 18, 11:36 PM
    • 56,160 Posts
    • 69,833 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    11. This case is from before POFA2012 Schedule 3
    should be
    11. This case is from before alleged parking event pre-dates the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4
    That's a good first draft. Now you just need to add reference to the evidence and cases you will be relying on, e.g.:

    - Excel v Lamoureux
    - Excel v Smith (on appeal)

    which are both shown as court transcripts in the Parking Prankster's case law. They help to make it clear even to a clueless Judge, that a keeper can't be held liable outwith Schedule 4 (and yours pre-dates that law).
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • youdontsay
    • By youdontsay 22nd Apr 18, 10:44 PM
    • 69 Posts
    • 51 Thanks
    youdontsay
    simple, IGNORE !!!

    come back within 6 years if you get a formal LBC or an MCOL

    DO NOT COME BACK ABOUT DEBT COLLECTOR LETTERS
    Originally posted by Redx
    Ive received a 'Notice of Intended Court Proceedings' Not the same thing as an LBC or MCOL Im guessing? Should I ignore?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 22nd Apr 18, 11:17 PM
    • 6,645 Posts
    • 5,829 Thanks
    KeithP
    Ive received a 'Notice of Intended Court Proceedings' Not the same thing as an LBC or MCOL Im guessing? Should I ignore?
    Originally posted by youdontsay
    Who from?

    How many incidents are you trying to progress here?

    Before this post, yesterday you were writing a Witness Statement.

    It is going to be really confusing trying to deal with two parking events in the same thread.
    .
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 22nd Apr 18, 11:20 PM
    • 56,160 Posts
    • 69,833 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Ive received a 'Notice of Intended Court Proceedings' Not the same thing as an LBC or MCOL Im guessing? Should I ignore?
    Originally posted by youdontsay
    No. See post #19 here for that tedious threatogram:

    http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=118833&st=0

    All you need to do is search here or pepipoo and you find a hundred versions discussed already.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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