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  • FIRST POST
    • Nicksy1
    • By Nicksy1 5th Feb 18, 2:42 PM
    • 19Posts
    • 2Thanks
    Nicksy1
    Reasonably unfair?
    • #1
    • 5th Feb 18, 2:42 PM
    Reasonably unfair? 5th Feb 18 at 2:42 PM
    To all those experienced people out there, personally we think the ticketing of my vehicle was unfair, but would a 'reasonable'person think it is unfair...?

    We have no qualms with the parking company Total Parking Solutions, the attendant did their job as instructed, we have a problem with the fairness of the ticket as instructed by the landowner.

    The driver works on an NHS health campus with 2 trusts and a couple of other health companies, in the middle of countryside. The main Trust owns most of the land and charges both staff and patients for parking. The Trust for which the driver works rents some land from them for parking and also charges staff to pay for the car park lease and for repairs/upkeep.

    So about 9 months ago the onsite nursery closed down. It had a couple of permit staff parking bays and a demarcated on-road drop off area. The premises is vacant and actually starting to become dilapidated (the fences used to keep the playground secure are disappearing one-by-one). Since the word got out about the closure non-nursery staff have been parking there every day without recourse.

    Recently the staff car parks for the smaller (renting) Trust are over full with people parking dangerously within car parks and outside of them on double yellows etc. One day the driver came to work and one car park was showing full with obvious spaces inside and the car park without a barrier limit had cars outside of bays. As the driver passed the vacant nursery there were a few empty parking spaces, so they parked there.

    When the driver finished work there was a windscreen ticket for failure to display permit and being parked for at least an hour.

    The ticket cost is >3 months the cost of the staff permit. There are no rightful permit holders, apparently for the 2 weeks before this ticket the staff that usually park there were warned to stop parking else face fine but they didn't email the whole trust to say stop parking there so the driver didn't know that the signs were being enforced otherwise would have gone to see security or tried a patient pay and display. Noone has been put out by the driver parking there.

    What is the concensus, should we ignore, pay or fight. We would be happy to offer the patient pay and display amount!
    Last edited by Nicksy1; 27-03-2018 at 8:38 PM.
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 5th Feb 18, 2:49 PM
    • 17,789 Posts
    • 22,420 Thanks
    Redx
    • #2
    • 5th Feb 18, 2:49 PM
    • #2
    • 5th Feb 18, 2:49 PM
    the "back story" is irrelevant , the driver parked without permission

    most private parking tickets are "unfair" which is why the MP`s debated it in the houses of parliament last friday

    the NEWBIES sticky thread tells you what to do about this, and the choices are "pay or fight" - your choice

    the PPC have issued an invoice and could take it to court within 6 years

    so it is not about what the reasonable people here think, its about you going through the motions if you decide not to pay it

    please read and follow the information in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread near the top of this forum
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 5th Feb 18, 2:57 PM
    • 9,029 Posts
    • 8,701 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #3
    • 5th Feb 18, 2:57 PM
    • #3
    • 5th Feb 18, 2:57 PM
    Unfair, looks like a penalty imo, read this

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/

    and watch the debate here

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Computersaysno
    • By Computersaysno 5th Feb 18, 3:02 PM
    • 928 Posts
    • 719 Thanks
    Computersaysno
    • #4
    • 5th Feb 18, 3:02 PM
    • #4
    • 5th Feb 18, 3:02 PM
    The truth is most of your 'questions' and comments are irrelevant....it's not about 'reasonable' or otherwise....it's all about [and I paraphrase here...]scum trying to get your money.




    Some PPCs are fair and above board, some are pure scum.....


    Personally I never have and never will pay the PPC scum a penny.




    In fact if a car park is using PPC scum I won't even pay the 1 or 2 parking charge...they don't deserve my money for using the pondlife that they choose to do business with....I suspect I'm not the only one that does this.
    Welcome to the world of 'Protect the brand at the cost of free speech'
    • Nicksy1
    • By Nicksy1 5th Feb 18, 3:21 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Nicksy1
    • #5
    • 5th Feb 18, 3:21 PM
    • #5
    • 5th Feb 18, 3:21 PM
    Thanks everyone, I posted this because reading the MSE front page it said about if a reasonable person could think it unfair it's worth fighting, else pay up. Our judgement is biased that's why we asked for other opinions.
    Last edited by Nicksy1; 27-03-2018 at 6:34 PM.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 5th Feb 18, 3:31 PM
    • 17,789 Posts
    • 22,420 Thanks
    Redx
    • #6
    • 5th Feb 18, 3:31 PM
    • #6
    • 5th Feb 18, 3:31 PM
    the MSE advice is incorrect and out of date

    by all means ask the uninformed persons that wrote their "front end" articles, but only last week M Lewis was on tv spouting rubbish about the private parking charge issues on his tv programme

    but as you asked us (the great unwashed that deal with these issues on a daily basis on the public forum and not the MSE magazine pages) you get the honest and unabridged versions of the true reality of this disgusting business

    watch the MP,s talk about it last friday on that catchup link

    do some research into the INDIGO versus NHS staff at the University Hospital in Cardiff last year which went to court

    your issue pales into insignificance compared to rhose poor and duped staff in wales (I dont mean that unkindly, its important to you but not as bad as their issues)

    fight or pay , we say fight , but know the score because as said earlier its about extracting the maximum amount of money from your wallet or purse, nothing to do with parking per se

    its modern day highway robbery, so I am surprised it wasnt D!ck! Turpin Parking Co LTD that issued the ticket
    Last edited by Redx; 05-02-2018 at 3:37 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Ralph-y
    • By Ralph-y 5th Feb 18, 3:33 PM
    • 2,571 Posts
    • 3,200 Thanks
    Ralph-y
    • #7
    • 5th Feb 18, 3:33 PM
    • #7
    • 5th Feb 18, 3:33 PM
    Oh !!!!!! ......

    please take NO notice of the MSE post ! it is plain wrong in so many ways

    forum members have pleaded with MSE to remove / correct it with out success .....

    you need to read the newbies thread for all the correct up to date information

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4816822

    have a quick read of the appropriate sections ... and come back if you need more help

    good luck

    Ralph
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Feb 18, 11:28 PM
    • 56,149 Posts
    • 69,807 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #8
    • 5th Feb 18, 11:28 PM
    • #8
    • 5th Feb 18, 11:28 PM
    Thanks everyone, I posted this because reading the MSE front page it said about if a reasonable person could think it unfair it's worth fighting, else pay up. My judgement is biased that's why I asked for other opinions.
    Originally posted by Nicksy1
    MSE's article is awful, gives bad advice, dangerous to wealth, and they are wrong.

    MPs have this despicable industry sussed better than MSE does:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5787731

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    HTH
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • ixworth
    • By ixworth 6th Feb 18, 9:40 AM
    • 52 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    ixworth
    • #9
    • 6th Feb 18, 9:40 AM
    • #9
    • 6th Feb 18, 9:40 AM
    In my opinion PPCs have lost all right to consider fairness or not as, even when presented with obviously unfair tickets, they will typically reject any appeal, as will their buddies at POPLA.


    Read the newbies advice thread, and follow the advice there to attack this ticket.


    Don't admit who was driving, appeal to the PPC and POPLA on technical grounds rather than fairness, ignore debt collectors, defend any court case rigorously and watch the cowards run away (usually).
    • cgh01
    • By cgh01 6th Feb 18, 11:17 AM
    • 16 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    cgh01
    Was this NTD issued at CCC hospital trust?
    When did the driver receive the screen ticket?
    If the registered keeper has not appealed to TPS already, then an appeal should be raised on their web page www.totalparking.co.uk/online-payments/appeal

    Use the pre-written template appeal as listed in the NEWBIES thread( blue text under the heading ""Template appeal for BPA or IPC members - copy this wording into the online appeal box::"")

    Send the appeal as is: making sure you include the registered keepers name and address.

    Good luck.
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 6th Feb 18, 11:21 AM
    • 4,087 Posts
    • 5,791 Thanks
    Half_way
    Are you familiar with the NHS's own guidelines on parking?
    If not then Google NHS parking principles
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • Nicksy1
    • By Nicksy1 6th Feb 18, 1:16 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Nicksy1
    Appeal is what landowner's representative has suggested, whilst also telling our party today the staff car parks were all full from 10am leaving nowhere for other shift staff to park. He apologised repeatedly and said top level management wanted to crack down. Think they are beyond approach.

    We are getting confused with all the info, some of what you've said here contradicts what we have read in the newbie thread.

    Do we appeal before the 14 days or at day 26. If they send notice to keeper does that restart the discount period? Is rather pay the lower amount than full amount, but would rather pay nothing as not an inconsiderate or dangerous parker (from the company's website, which also quotes a lower five than the signage)
    Last edited by Nicksy1; 27-03-2018 at 6:35 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 6th Feb 18, 1:34 PM
    • 56,149 Posts
    • 69,807 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Do i appeal before the 14 days or at day 26.
    NEWBIES thread tells you when! And it tells you why NOT to look at the 14 days!

    DO NOT add anything implying who parked. Use the template.

    If they send notice to keeper does that restart the discount period?
    No, it does not, and there is no discount worth looking at. We offer 100% discount!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • waamo
    • By waamo 6th Feb 18, 1:47 PM
    • 2,990 Posts
    • 3,853 Thanks
    waamo
    Appeal is what landowner's representative has suggested, whilst also telling me today the staff car parks were all full from 10am leaving nowhere for other shift staff to park. He apologised repeatedly and said top level management wanted to crack down. Think they are beyond approach.

    I do get confused with all the info, some of what you've said here contradicts what I have read in the newbie thread.

    Do i appeal before the 14 days or at day 26. If they send notice to keeper does that restart the discount period? Is rather pay the lower amount than full amount, but would rather pay nothing as not an inconsiderate or dangerous parker (from the company's website, which also quotes a lower five than the signage)
    Originally posted by Nicksy1
    You are making the mistake of thinking you are dealing with reasonable people if you think there is a discount.

    We have seen many occasions where the mythical discount disappears for reasons best known to the ppc.

    These people want your money and as much of it as they can get. That is all they exist to do. They are cash collection companies and will find strange ways to bump up what they say you owe.

    Follow the advice in the Newbies thread and you pay nothing.
    This space for hire.
    • cgh01
    • By cgh01 6th Feb 18, 2:10 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 23 Thanks
    cgh01
    If there are other members of staff at this NHS site(C.C.C I believe?) suffering from "TPS" ticketing, direct them to here for advice .
    We do not want to see a repeat of the Cardiff hospital debacle, to many permits issued to staff for to few parking spaces ( and staff paying 15 to 20 a month for NO place to park).
    • Redx
    • By Redx 6th Feb 18, 4:24 PM
    • 17,789 Posts
    • 22,420 Thanks
    Redx
    bear in mind that the situation being described is TWO tickets being issued

    one on a windscreen to a driver on the day

    the other arrives or should arrive under POFA2012 between day29 and day 56 and goes to the keeper after the PPC have paid the DVLA for their data

    the driver and the keeper are 2 different entities

    the day 26 is the appeal sent by the KEEPER having been handed the windscreen notice issued to the driver some weeks previously

    it is important to keep the entities separate with only the KEEPER details to be known by the PPC, THE ENTITIES ARE (OR COULD BE)

    the OWNER

    the REGISTERED KEEPER

    the KEEPER

    the DRIVER

    so they could be 4 different entities , they could be all one and the same single entity , but blabbermouths cost themselves money if they reveal the associations and even worse when they blab about who was driving (in most cases)
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 6th Feb 18, 4:40 PM
    • 9,029 Posts
    • 8,701 Thanks
    The Deep
    Get evetyone who has been ticketed to watch this


    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41


    and then complain to their MP.


    You can bid these scammers a soldier's farewell if you unite against them
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 6th Feb 18, 7:12 PM
    • 10,400 Posts
    • 9,647 Thanks
    Guys Dad

    So about 9 months ago the nursery closed down. It had 2 permit staff spaces and about 9 drop off spaces. The premises is vacant. Since the word got out my colleagues have been parking there every day without recourse. Recently our car parks are over full and people park ridiculously and on double yellows etc. One day I came to work and one car park was showing full with obvious spaces inside, but we are not allowed to swipe the exit barrier to gain access (threat of disciplinary). I may have been able to get onto another car park, but as I passed this vacant premises there were a few spaces, so i parked there.
    Originally posted by Nicksy1
    Are there any signs up that cover this Nursery land in particular? This might be the key to getting off quite easily.

    Obviously the nursery has its own parking spaces (from your post). And the Parking Forum mantra is "Where there's parking, you should find notices". So, were they still there or have they disappeared or been replaced?
    • Nicksy1
    • By Nicksy1 6th Feb 18, 9:00 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Nicksy1
    Sign, about 7 foot above ground says: Hospital Trust Name,
    NURSERY PARKING ONLY,
    PRIVATE PROPERTY in huge letters
    Then much smaller underneath states the parking company and charge details and that they may request details from DVLA (the nursery is still closed fences now collapsing so playground is not secure)

    The driver was told by the guy that gives out the renting Trust's permits to email him and they might use this case in talks with the other Trust over more parking spaces. However, we think this email could get to the parking company via the other Trust to use against us
    Last edited by Nicksy1; 27-03-2018 at 6:37 PM.
    • Nicksy1
    • By Nicksy1 6th Feb 18, 9:29 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Nicksy1
    Would it be wise to alter the appeal template to quote the governments "NHS patient, visitor and staff car parking principles" guidance document, where the charge is unfair under clause 5, that the driver had legitimate reason to be parking (staff) where the car is necessary as the driver lives 15 min drive or 1h30min public transport journey, the driver is not a persistent flautor of regulations eg blocking entrances, the period of grace allowed was 1 hour, but working hours are 3.75 hours+ before a meal break when the car could try to be moved. Also that the hospital website is inconsistent with the signage.
    Last edited by Nicksy1; 27-03-2018 at 6:39 PM.
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