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  • FIRST POST
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 5th Feb 18, 12:04 AM
    • 37,095Posts
    • 156,273Thanks
    silvercar
    • #1
    • 5th Feb 18, 12:04 AM
    5th Feb 18 at 12:04 AM
    There is a land registry rep who regularly visits, but generally to the housing board and to the land registry thread in particular.

    This thread is on the forum feedback board, I doubt he strays this far from home!
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debate House Prices & the Economy, House Buying, Renting & Selling, Mortgages and Endowments, In My Home incl DIY, Overseas Holidays & Student boards.
    I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly.
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of moneysavingexpert.com.
Page 1
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 6th Feb 18, 9:06 AM
    • 17,171 Posts
    • 15,477 Thanks
    AdrianC
    • #2
    • 6th Feb 18, 9:06 AM
    • #2
    • 6th Feb 18, 9:06 AM
    Regulars on here will know the story
    Originally posted by DAKOTA45
    Your thread has been moved (it seems) to the house buying/renting/selling forum for obvious reasons. I don't know about others here, but it doesn't seem even vaguely familiar to me. Looking through your post history does not enlighten me, so I - and others here - can only go on what's in this post.

    A creditor is within his rights to make an application for a Charging Order to secure his debt.

    If the debt is huge, as mine was, there is no alternative other than to sell your home.
    No problem so far. You owe money, your creditor is entitled to ensure you pay.

    So you put it on the market, and meanwhile the creditor sets about getting security for the debt, but he needs more time to make his application for a CO, and he is aware that you have a buyer and are close to completing.

    Normally, it would be tough luck for him
    Not at all.

    All the charging order does is ensure that you cannot sell the property without covering that debt. If the CO is not in place, you can sell the property, but you still have to cover that debt. You now have the cash to do so, but the only way it's his "tough luck" is if you have no intention of settling that debt. In that case, he still has legal routes open to him to enforce the debt - and they're only going to increase the total cost to you.

    If you were intending to repay him on sale, then causing the sale to collapse simply delays his repayment.

    but not in my case, because the creditor was prepared to commit a crime in order to secure his CO.

    What he does is this; he approaches your purchaser and attempts to extort 50k 'compensation' from them
    So somebody is prepared to lie and "extort", which is - as you say - illegal, but that's a problem with the legal system? How? Because it hasn't made crimes illegal...? <scratches head>

    based upon the deliberate, calculated and malicious lie that your septic tank has damaged his land and that if they go ahead with their purchase, he will take them to court!
    If the buyer's stupid enough to believe that, then...

    Perhaps a more likely reason is that they've realised that your PIF did not declare this obvious pre-existing conflict with your neighbour?

    Is the debt relating to the septic tank and ground contamination? How far has the debt gone? I presume that a court has awarded in favour of the claimant, your creditor?

    The purchasers run for the hills and your sale collapses, leaving you without the means to pay your debts including, ironically, your liability to the creditor.
    You can still sell the property. Just not to that potential buyer... Auction may be the easiest and quickest route.

    So he starts sending distressing threats that he will apply for Orders For Sale
    But you are willing to sell, so how can being ordered to sell make any difference?

    My lenders, meanwhile, send notices of repossession
    Why? Have you not been paying the mortgage? This is not your creditor's fault. If you have sufficient equity to cover your debt, it may simply be easiest to allow the lender to repossess the property, and make the sale their problem.

    I'm just wondering at the actual legality of obtaining a CO by criminal means.
    The answer is in the question... But did he obtain it by "criminal means"? Or did he merely gain the time to obtain it legitimately because of the collapse of the sale?

    Either way, it makes no difference - you still owe the debt.

    This is still not quite over... now awaiting a hearing to see if I can claim any damages and most importantly, whether they will be enough to remove the charge from the property.which has also clocked up 6k in interest
    The charging order does not itself grant interest. You owe the interest because you have not settled your debt. The charging order merely ensures that you do settle it when you sell the property.

    From what you've said in this post, it seems to me that you are shouting at the moon, and in denial about the true cause of your problems. Where a previous thread was indeed lost in the recent spamfest, then giving sufficient details to enlighten others about the backstory is essential. Psychic, we aren't. I guess you're referring to the 98 page 2009-2015 "Charging Order? The myth" thread that google cache shows as being in the DFW forum...?

    For the benefit of others, selected highlights from the cached version of that appear to be...

    Ahh yes..that was the one!!

    As you know, they got a JO for the standard form k restriction against my property and then more than 4 weeks later made an application to get a 14 day caution added to it, which resulted in a second JO against me.

    I am sick of their dirty tricks!!!8230; it has been a feature throughout the period of litigation with documents not being served on me..rules waived or broken, etc., they even emailed their client's legal costs of more than 40k to me 12 hours before the hearing.. all done to make sure I didn't sleep before I gave evidence...I had no idea that a few months legal advice for what was a very simple case would amount to anywhere near that much!! Of course, they put a 100% uplift on top because they say they had entered into a CFA!!!8230; neither I or the court were ever made aware of that fact!!

    Anyway, I applied for set aside and will be saying that the 2nd charge is unlawful and invalid as they were out of time when they made the (without notice) application, and that in any case they should have made it clear that they would be seeking to modify the CO prior to, or at the hearing for the final CO, or in any case up to two weeks after, CPR 28 4.2(2) The court will assume for the purpose of any later application that a party who did not appeal and who made no application to vary within 14 days of service of the order containing the directions was content that they were correct in the circumstances then existing.

    Probably wasting my time but I just can't let them treat people in this way...

    I don't even feel that I should owe the costs as the judgement creditor did not 'win' his case as such!!!8230; I had to give up at the hearing because I am deaf and was unable to participate under cross examination and the vile judge refused to adjourn.

    Definitely a violation of my rights under ECHR act...
    by DAKOTA45
    1k of debt to make someone homeless is totally ridiculous!!

    I am guessing BL's next dirty trick will be something along those lines!!!8230;
    I can't imagine they are going to sit back and wait.

    I have no assets whatsoever and am on pension credits. An OFS would not only make me homeless but would disadvantage my husband who has always paid the mortgage.

    A recent survey valued the property as being worth a bit less than we owe our lender, so that's good, I suppose.

    I wonder if the debt would still exist in a case where there is no equity!!!8230; and no likelihood of it ever being paid?
    by DAKOTA45
    Yes!!!8230; will do!

    The Judge mentioned that the costs were 'well in excess of what would have been expected as it was a very simple case' and reduced it from 39k to 24k, but still allowed them to claim the 100% success fee to which I believe they were not entitled as I doubt they were able to get one of those before the cut off for CFAs on 01/04/13.. They certainly didn't submit any evidence of the CFA to me or the Court.
    There was also a serious error & their case should have been dismissed as they were not able to rely on the Land Registry rule cited.
    I appealed after the hearing but the Judge refused saying that it was obviously their 'intention to rely upon the rule', even though they had not made any statement whatsoever to that effect..!

    The dispute was over a strip of land worth about 2k! The Judge visited the site and said at the hearing that the land was virtually worthless!!!8230; the fact that the neighbour clocked up nearly 40k worth of legal costs against such a low value is, in itself indicative of the unfairness of it all!!!8230; he didn't even want the land and gave it to another neighbour just to spite me!

    The Judge knew I had a valid case, too, but was so biased you wouldn't believe it!!!8230;

    Stitched up like a kipper!!!8230; which is why I am fighting to the death.
    by DAKOTA45
    Hi Eggbox!!!8230; thanks for the post.

    Whilst the valuation was low because the property is in need of much renovation, the location is extremely desirable, and I managed to sell the property for a figure of more than 100k in excess of the value, to a cash buyer last June, but the neighbour found out and threatened our buyer causing them to withdraw from the sale.
    No doubt, my neighbour will have informed BL of this fact.
    However, I was told by someone who knows a bit about such things, I have a right to counter sue the neighbour for the loss of the sale!!!8230; Tort of Interference..
    I had the counterclaim in place when I went to the County court for the Final CO hearing, but the judge was unable to adjudicate!!!8230;I wasn't aware that I would need to take it to a higher court because of the amount!!!8230; so the charge went ahead.
    I would love to turn things around, but can't afford the legal advice.. this has been my downfall all along, unfortunately!!!8230;

    I suppose if the judge was nicer and seeing as I was representing myself and didn't know the rules, he could have adjourned instead of slapping the CO on!!!8230; but I don't seem to come across any fair Judges!!!8230; they suck up to the lawyers and legally represented people!!!8230; they hate LIPs.
    by DAKOTA45
    Exactly!!!8230; the stupid man has done himself no favours as I was half inclined at the time to pay him off, even though I don't agree with the amount, but it would have ben worth it because this is so stressful!!!8230;
    I should be able to use it against him as there was definitely an intention to cause a breach of contract...
    by DAKOTA45
    When my survey was done, a year ago, it didn't seem to take into consideration the amazing riverside location and just quoted the market value for a shabby 2 bed bungalow with subsidence!!!8230; But my buyer liked the location so much, they were prepared to offer well in excess of the market value.

    I would need a cash buyer though because it would be difficult for anyone to get a mortgage on it given that it is in such a bad state of repair and of non standard construction...
    by DAKOTA45
    I leave it to others to put their own interpretation on what's in - and not in - those posts, but I know what comes to my mind reading them.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 6th Feb 18, 3:07 PM
    • 43,791 Posts
    • 51,758 Thanks
    G_M
    • #3
    • 6th Feb 18, 3:07 PM
    • #3
    • 6th Feb 18, 3:07 PM
    So

    1) you owe someone money but haven't paid them, and want to avoid paying them

    2) they've tried to protect themselves, and guarantee payment of what hey are owed in the future, via a Charging Order

    3) you tried to sell before the CO was in place, in order to avoid paying what you owe

    4) Your buyers pulled out, perhaps after hearing of this ongoing dispute, or because it was unclear how their sewage was going to be dealt with, or because of some 'threat' which seems unclear

    5) the CO was then placed on your property. So far as I can see, this was done because you owe money, not placed there illegally

    6) meanwhile the interest owed on your debt increased, as interest always does when debts are unpaid

    Solution: Either pay what you owe and keep the property, or arrange to sell the property to cover the debt
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 6th Feb 18, 3:14 PM
    • 2,970 Posts
    • 2,935 Thanks
    Comms69
    • #4
    • 6th Feb 18, 3:14 PM
    • #4
    • 6th Feb 18, 3:14 PM
    I agree something is dreadfully wrong with the legal system. The OP's actions are totally unacceptable.
    • inkiboo
    • By inkiboo 6th Feb 18, 4:24 PM
    • 64 Posts
    • 30 Thanks
    inkiboo
    • #5
    • 6th Feb 18, 4:24 PM
    • #5
    • 6th Feb 18, 4:24 PM
    So

    1) you owe someone money but haven't paid them, and want to avoid paying them

    2) they've tried to protect themselves, and guarantee payment of what hey are owed in the future, via a Charging Order

    3) you tried to sell before the CO was in place, in order to avoid paying what you owe

    4) Your buyers pulled out, perhaps after hearing of this ongoing dispute, or because it was unclear how their sewage was going to be dealt with, or because of some 'threat' which seems unclear

    5) the CO was then placed on your property. So far as I can see, this was done because you owe money, not placed there illegally

    6) meanwhile the interest owed on your debt increased, as interest always does when debts are unpaid

    Solution: Either pay what you owe and keep the property, or arrange to sell the property to cover the debt
    Originally posted by G_M
    A perfect summary of the OP's awful behavior.
    Smile and be happy, things can usually get worse!
    • DAKOTA45
    • By DAKOTA45 9th Feb 18, 7:25 AM
    • 502 Posts
    • 49 Thanks
    DAKOTA45
    • #6
    • 9th Feb 18, 7:25 AM
    • #6
    • 9th Feb 18, 7:25 AM
    There is a land registry rep who regularly visits, but generally to the housing board and to the land registry thread in particular.

    This thread is on the forum feedback board, I doubt he strays this far from home!
    Originally posted by silvercar
    Eh?! I think you'll find LRR appears on this actual thread.
    Oh, but that's because I posted this elsewhere and the contents have been hijacked and pasted up on here. Byeee!!!
    Last edited by DAKOTA45; 09-02-2018 at 7:28 AM.
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 9th Feb 18, 9:08 AM
    • 19,896 Posts
    • 15,602 Thanks
    agrinnall
    • #7
    • 9th Feb 18, 9:08 AM
    • #7
    • 9th Feb 18, 9:08 AM
    Eh?! I think you'll find LRR appears on this actual thread.
    Oh, but that's because I posted this elsewhere and the contents have been hijacked and pasted up on here. Byeee!!!
    Originally posted by DAKOTA45
    Your thread hasn't been hijacked, it has been moved to the appropriate board. And deleting your OP is a pointless exercise when it's been quoted in other posts. I think you need to get your head around how forums actually work.
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 9th Feb 18, 9:34 AM
    • 15,313 Posts
    • 42,698 Thanks
    moneyistooshorttomention
    • #8
    • 9th Feb 18, 9:34 AM
    • #8
    • 9th Feb 18, 9:34 AM
    So do you or don't you want help dealing with the matter appropriately - ie in accordance with the law and your responsibilities?
    ***************
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