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  • FIRST POST
    • capital0ne
    • By capital0ne 2nd Feb 18, 6:55 PM
    • 524Posts
    • 254Thanks
    capital0ne
    Are you one of the ten millionaire families?
    • #1
    • 2nd Feb 18, 6:55 PM
    Are you one of the ten millionaire families? 2nd Feb 18 at 6:55 PM
    One in ten families are millionaires if they include assets such as their homes and their pension pots, official figures revealed yesterday.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2242560/How-households-worth-1m-Property-pension-pots-push-wealth-higher.html

    I'm guessing everyone on this board is one of the ten. Doing well aren't we!
Page 2
    • TheShape
    • By TheShape 3rd Feb 18, 7:51 PM
    • 1,293 Posts
    • 1,103 Thanks
    TheShape
    If we're playfully splitting hairs about inadvertently misworded phrases, let's go back to the thread title

    Are you one of the ten millionaire families?

    Surely there must be more than ten?
    Originally posted by redux
    The OP clearly made a mess of the thread title.

    And if the OP is seriously guessing that everyone on this board is a member of the 'one in ten' families that are 'paper' millionaires, they obviously aren't reading many of the threads.
    • Peelerfart
    • By Peelerfart 3rd Feb 18, 9:09 PM
    • 1,916 Posts
    • 1,675 Thanks
    Peelerfart

    And if the OP is seriously guessing that everyone on this board is a member of the 'one in ten' families that are 'paper' millionaires, they obviously aren't reading many of the threads.
    Originally posted by TheShape
    Assuming you are correct, and that is a question for the OP, what logic/reasoning applies?
    I've posted on many boards none of which has, unfortunately made me rich. I'm here simply to make the most of my pittance :-)
    Space available for rent
    • Ray Singh-Blue
    • By Ray Singh-Blue 4th Feb 18, 9:18 AM
    • 397 Posts
    • 518 Thanks
    Ray Singh-Blue
    If you value defined benefit pensions in the same way as the Office for National Statistics, then you can be a pension millionaire even if you are as poor as a church mouse in real life.

    For example if you were due a pension of 29K per year, and your spouse was due a pension of 19K per year, that would make you a millionaire household. Even if you did not have two beans to rub together otherwise.
    • andy001
    • By andy001 4th Feb 18, 9:30 AM
    • 42 Posts
    • 17 Thanks
    andy001
    If you value defined benefit pensions in the same way as the Office for National Statistics, then you can be a pension millionaire even if you are as poor as a church mouse in real life.

    For example if you were due a pension of 29K per year, and your spouse was due a pension of 19K per year, that would make you a millionaire household. Even if you did not have two beans to rub together otherwise.
    Originally posted by Ray Singh-Blue
    I agree
    • chucknorris
    • By chucknorris 4th Feb 18, 9:35 AM
    • 9,581 Posts
    • 14,366 Thanks
    chucknorris
    If you value defined benefit pensions in the same way as the Office for National Statistics, then you can be a pension millionaire even if you are as poor as a church mouse in real life.

    For example if you were due a pension of 29K per year, and your spouse was due a pension of 19K per year, that would make you a millionaire household. Even if you did not have two beans to rub together otherwise.
    Originally posted by Ray Singh-Blue
    It can be subjective, personally I use a multiplier of 28.5 on my spreadsheet, so I would value those two pensions at well over 1m (1.368m). It does highlight the value of a DB pension.
    Chuck Norris can kill two stones with one bird
    The only time Chuck Norris was wrong was when he thought he had made a mistake
    Chuck Norris puts the "laughter" in "manslaughter".
    After running injuries I now mostly hike, gym classes and weight training (also a bit of cycling and swimming), less impact on my joints.
    • talexuser
    • By talexuser 4th Feb 18, 1:29 PM
    • 2,403 Posts
    • 1,903 Thanks
    talexuser
    If the slant the Mail wants to spread is how well we are doing it is not very convincing. Having a house in London for years and a final salary pension could easily make you a millionaire in those terms. Doesn't mean you live like Philip Green, although you are likely still much better off than the lowest % renting and little savings.
    • Radiantsoul
    • By Radiantsoul 4th Feb 18, 9:17 PM
    • 1,997 Posts
    • 1,989 Thanks
    Radiantsoul

    For example if you were due a pension of 29K per year, and your spouse was due a pension of 19K per year, that would make you a millionaire household. Even if you did not have two beans to rub together otherwise.
    Originally posted by Ray Singh-Blue
    You would have 50k per year at retirement. Which might well last 30 plus years.
    • dividendhero
    • By dividendhero 4th Feb 18, 10:25 PM
    • 208 Posts
    • 187 Thanks
    dividendhero
    I've not got enough disposable income to buy the Daily Mail.
    Originally posted by veryintrigued
    I hate the Mail with a passion, nasty rag.

    I do have a dilemma with the Metro.
    It's owned by the Daily Mail - should I ignore it and reduce it's circulation and hence revenue, or should i pick up a copy and just chuck it in a bin and increase their costs?
    • hildosaver
    • By hildosaver 4th Feb 18, 10:31 PM
    • 297 Posts
    • 433 Thanks
    hildosaver
    Nope - nowhere near it.
    Mortgage balance September 2012: 121,086 (First ever OP)
    Mortgage balance March 2018: 77,650
    • thenewcomer
    • By thenewcomer 5th Feb 18, 12:02 AM
    • 95 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    thenewcomer
    yes i am. thanks you lol
    • economic
    • By economic 5th Feb 18, 12:32 AM
    • 2,940 Posts
    • 1,586 Thanks
    economic
    It can be subjective, personally I use a multiplier of 28.5 on my spreadsheet, so I would value those two pensions at well over 1m (1.368m). It does highlight the value of a DB pension.
    Originally posted by chucknorris
    Is the 28.5 multiplier based on annuity rates (3.5%)? Is the multiplier applied to fixed annual income (not inflation linked or increasing in anyway)?
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 5th Feb 18, 2:11 AM
    • 4,424 Posts
    • 6,358 Thanks
    Cakeguts
    Probably might be a good idea to exclude the property that you live in. It isn't disposable income and some people might forget to subtract the mortgage.
    • grey gym sock
    • By grey gym sock 5th Feb 18, 3:01 AM
    • 4,394 Posts
    • 3,948 Thanks
    grey gym sock
    nobody thinks they're wealthy.

    it's my home, so it doesn't count. it's in a pension, so it doesn't count. and yet those are the 2 biggest components of household wealth in the UK.

    and it doesn't stop there. landed aristocrats will say their stately home and collection of art is something they feel a responsibility to look after, and actually the running costs are huge. families who've put a lot of their wealth in multi-generational trusts will say that actually trust money is not their personal money. philip green will say it's not his money, it's his wife's. and so on.
    • Alexland
    • By Alexland 5th Feb 18, 6:46 AM
    • 2,577 Posts
    • 1,956 Thanks
    Alexland
    philip green will say it's not his money, it's his wife's. and so on.
    Originally posted by grey gym sock
    It's really not Philip Green nor his wife's money if it was gained by a deliberate policy of underfunding an employee pension scheme.... as Father Ted would say the money was just resting in his bank account.
    Last edited by Alexland; 05-02-2018 at 6:49 AM.
    • vacheron
    • By vacheron 5th Feb 18, 8:56 AM
    • 831 Posts
    • 764 Thanks
    vacheron
    It can be subjective, personally I use a multiplier of 28.5 on my spreadsheet, so I would value those two pensions at well over 1m (1.368m). It does highlight the value of a DB pension.
    Originally posted by chucknorris
    It does indeed. I have a Rolls Royce DB pension from my first ever job and into which I paid the princely sum total of 6,400 between 1995 and 2003.

    The latest pension statement I received showed this has translated to a yearly index linked pension of 4,400, however the latest transfer value is 167,000.

    Other ex R-R employees are being offered similar amounts of between 37-38x pension to transfer out.

    This means anyone with a R-R pension of 26,400 could be a millionaire based on that alone!
    Last edited by vacheron; 05-02-2018 at 9:38 AM.
    The rich buy assets.
    The poor only have expenses.
    The middle class buy liabilities they think are assets.
    Robert T. Kiyosaki
    • vacheron
    • By vacheron 5th Feb 18, 9:35 AM
    • 831 Posts
    • 764 Thanks
    vacheron
    Probably might be a good idea to exclude the property that you live in. It isn't disposable income and some people might forget to subtract the mortgage.
    Originally posted by Cakeguts
    Having massive mortgage debt is often completely disregarded in so many of these surveys yet holding even modest savings seems to be highly valued.

    It is the same problem I saw when the BBC launched their "Great British Class Calculator" a few years ago.

    I have an offset mortgage which can be considered as having simultaneous savings and mortgage debt.

    If I assumed all my offset savings were cancelling my mortgage debt, the class calculator considered me as "Technical Middle Class"

    However if I considered them as traditional "savings" (which would result in an identical increase in my total mortgage debt), the calculator then decides I belong to the "Elite", despite there not being a penny difference in my financial situation or my social or cultural interactions.
    Last edited by vacheron; 05-02-2018 at 9:39 AM.
    The rich buy assets.
    The poor only have expenses.
    The middle class buy liabilities they think are assets.
    Robert T. Kiyosaki
    • noh
    • By noh 5th Feb 18, 1:28 PM
    • 5,244 Posts
    • 3,545 Thanks
    noh
    Having massive mortgage debt is often completely disregarded in so many of these surveys yet holding even modest savings seems to be highly valued.

    It is the same problem I saw when the BBC launched their "Great British Class Calculator" a few years ago.

    I have an offset mortgage which can be considered as having simultaneous savings and mortgage debt.

    If I assumed all my offset savings were cancelling my mortgage debt, the class calculator considered me as "Technical Middle Class"

    However if I considered them as traditional "savings" (which would result in an identical increase in my total mortgage debt), the calculator then decides I belong to the "Elite", despite there not being a penny difference in my financial situation or my social or cultural interactions.
    Originally posted by vacheron
    The ONS survey in question is about net worth. Therefore mortgage debt is taken into account.
    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/wealthingreatbritainwave5/2014to2016
    • datlex
    • By datlex 5th Feb 18, 8:44 PM
    • 1,656 Posts
    • 1,551 Thanks
    datlex
    I'm certainly not one of the one in ten. Millionaire is just a figure. As others have said it is meaningless for a number of reasons. income 1000,000 expenditure 1000,100 result unhappiness, income 10,000 expenditure 9,990 result happiness.
    • TheShape
    • By TheShape 6th Feb 18, 12:11 AM
    • 1,293 Posts
    • 1,103 Thanks
    TheShape
    income 1000,000 expenditure 1000,100 result unhappiness, income 10,000 expenditure 9,990 result happiness.
    Originally posted by datlex
    That doesn't really work though. In scenario 1, I'm only 110 worse off than scenario 2 but I've spent over 1m rather than less then 10k. I imagine I'd have had a hell of a lot of fun spending 1m.
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