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    • atrixblue.-MFR-.
    • By atrixblue.-MFR-. 2nd Feb 18, 2:28 PM
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    atrixblue.-MFR-.
    School uniform policy. is it going too far?
    • #1
    • 2nd Feb 18, 2:28 PM
    School uniform policy. is it going too far? 2nd Feb 18 at 2:28 PM
    Secondary school uniform policy, is it going too far? I mean, back in my day it was a stud for an earing, skirts to 2inches above the knee max, as long as you had school ties and school colours on it was fine, 1 inch heals max, trainers only in gym and outdoor sports, wear any PE kit that suited.


    Now My daughter has ASD/ADHD, She has sensory issues in which she cannot have certain materials touch her skin, it makes her skin crawl, she's not too bad in shirts so long as they're not restrictive and not too silky and have all tags cut off.


    She is a Size 6 maximum very slim and petite (she is exact of me when I was her age, could eat anything and not put a bean on) so getting trousers for her is a challenge in its own right add in other factors and school uniform policy and I'm between a rock and hard place looking for needles in a haystack.


    School policy states:


    No skirt above mid knee.
    No trousers that have a zip pocket, no trouser to have a rear zip pocket, zip up to waist band accepted with clasp. No Jeggings, No leggings, No jeans, No Leggings under skirts.
    School Gym PPE uniform must be adhered to No skorts. No tracksuit bottoms, No white tennis socks, suitable footware to be we worn for outdoor or indoor gym use Must use anti skid Socks whilst indoors for pe at all times when partaking in Gymnastics (available at school shop) School branded and badged socks are avaialibe in the school shop for hockey, rugby, football,netball, cross country, Must have school badge on bottoms and top of school PE weather proofs (avaialable in the school or authorised local sports center), School badge on school jumper, cardigan, and jackets (available at the school shop).
    Winter jackets can be home supplied but must be Black in colour, no drawer strings for the kneck area or hood, No hoodies, V kneck jumper only we advise you purchase winter jackets when available order forms will be given to pupils on last day of term, please hand these back in by 30th September.


    School only buys in size 8 and this is massive on both daughters, trousers I can find that she can wear come with zips, or school condemn them and tell me she cant wear them as they don't conform to school uniform policy fully.


    Their shop items are expensive, 49.99 for a school winter jacket, considering I have twins both 13 in school, that's 100.00. and don't get me started on gym stuff.


    Ive spent the best part of 800 on stuff since September this year trying my best to get my girls to conform to uniform policy, what ever I do its not good enough and they want me to take them out to buy more, or call me in to trawl through the shop stock looking for something that will fit, be the right material, be the right size etc and nothing does trousers wise for her.


    When is toime to say to a school enough is enough, with this its going too far and costing parents on low incomes too much each and every term.
    "We only have one world, But we live in different worlds"- Mark Knopfler Brothers in arms, Miss you gramps.
Page 4
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 4th Feb 18, 10:43 PM
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    Savvy_Sue
    It's a while ago, but I know the school the boys went to said that the uniform supplier WOULD supply in sizes outside the range for which prices were quoted, and would make to order if necessary. I think this was at the same price as regular sizes.

    I just wonder if the OP has checked with the supplier direct, rather than just with the school? I don't know how it used to work because we only needed 'standard' sizes but I think we had the supplier's details on the order form in case of any difficulty.
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    • deannatrois
    • By deannatrois 5th Feb 18, 7:34 AM
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    deannatrois
    I am sorry, I haven't read the rest of the thread but I have a slim son. I put elastic in his trousers to make them fit, even just at the back.

    Yes I definitely agree Secondary School uniform policy is too restrictive. I can't imagine what difference it makes if a young person wears trousers with or without pockets etc.

    My son is autistic and has problems dressing. He's half way through the school year and I have had to replace his uniform twice, even his shoes cause he loses them in the rush to get dressed /undressed. If its a uniform item that can only be ordered from the school supplier (PE mostly, of course) he gets a detention for not having the correct items, even when I have written and explained that its ordered but there's a week delay for delivery.

    I finally let rip last week and told the Head, SENCO and PE dept that they were being discriminatory and I could not afford to keep replacing uniform items because they weren't giving my son time to get dressed. It seems the unreasoning attitude of PE departments hasn't changed since I was at school. This was after a previous complaint when he got a detention in spite of explaining he'd lost socks (again) and I'd ordered replacements but they wouldn't arrive in time. Yes I ordered two pairs this time. I have explained his problems getting dressed/undressed.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 5th Feb 18, 10:05 AM
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    Comms69
    And how many more of these schools are heading down this same route? More and more and more are in the news and on social media. The schools may have their own policies but you can clearly see it's trickling down for the top.

    So many people are blind to what is happening in our schools, to our children. It's so subtle but it's there and schools are no longer the institutions they once were.

    I don't speak nonsense, I speak experience and research. Over 3 year's worth with my youngest 3 and the full 16+ years with my oldest.
    Originally posted by Mela322


    The fact that it is in the news should suggest to you that it is rare!


    Otherwise it's not news worthy....
    • deannatrois
    • By deannatrois 5th Feb 18, 12:05 PM
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    deannatrois
    I've just been emailed and told my son has been lent a school tie (the latest item he's lost) but I need to take 7.20 in tomorrow to pay for it. Apparently after the break the school won't lend uniform, the kids will just go into isolation. My son spent two hours in isolation last term (I didn't realise, it was a minor infraction and I assumed he would get a half hour detention) and it took me a week to get him back into school.

    I've written to them and told them although he's been happier at this school than he's ever been, I can't take the stress of worrying every time he loses yet another piece of uniform. I have two of everything but its major if he loses something and I don't always have money readily available to replace things. He loses something every week.

    So yes, I now feel even more that a too rigid policy is actually detrimental, not only to the young person but to their family. I have had to replace some items three times already.
    • maman
    • By maman 5th Feb 18, 12:27 PM
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    maman
    I don't think it's subtle at all. It seems obvious to me. It's all part of the government's privatisation policy which encourages academies and free schools. Private/public schools are the model. They wear a strict uniform. So the corollary of that is that if you make children wear a strict uniform then they will have results as good as the private schools. If you can also enforce strict rules and exclude pupils that don't conform then so much the better.
    Originally posted by maman

    I think the issues that many parents are posting about shows a lack of understanding of how schools have to operate. While an individual parent (quite understandably) sees things from their child's point of view, the school has to consider the wider school community.


    Most schools will try to make adjustments where possible for individuals but generally speaking policies have to be school wide. Imagine a scenario where OP's DD was allowed to wear trousers with zips. There'd be outcry from other parents who weren't allowed them. If the school changed its policy then you can bet that someone would turn up like this:
    • pearl123
    • By pearl123 5th Feb 18, 12:55 PM
    • 1,379 Posts
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    pearl123
    Secondary school uniform policy, is it going too far? I mean, back in my day it was a stud for an earing, skirts to 2inches above the knee max, as long as you had school ties and school colours on it was fine, 1 inch heals max, trainers only in gym and outdoor sports, wear any PE kit that suited.


    Now My daughter has ASD/ADHD, She has sensory issues in which she cannot have certain materials touch her skin, it makes her skin crawl, she's not too bad in shirts so long as they're not restrictive and not too silky and have all tags cut off.


    She is a Size 6 maximum very slim and petite (she is exact of me when I was her age, could eat anything and not put a bean on) so getting trousers for her is a challenge in its own right add in other factors and school uniform policy and I'm between a rock and hard place looking for needles in a haystack.


    School policy states:


    No skirt above mid knee.
    No trousers that have a zip pocket, no trouser to have a rear zip pocket, zip up to waist band accepted with clasp. No Jeggings, No leggings, No jeans, No Leggings under skirts.
    School Gym PPE uniform must be adhered to No skorts. No tracksuit bottoms, No white tennis socks, suitable footware to be we worn for outdoor or indoor gym use Must use anti skid Socks whilst indoors for pe at all times when partaking in Gymnastics (available at school shop) School branded and badged socks are avaialibe in the school shop for hockey, rugby, football,netball, cross country, Must have school badge on bottoms and top of school PE weather proofs (avaialable in the school or authorised local sports center), School badge on school jumper, cardigan, and jackets (available at the school shop).
    Winter jackets can be home supplied but must be Black in colour, no drawer strings for the kneck area or hood, No hoodies, V kneck jumper only we advise you purchase winter jackets when available order forms will be given to pupils on last day of term, please hand these back in by 30th September.


    School only buys in size 8 and this is massive on both daughters, trousers I can find that she can wear come with zips, or school condemn them and tell me she cant wear them as they don't conform to school uniform policy fully.


    Their shop items are expensive, 49.99 for a school winter jacket, considering I have twins both 13 in school, that's 100.00. and don't get me started on gym stuff.


    Ive spent the best part of 800 on stuff since September this year trying my best to get my girls to conform to uniform policy, what ever I do its not good enough and they want me to take them out to buy more, or call me in to trawl through the shop stock looking for something that will fit, be the right material, be the right size etc and nothing does trousers wise for her.


    When is toime to say to a school enough is enough, with this its going too far and costing parents on low incomes too much each and every term.
    Originally posted by atrixblue.-MFR-.
    Strict uniform is a good thing as whilst they are at school they represent the school. It's also good that they are more relaxed about uniforms in their last year in school.
    My mother 37 years ago had to pay 45.00 for a shirt, because my school specified it had to be a particular one.

    If you are finding it too expensive or if the cloth is unpleasant for your child speak to the school.
    • Fireflyaway
    • By Fireflyaway 5th Feb 18, 6:22 PM
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    Fireflyaway
    My child's school uniform comes from a website. There is no choice at all, it can't be bought anywhere else. Personally that's a good thing. I don't have to worry if its correct or not and everyone looks the same. Some 'uniforms' are anything but uniform. Long skirts, mini skirts, tight trousers, cut off ties, trainers, heels, all sorts of wild hair do and make up!
    I think its important to have rules and in the grown up world this happens. Imagine a nurse in a dirty old tracksuit or a policeman in a onesie?! Some things are a bit annoying but that's life.
    • Spendless
    • By Spendless 5th Feb 18, 8:26 PM
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    Spendless
    I think the issues that many parents are posting about shows a lack of understanding of how schools have to operate. While an individual parent (quite understandably) sees things from their child's point of view, the school has to consider the wider school community.


    Most schools will try to make adjustments where possible for individuals but generally speaking policies have to be school wide. Imagine a scenario where OP's DD was allowed to wear trousers with zips. There'd be outcry from other parents who weren't allowed them. If the school changed its policy then you can bet that someone would turn up like this:
    Originally posted by maman
    Because it would be too difficult to say something like 'no more than 2 pocket zips located at top of trousers only'

    Making so many restrictions parents struggle to find the actual clothing isn't working.
    • Mela322
    • By Mela322 6th Feb 18, 12:39 PM
    • 94 Posts
    • 77 Thanks
    Mela322
    It'll teach them that sometimes they have to do as they're told, that sometimes there are rules to follow, and sometimes they might not get to do what they want. Like if they're working on a building site they HAVE to wear a hard hat and reflective waistcoat thing. Or if they're working in a factory making lemon curd they'll need to wear a protect apron and breathing mask when pouring out the citric acid (yup, I've done that job!) and if they want to be a surgeon they'll have to wear short sleeved shirts, no wedding ring and no watch. It just teaches them that tough sh!t sometimes you have to do stuff you don't like.
    Originally posted by Katgrit
    Probably about 90% of American schools do not have a uniform, they work all sorts of jobs. When you choose a career, you have looked into and done loads of research and will know what is expected.

    So how does your theory stack up against that? What does an extreme uniform policy teach them exactly?
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 6th Feb 18, 1:26 PM
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    Comms69
    Probably about 90% of American schools do not have a uniform, they work all sorts of jobs. When you choose a career, you have looked into and done loads of research and will know what is expected.

    So how does your theory stack up against that? What does an extreme uniform policy teach them exactly?
    Originally posted by Mela322
    Here's a simpler explanation - wear the uniform or don't attend school.


    'Ours is not to question why....)
    • Tabbytabitha
    • By Tabbytabitha 6th Feb 18, 1:53 PM
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    Tabbytabitha
    Probably about 90% of American schools do not have a uniform, they work all sorts of jobs. When you choose a career, you have looked into and done loads of research and will know what is expected.

    So how does your theory stack up against that? What does an extreme uniform policy teach them exactly?
    Originally posted by Mela322
    Most of this doesn't sound like "extreme" uniform policy to me, but then at my school we all wore exactly (and I do mean exactly) the same thing.
    • happyandcontented
    • By happyandcontented 6th Feb 18, 6:20 PM
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    happyandcontented
    Most of this doesn't sound like "extreme" uniform policy to me, but then at my school we all wore exactly (and I do mean exactly) the same thing.
    Originally posted by Tabbytabitha
    So did we, right down to identical socks and underwear!
    • Spendless
    • By Spendless 6th Feb 18, 8:40 PM
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    Spendless
    Here's a simpler explanation - wear the uniform or don't attend school.


    'Ours is not to question why....)
    Originally posted by Comms69
    Which exactly fetches us back to the OP's predicament, he can't find suitable uniform to send his DD in.
    • lesbro
    • By lesbro 8th Feb 18, 4:23 PM
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    • 37 Thanks
    lesbro
    have one great gtanddaughter in the infants and her next sister in the juniors and they have different colour uniforms so no passing down. Their elder sisiter at senior school has to have the set uniform as all items have the school logo embroidered on them, even socks. Now that is a bit extreme and therefor so expensive.
    • thorsoak
    • By thorsoak 8th Feb 18, 4:45 PM
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    thorsoak
    It's always been the same : I passed the 11+ through to the grammar school - way back in 1954 :-D - and the uniform was extremely expensive - I remember hearing the mutterings about the blazer with the embroidered badge and silver braiding plus the sports pleated shorts, gym knickers (does anyone else remember the thick knickers with a pocket??) aertex shirts, science overalls, cookery apron, indoor shoes, outdoor shoes, plimsoles, hockey boots etc etc etc. Then two years later, my sister 2 years younger passed her 11+ - but her place was at another school - with a completely different uniform - although I think I was able to pass the hockey boots down to her. Two years after, second sister was given a place - at another school! Six years later, youngest sister passed to the same school as I attended ...and was my mother spitting mad when, as I was leaving - I ceremonially threw my uniform boater hat into the Thames ....the only thing that could have been passed on to baby sister - which cost something like 5 guineas (5.5s.0d in old money).....
    • Spendless
    • By Spendless 8th Feb 18, 5:57 PM
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    Spendless
    With Grammar school though, you could turn down the place and go to the Secondary Modern instead, which probably didn't have a uniform.

    In 1935, my Gran was the only child from her year to pass the 11+ and it was due to the cost of the uniform and text books that her Dad didn't want her to take the place. He was over-ruled by her Mum, who said she was going 'even if I have to get down on hands and knees and scrub' which is exactly what she did, found work as a cleaner to pay the additional costs.

    Nowadays even the bog standard local with nothing to write home about exams wise, can have an expensive inflexible uniform policy and most others do too, so changing to somewhere else not always an option.
    • thorsoak
    • By thorsoak 8th Feb 18, 6:03 PM
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    thorsoak
    Yes, my parents could have turned down the grammar school place - but what parent would do that if they could possibly help it - like your gran and her mother. My parents ethos was - if you educate a boy, you get an educated man - if you educate a girl, you educate the next generation!
    • maman
    • By maman 8th Feb 18, 6:16 PM
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    maman

    Nowadays even the bog standard local with nothing to write home about exams wise, can have an expensive inflexible uniform policy and most others do too, so changing to somewhere else not always an option.
    Originally posted by Spendless
    So are you suggesting that you have to be academically able or go to a fee paying school to wear a uniform? Any old jumper ( or dare I suggest fake Uggs ) is good enough for the plebs?
    • Spendless
    • By Spendless 8th Feb 18, 8:25 PM
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    Spendless
    So are you suggesting that you have to be academically able or go to a fee paying school to wear a uniform? Any old jumper ( or dare I suggest fake Uggs ) is good enough for the plebs?
    Originally posted by maman
    No, I was responding to the post that said it was always like that re uniforms talking about Grammar schools and uniforms. The alternative was you could by decline the place and still attend a state school by going to the Secondary modern instead (some people will have done this due to the cost like my Great Grandfather wanted my Nan to do).

    Nowadays both the 'sink' school and the fantastic grades school are likely to have expensive, inflexible uniforms, so the option that was there years ago to avoid the cost (don't go to Grammar school) is no longer available.

    I did say earlier on this thread that the best performing state school in my area (judging so far, it's only been open 4 years) has no uniform, which suggests that what the kids wear and what they can achieve aren't linked- unlike what schools like to have us believe
    • Spendless
    • By Spendless 8th Feb 18, 8:31 PM
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    Spendless
    Yes, my parents could have turned down the grammar school place - but what parent would do that if they could possibly help it - like your gran and her mother. My parents ethos was - if you educate a boy, you get an educated man - if you educate a girl, you educate the next generation!
    Originally posted by thorsoak
    People who considered themselves unable to afford the uniform would have, just like my Nan, without her mother's intervention. For everyone with my Nan's outcome they'll have been at least one saying can't afford it, and unable to do what my Great Gran did, she only was able to work because she had 2 children. My other 3 G-Grans had far larger broods, going to work when the eldest was 11 wouldn't have been possible.
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