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  • FIRST POST
    • jackfrost1
    • By jackfrost1 30th Jan 18, 6:16 PM
    • 11Posts
    • 6Thanks
    jackfrost1
    PCN Indigo: Railway Byelaws
    • #1
    • 30th Jan 18, 6:16 PM
    PCN Indigo: Railway Byelaws 30th Jan 18 at 6:16 PM
    Hello All,

    I have been a long term reader of these forums but have hitherto never had to make use of your expertise.

    I have read the following in the newbies forum:

    Q - ''My windscreen Notice is a 'PENALTY' from a Railway car park, issued by a private firm (Indigo), what do I do?''

    A - JANUARY 2018 UPDATE: DVLA SAYS INDIGO ARE NOT REQUESTING DVLA DATA FOR THESE. THEREFORE, IGNORE A WINDSCREEN PENALTY FROM INDIGO (ONLY IF THE LOCATION WAS A RAILWAY CAR PARK) AND WAIT AND SEE IF THEY ISSUE A NOTICE TO KEEPER AT ALL. THEN IF THEY DO, APPEAL AS KEEPER USING THE TEMPLATE BELOW. IT SEEMS LIKELY YOU WILL HEAR NOTHING, IN WHICH CASE, DO NOTHING.

    Today, a windscreen notice was issued against the car for which I am the registered keeper in a Southeastern railway car park - breach code 1 - Failing to display a valid ticket or voucher.

    Attempts were made to pay via telephone. Indeed, I have a recording in my possession of the message you hear when you ring up to try and pay again for the same car stating that parking is valid for today (30/1/18) up until 4am tomorrow morning (31/1/18). It seems as though there has been a glitch somewhere. There is no receipt as Indigo charge their customers for the provision of one via text message.

    Should I try to point this error out to Indigo, or simply wait for them to take any further action and follow the advice in the newbie thread with regards to appealing as keeper? (should it come to it)

    I am aware from reading these forums that there is some doubt as to the status of railway byelaws with regard to parking. I am happy for this case to be a test case of the current status quo and report back here.

    Any advice gratefully received - thanks in advance.
Page 2
    • jackfrost1
    • By jackfrost1 23rd Mar 18, 1:56 PM
    • 11 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    jackfrost1
    Thanks everyone - anyone have any idea how much these companies make from these scams?

    I will wait until April before sending the blue template letter, await their response, and then hit them with more questions like the ones above.

    Have a nice weekend
    • jackfrost1
    • By jackfrost1 20th Apr 18, 7:16 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    jackfrost1
    Hello Everyone,

    A small update from me. After having mailed the blue template letter to Indigo last week, yesterday, I received the following from ZZPS uploaded here to help others in a similar situation:-

    hxxp://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh528/Jackfrost1983/30B58F7D-CB06-47C6-91D9-87633653D002_zpsr1oseuuz.jpeg

    My plan is to respond to this letter highlighting the fact that my letter to Indigo has gone unanswered and that discussions will not be entered into until my letter has been responded to.

    As the whole point of this exercise is to waste time, does this seem like the right course of action?

    Thanks
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 20th Apr 18, 7:25 AM
    • 12,626 Posts
    • 12,842 Thanks
    The Deep
    They are debt collectors. Generally, advice is to ignore them, but in this case why not, it costs them money.This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    Last edited by The Deep; 20-04-2018 at 7:35 AM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Handbags-at-dawn
    • By Handbags-at-dawn 20th Apr 18, 7:26 AM
    • 182 Posts
    • 382 Thanks
    Handbags-at-dawn
    http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh528/Jackfrost1983/30B58F7D-CB06-47C6-91D9-87633653D002_zpsr1oseuuz.jpeg
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 20th Apr 18, 7:42 AM
    • 12,626 Posts
    • 12,842 Thanks
    The Deep
    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Handbags-at-dawn
    • By Handbags-at-dawn 20th Apr 18, 8:52 AM
    • 182 Posts
    • 382 Thanks
    Handbags-at-dawn
    Thanks everyone - anyone have any idea how much these companies make from these scams?.
    Originally posted by jackfrost1
    (quote from post 21)

    We can't get that information from Indigo or the TOCs they work for, as being private bodies they do not fall within the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act.

    However, Transport for London is a public body. In a recent Freedom of Information request they said the revenue in 2017 from PCNs at their tube station car parks was 1,181,906. This is the link:
    https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/underground_car_park_pcns#outgoing-755276

    These figures relate to a total number of 79 car parks, some of which are very small (eg Penge West, which only has 8). Indigo Park Solutions, on the other hand, manages over 3 times as many station car parks, providing (at a guess) well over 4 times as many parking spaces.

    So thinking over-simplistically, it's possible their fake penalties bring in over 4m a year.
    Last edited by Handbags-at-dawn; 20-04-2018 at 8:54 AM.
    • waamo
    • By waamo 20th Apr 18, 9:54 AM
    • 6,294 Posts
    • 8,231 Thanks
    waamo
    Hello Everyone,

    A small update from me. After having mailed the blue template letter to Indigo last week, yesterday, I received the following from ZZPS uploaded here to help others in a similar situation:-

    hxxp://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh528/Jackfrost1983/30B58F7D-CB06-47C6-91D9-87633653D002_zpsr1oseuuz.jpeg

    My plan is to respond to this letter highlighting the fact that my letter to Indigo has gone unanswered and that discussions will not be entered into until my letter has been responded to.

    As the whole point of this exercise is to waste time, does this seem like the right course of action?

    Thanks
    Originally posted by jackfrost1
    In a nutshell yes. Anything that drags the process out beyond 6 months is fine.

    I have a strong suspicion that simply ignoring it would work too. People generally seem happier doing something though plus a more proactive approach pretty much guarantees a successful outcome.
    This space for hire.
    • jackfrost1
    • By jackfrost1 20th Apr 18, 10:23 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    jackfrost1
    In a nutshell yes. Anything that drags the process out beyond 6 months is fine.

    I have a strong suspicion that simply ignoring it would work too. People generally seem happier doing something though plus a more proactive approach pretty much guarantees a successful outcome.
    Originally posted by waamo
    You're probably right. However, I would add that in my experience (and I'm not saying that this matter would ever end up in court) courts take a less favorable view of people that bury their heads in the sand, no matter how good their case is. A nice chain of paperwork goes a long way to proving you were to some extent engaged in finding a solution.
    • twhitehousescat
    • By twhitehousescat 20th Apr 18, 10:36 AM
    • 3,682 Posts
    • 4,628 Thanks
    twhitehousescat
    You're probably right. However, I would add that in my experience (and I'm not saying that this matter would ever end up in court) courts take a less favorable view of people that bury their heads in the sand, no matter how good their case is. A nice chain of paperwork goes a long way to proving you were to some extent engaged in finding a solution.
    Originally posted by jackfrost1

    YOU cannot find a solution , only a magistrates court can decide the outcome , Indigo asking for monies not to tell the train Co of your crime would be frowned on by a magistrate , why or how could it be legal for a private company to take a "back hander" and suppress paperwork

    do you think Indigo would like this?
    Time pretending I was asleep whilst under his desk , has given me insight to this sordid world
    • jackfrost1
    • By jackfrost1 20th Apr 18, 11:06 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    jackfrost1
    YOU cannot find a solution , only a magistrates court can decide the outcome , Indigo asking for monies not to tell the train Co of your crime would be frowned on by a magistrate , why or how could it be legal for a private company to take a "back hander" and suppress paperwork

    do you think Indigo would like this?
    Originally posted by twhitehousescat
    Correct - only the magistrate can decide a court case. However, anything you can do to paint yourself in a better light to him/her on the day can only help you AND serve to paint these companies in a bad light further.
    • twhitehousescat
    • By twhitehousescat 20th Apr 18, 11:10 AM
    • 3,682 Posts
    • 4,628 Thanks
    twhitehousescat
    Correct - only the magistrate can decide a court case. However, anything you can do to paint yourself in a better light to him/her on the day can only help you AND serve to paint these companies in a bad light further.
    Originally posted by jackfrost1
    ]

    you seem to forget one simple thing

    any company that requests information , must be a member of a recognized AOS

    in both BPA , IPC and DVLA "speak"

    no information should be passed to non AOS members


    and who would have to take you to court ,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    QED
    Last edited by twhitehousescat; 20-04-2018 at 11:12 AM.
    Time pretending I was asleep whilst under his desk , has given me insight to this sordid world
    • jackfrost1
    • By jackfrost1 20th Apr 18, 11:31 AM
    • 11 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    jackfrost1
    ]

    you seem to forget one simple thing

    any company that requests information , must be a member of a recognized AOS

    in both BPA , IPC and DVLA "speak"

    no information should be passed to non AOS members


    and who would have to take you to court ,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    QED
    Originally posted by twhitehousescat
    Not forgetting anything. If you read my original post from earlier today I make it quite clear that I do not expect this to end up in court.

    I was speaking in general terms about how to build a court case. Sorry if this was not clear enough
    • skywalker26
    • By skywalker26 27th Apr 18, 3:19 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    skywalker26
    Hi,

    same situation as you, though the PCN was for "not parked fully in the bay". The keeper did not appeal with in 25 days but received NTO from zZPS? Can the keeper still appeal against this?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 27th Apr 18, 3:29 PM
    • 23,009 Posts
    • 36,544 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Hi,

    same situation as you, though the PCN was for "not parked fully in the bay". The keeper did not appeal with in 25 days but received NTO from zZPS? Can the keeper still appeal against this?
    Originally posted by skywalker26
    Hijacking another poster's thread is not allowed and is positively dangerous as confusion will soon break out.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day;
    show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • skywalker26
    • By skywalker26 27th Apr 18, 4:05 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    skywalker26
    sorry abt that.. will start a new thread!

    thx
    • Carouser
    • By Carouser 16th Apr 19, 3:53 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Carouser
    Six-Month Prosecution Timescales
    Hey Peeps

    Just a quick question in connection with the six-month prosecution timescales and railway byelaws.

    Does the six-month clock start ticking from the date the Penalty Notice was issued, or from the date your appeal(s) were dismissed?

    Many thanks!
    • waamo
    • By waamo 16th Apr 19, 4:21 PM
    • 6,294 Posts
    • 8,231 Thanks
    waamo
    It's from the date of the henious crime.
    This space for hire.
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