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  • FIRST POST
    • UN17ED
    • By UN17ED 27th Jan 18, 9:28 PM
    • 369Posts
    • 121Thanks
    UN17ED
    Sainsburys disability discrimination
    • #1
    • 27th Jan 18, 9:28 PM
    Sainsburys disability discrimination 27th Jan 18 at 9:28 PM
    I would like to say how upset and angry I am over my local Sainsburys who have banned my daughter for no reason and will not speak to any of us as to why she has been banned.

    She has severe ocd and this shop was the only place she would shop, she won't do online shopping and won't let anyone else go shopping for her.

    Shopping for her is a stressful thing because she doesn't like people to go near her trolley, it takes her ages to choose her items as she has to make sure there's nothing wrong with it. She has to wipe every item with cleaning wipes as well and will only use self service and then only certain ones.

    There has been a few incidents when despite all the staff knowing she has it and not to go near her have done and have sprayed cleaning stuff near her food, or gone near her food or even touched it and my daughter has got upset because she will not have any of it.

    We went in there pretty much everyday because of my daughters ocd and would constantly get stared at and we've also been wrongly accused of stealing shopping and also using someone else's bank card.

    I think the thing that led to her being banned was because we went to pay for her shopping and noticed the self service area had been shut down half hour early and when I asked a member of staff why was told because the on duty manager had told them to shut it early because she wanted to leave at 10 when the store shut.

    The member of staff knew us and was understanding about my daughter and always went out of her way to help and explained that they couldn't open any self service tills until next day and that she was really sorry because she knew that my daughter wouldn't be able to eat.

    We had to wait to speak to the on duty manager and on the mean time my daughter went around and put all her items of food back and after she finished the on duty manager spoke to us and said the self service area had been shut because there had been problems with the tills all day, something we know was a lie due ro the member of staff that actually worked in that bit that I previously mentioned.

    It was 3 minutes past 10 when we had finally put certain bits through a normal till and we left the store, my daughter was upset and didn't eat that night.

    I put in a complaint and was told that we didn't get to the self service till according to cctv until 10-10, I replied that was incorrect and that we didn't even go near the self service because I could see from the other end of the sore that it was closed and that it was a quarter to 10 when we had approached the member of staff and this was not near the self service area.

    I tried to say I had a copy of the receipt which showed the time as 3 minutes past 10 but customer services wouldn't budge from the answer of cctv showed 10-10. /I was advised to speak to the store manager and when I eventually got to speak to him after a few days of being told he would ring me back told me that she was banned from the store and would not speak any further about it and hung up.

    This now meant my daughter couldn't eat because of her illness it was the only shop she would get her food from, so I took the complaint to head office explained my daughter couldn't eat and they said they would get back to me,

    It took a week of pressing them to get the answer that nothing had changed and that the ban was upheld and they had nothing more to say. At this point my daughter hadn't eaten for 7 days and as a family we were worried.

    I'm sorry for the long post but it has taken us as a family a long time to be able with help from local health services to get her to shop at another store but it caused a lot of distress and still does because she wants to shop there but she can't because of a ban we have no reason why other than to think it is to do with her severe ocd which is surely discrimination due to disability.
Page 10
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 13th Feb 18, 7:04 AM
    • 20,052 Posts
    • 53,784 Thanks
    Pollycat
    So I'll ask you directly what would you do if it were your daughter?
    I apply blame where blame is due and stand by everything I've done, it's always different until something like this happens to you then you will be seeing things a different way.
    Originally posted by UN17ED
    <<sighs>>

    You just don't get it do you?
    It isn't my daughter.

    My last posts were about the benefit you were getting (or not) from continuing posting on this thread.
    I really do hope that it's helping you to continue arguing with posters.
    But it won't be with me anymore.

    One last piece of advice re this:
    we have sent an email to our local mp outlining what happened with Sainsburys
    Originally posted by UN17ED
    I hope you've been much clearer about what actually happened in Sainsbury's than you have been on this thread.
    • GwylimT
    • By GwylimT 13th Feb 18, 7:15 AM
    • 6,113 Posts
    • 11,520 Thanks
    GwylimT
    You keep saying you'll do anything but you have ignored any question regarding the crisis team.
    • pmduk
    • By pmduk 13th Feb 18, 8:33 AM
    • 8,366 Posts
    • 6,182 Thanks
    pmduk
    I think it's about time a BG locked this thread, it's going in circles.
    • Red-Squirrel
    • By Red-Squirrel 13th Feb 18, 11:52 AM
    • 2,677 Posts
    • 7,158 Thanks
    Red-Squirrel
    I have contacted Mind, Saneline, ReThink and many more and they are of the same opinion that the only form of treatment is for her to be sectioned as my daughter is not able to cope with everyday life but like a lot of people in our area who because of the lack of support of mental health we fear that we will be doing what no parent should ever do and that is to bury their own child.
    Originally posted by UN17ED
    Why do you think that sectioning to get the appropriate treatment would kill her? Suicide is not common at all in mental health inpatient facilities, its far far more common in people who are trying to manage in the community not getting the right help!
    • NeilCr
    • By NeilCr 13th Feb 18, 3:41 PM
    • 1,714 Posts
    • 2,294 Thanks
    NeilCr
    Okay. Being the masochist I am!

    I have been thinking about this today. UNI7ED I doubt you are going to like much of this. I do think you are overconfrontational but I do have a lot of sympathy for your situation.

    You asked what I would do in your position. Again, I cannot say because I have no expertise or knowledge of OCD. All I can do is to comment on how I would react if I was placed back where I was before with my ex and her mental health problems.

    1. I would go on and on at the experts and I would take any advice they gave.

    2. If that advice was that she should be sectioned I would follow it. We got very close to that. Red-Squirrel is right in post #184.

    3. I would take back control. Quite frankly in the relationship between you and your daughter there is only one person in control and it is not you.

    At times she is going to be wrong. Do you tell her that? Do you suggest that she apologises. Or do you take her side? Do you placate her because of the reaction you know she will have? Believe me, I know how that happens. And that is what I did and all that happened was that it got worse.

    If you do try this then I know how awful it can be. Tears, tantrums, threats - but, you know what, when I finally got round to doing it slowly things got better. I realised that the threats were not carried out. The tears ratcheted up and it was heart rending. But they did finally finish. It is hugely difficult and it is a battle of wills but you do have to be tough.

    4. I would think about me. You cannot be an effective carer if you are battling stress/health problems yourself. I took myself off for a day. I turned the mobile off. I went for a drive or a long walk. I dreaded turning the phone back on - but not once did I get a message - and she was always okay when I got home.

    I started volunteering. She did not like that at all. And that was because it was taking attention away from her. Again, despite all the noise nothing happened and she grew to accept it.

    5. I would think of the future. Without being gloomy there is going to come a time when you will not be able to look after her and she will have to fend for herself. You have to start thinking about preparing her for that not dealing with the here and now.

    REPEAT. I am not advocating this for someone who has OCD as I have not lived with someone who has this. But that would be how I would handle someone who had the same serious mental health problems that my ex had.

    And it has turned out well. This is in no way all down to me. She made a huge effort to understand her illness and how it effected her. From there things went upwards. My ex lives by herself, is happy and has a good life. She has created a very controlled environment but that is fine. We get on well, talk every week and I am amazingly proud of how she has got to where she has.

    Even though we were separated by then one of the best moments of my life was to be invited to her degree award ceremony. I knew just what it had taken her and what she had been through to get there.

    And that is it. I am sure I will get an aggressive response. You asked -I have replied to the best of my ability.
    Last edited by NeilCr; 13-02-2018 at 3:55 PM.
    • Ames
    • By Ames 13th Feb 18, 5:06 PM
    • 17,244 Posts
    • 30,375 Thanks
    Ames
    I agree with Red Squirrel and NeilCr. If all the professional organisations agree that sectioning is required then it seems clear that's what has to happen.

    I'm also worried that your GP isn't as good as you think. I thought I had a great GP, he was really sympathetic and said all the right things. But when I got talking to various support workers I realised that he didn't actually do anything. In particular with my mental health he'd just say 'services round here are rubbish, there's no point even writing a referral'. Having got a referral and started therapy I realise he was wrong. There was help out there, and the many years I delayed because of his 'advice' have just made my problems far worse than they needed to be.

    It does sound as though your GP is just making lots of sympathetic noises and that's not what your daughter needs right now.

    At the risk of sounding morbid - what will she do if you're suddenly not around? If you have to go into hospital for some reason, or worse? That seems far riskier than having her sectioned and getting appropriate treatment.
    Unless I say otherwise 'you' means the general you not you specifically.
    • UN17ED
    • By UN17ED 15th Feb 18, 1:57 PM
    • 369 Posts
    • 121 Thanks
    UN17ED
    <<sighs>>

    You just don't get it do you?
    It isn't my daughter.

    My last posts were about the benefit you were getting (or not) from continuing posting on this thread.
    I really do hope that it's helping you to continue arguing with posters.
    But it won't be with me anymore.

    One last piece of advice re this:

    I hope you've been much clearer about what actually happened in Sainsbury's than you have been on this thread.
    Originally posted by Pollycat

    I'm sad to hear you won't be adding more valuble advice, but life goes on.
    I couldn't have been any more clearer than all relevant medical orgenisations have been contacted, the most important one which is the local mental health team will not section her, We can not force them to do it.
    • UN17ED
    • By UN17ED 15th Feb 18, 1:58 PM
    • 369 Posts
    • 121 Thanks
    UN17ED
    I agree with Red Squirrel and NeilCr. If all the professional organisations agree that sectioning is required then it seems clear that's what has to happen.

    I'm also worried that your GP isn't as good as you think. I thought I had a great GP, he was really sympathetic and said all the right things. But when I got talking to various support workers I realised that he didn't actually do anything. In particular with my mental health he'd just say 'services round here are rubbish, there's no point even writing a referral'. Having got a referral and started therapy I realise he was wrong. There was help out there, and the many years I delayed because of his 'advice' have just made my problems far worse than they needed to be.

    It does sound as though your GP is just making lots of sympathetic noises and that's not what your daughter needs right now.

    At the risk of sounding morbid - what will she do if you're suddenly not around? If you have to go into hospital for some reason, or worse? That seems far riskier than having her sectioned and getting appropriate treatment.
    Originally posted by Ames
    Again we want her sectioned, have never said any different, it is the local mental health team who won't.
    • UN17ED
    • By UN17ED 15th Feb 18, 2:06 PM
    • 369 Posts
    • 121 Thanks
    UN17ED
    Okay. Being the masochist I am!

    I have been thinking about this today. UNI7ED I doubt you are going to like much of this. I do think you are overconfrontational but I do have a lot of sympathy for your situation.

    You asked what I would do in your position. Again, I cannot say because I have no expertise or knowledge of OCD. All I can do is to comment on how I would react if I was placed back where I was before with my ex and her mental health problems.

    1. I would go on and on at the experts and I would take any advice they gave.

    2. If that advice was that she should be sectioned I would follow it. We got very close to that. Red-Squirrel is right in post #184.

    3. I would take back control. Quite frankly in the relationship between you and your daughter there is only one person in control and it is not you.

    At times she is going to be wrong. Do you tell her that? Do you suggest that she apologises. Or do you take her side? Do you placate her because of the reaction you know she will have? Believe me, I know how that happens. And that is what I did and all that happened was that it got worse.

    If you do try this then I know how awful it can be. Tears, tantrums, threats - but, you know what, when I finally got round to doing it slowly things got better. I realised that the threats were not carried out. The tears ratcheted up and it was heart rending. But they did finally finish. It is hugely difficult and it is a battle of wills but you do have to be tough.

    4. I would think about me. You cannot be an effective carer if you are battling stress/health problems yourself. I took myself off for a day. I turned the mobile off. I went for a drive or a long walk. I dreaded turning the phone back on - but not once did I get a message - and she was always okay when I got home.

    I started volunteering. She did not like that at all. And that was because it was taking attention away from her. Again, despite all the noise nothing happened and she grew to accept it.

    5. I would think of the future. Without being gloomy there is going to come a time when you will not be able to look after her and she will have to fend for herself. You have to start thinking about preparing her for that not dealing with the here and now.

    REPEAT. I am not advocating this for someone who has OCD as I have not lived with someone who has this. But that would be how I would handle someone who had the same serious mental health problems that my ex had.

    And it has turned out well. This is in no way all down to me. She made a huge effort to understand her illness and how it effected her. From there things went upwards. My ex lives by herself, is happy and has a good life. She has created a very controlled environment but that is fine. We get on well, talk every week and I am amazingly proud of how she has got to where she has.

    Even though we were separated by then one of the best moments of my life was to be invited to her degree award ceremony. I knew just what it had taken her and what she had been through to get there.

    And that is it. I am sure I will get an aggressive response. You asked -I have replied to the best of my ability.
    Originally posted by NeilCr
    If disagreeing with people on this forum is deemed as aggressive so be it, no one bothers to read my posts saying about getting her help but being let down by the local mental health team for getting her sectioned.

    I did ask for how you would deal with it and you replied but spoilt it right at the end.
    • UN17ED
    • By UN17ED 15th Feb 18, 2:09 PM
    • 369 Posts
    • 121 Thanks
    UN17ED
    You keep saying you'll do anything but you have ignored any question regarding the crisis team.
    Originally posted by GwylimT
    I have contacted the crisis team, as I have said on numerous posts previously where I said I have contacted all relevant medical organisations. Unfortunately all they said was they would pass on to mental health.
    • baza52
    • By baza52 15th Feb 18, 2:19 PM
    • 2,143 Posts
    • 2,219 Thanks
    baza52
    what treatment has she had or is receiving now? Is she on any medication?
    How else does her OCD impact her life apart from shopping and the need to wipe things before she uses them?
    • UN17ED
    • By UN17ED 15th Feb 18, 2:21 PM
    • 369 Posts
    • 121 Thanks
    UN17ED
    Why do you think that sectioning to get the appropriate treatment would kill her? Suicide is not common at all in mental health inpatient facilities, its far far more common in people who are trying to manage in the community not getting the right help!
    Originally posted by Red-Squirrel
    Sectioning is the most appropriate treatment, and for them not to take her in is disgraceful and I should not have to be contacting the local mp to get treatment.

    The amount of people who have commited suicide in this area because they have been let down by the local mental health unit is not acceptable.

    And a lot of them are known to police and to the mental health services at being at risk and are being left to get worse without the help they so obviously needed but didn't get!!
    • UN17ED
    • By UN17ED 15th Feb 18, 2:37 PM
    • 369 Posts
    • 121 Thanks
    UN17ED
    what treatment has she had or is receiving now? Is she on any medication?
    How else does her OCD impact her life apart from shopping and the need to wipe things before she uses them?
    Originally posted by baza52
    She is on medication and has been waiting since October 2017 for CBT, and was promised an appointment with a pyschologist 6 weeks ago, she's still waiting.

    The OCD has overtaken her life completely, she cannot cope with daily life, and it's gotten past the point of anything we can do for her, or any suport groups, or reading books or tips etc.

    Mental health, the crisis team, nhs 111 and the gp are all aware how bad things are but we are passed from pillar to post and it's all too much for us to handle.
    • AndyPix
    • By AndyPix 15th Feb 18, 2:55 PM
    • 3,555 Posts
    • 2,739 Thanks
    AndyPix
    So you are saying that everybody you have spoken to agrees with you that she should be sectioned, apart from mental health ?


    I dont know how sectioning works, but surely a doctor can do this if they think your daughters life is at risk ?


    ie - not eaten for 7 days ..


    It all looks a bit wooley this tbh
    Running with scissors since 1978
    • AndyPix
    • By AndyPix 15th Feb 18, 3:03 PM
    • 3,555 Posts
    • 2,739 Thanks
    AndyPix
    If disagreeing with people on this forum is deemed as aggressive so be it, no one bothers to read my posts saying about getting her help but being let down by the local mental health team for getting her sectioned.

    I did ask for how you would deal with it and you replied but spoilt it right at the end.



    Thank you for taking the time to write that thorough response
    Originally posted by UN17ED

    Fixed that for you
    Running with scissors since 1978
    • baza52
    • By baza52 15th Feb 18, 3:23 PM
    • 2,143 Posts
    • 2,219 Thanks
    baza52
    OP, Why dont you just take her to A&E and speak to someone and get her to tell them she WANTS to be sectioned as she cannot cope and is feeling suicidal.
    • Quizzical Squirrel
    • By Quizzical Squirrel 15th Feb 18, 3:36 PM
    • 170 Posts
    • 4,573 Thanks
    Quizzical Squirrel
    She is on medication and has been waiting since October 2017 for CBT, and was promised an appointment with a pyschologist 6 weeks ago, she's still waiting.

    The OCD has overtaken her life completely, she cannot cope with daily life, and it's gotten past the point of anything we can do for her, or any suport groups, or reading books or tips etc.

    Mental health, the crisis team, nhs 111 and the gp are all aware how bad things are but we are passed from pillar to post and it's all too much for us to handle.
    Originally posted by UN17ED
    Will private medical care enable you to access other services?
    • NeilCr
    • By NeilCr 15th Feb 18, 4:22 PM
    • 1,714 Posts
    • 2,294 Thanks
    NeilCr
    If disagreeing with people on this forum is deemed as aggressive so be it, no one bothers to read my posts saying about getting her help but being let down by the local mental health team for getting her sectioned.

    I did ask for how you would deal with it and you replied but spoilt it right at the end.
    Originally posted by UN17ED
    Perhaps the sensible thing for you to do is not concentrate on the one thing that you disagree with in a post but look at the 95% + that you see as positive.

    So what has exactly happened with your local mental health team. Have they seen your daughter? Why have they refused to section her.
    Last edited by NeilCr; 15-02-2018 at 10:17 PM. Reason: Extra comment.
    • seashore22
    • By seashore22 15th Feb 18, 4:23 PM
    • 1,003 Posts
    • 2,194 Thanks
    seashore22
    Will private medical care enable you to access other services?
    Originally posted by Quizzical Squirrel
    If you read the op's other posts you will realise that his financial situation won't quite stretch to private medical help.

    I have no idea what is going on with the op, but I will say that mental health provision is inadequate to say the least, although I do think a young person who presents as not eating for 7 days would get some kind of emergency assistance and be taken seriously.

    Our own experience is that as long as it is kept within the family the authorities concerned are very slow to act. My husband has a relative who has been repeatedly sectioned, but only when they threatened members of the public and never when it was just the family suffering. I wish more could be done, but I suppose the finances and resources just aren't there.
    • Quizzical Squirrel
    • By Quizzical Squirrel 15th Feb 18, 4:34 PM
    • 170 Posts
    • 4,573 Thanks
    Quizzical Squirrel
    OK, so can the OP sell their house and possessions and dramatically downsize? Free up funds?
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