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  • FIRST POST
    • sevenhills
    • By sevenhills 25th Jan 18, 6:37 PM
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    sevenhills
    Standing for election is a human right
    • #1
    • 25th Jan 18, 6:37 PM
    Standing for election is a human right 25th Jan 18 at 6:37 PM
    In the UK over 5.5 million people work in central and local Government. Many of those workers will be disqualified from standing for election. As a local authority worker for Leeds City Council, myself and all my 14,632 colleagues are disqualified from standing for election to our city council. Disqualifying almost 15,000 people from standing for election seems quite bizarre to me, not many people are interested in politics, the bigger the pool to choose from, the better. The turnout in my electoral ward in 2016, in Leeds was just under 31%, a sad reflection on how people feel about politics. In the English local elections of 2016, in some areas fewer than one in five eligible voters went to their local polling station to cast a vote, we have a broken system. But the Scottish system seems much better, the turnout in the 2012 Scottish local elections was 39.6%, and in 2017 local elections turnout was 46.9%


    In Scotland the rules were changed in 2005 so that an employee of a local authority could stand for election to that authority, and would only have to resign their employment if they were elected. The Electoral Commission carried out a report for the government in 2015, the report recommended that England should adopt the same qualifying rules for elections as Scotland, and local authority workers should be allowed to stand, but they would have to resign their job with the local authority if elected. The report has not been acted upon yet. The Conservative gave the DUP £1 billion so that they can get bills through Parliament, but very little few bills are being processed.


    "The Electoral Commission recommend that the law in England, Wales and Northern Ireland is changed to make a clear distinction between offices or employment which would prevent someone standing for election, and those which would prevent someone from holding office if elected"

Page 1
    • robpw2
    • By robpw2 25th Jan 18, 6:48 PM
    • 12,648 Posts
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    robpw2
    • #2
    • 25th Jan 18, 6:48 PM
    • #2
    • 25th Jan 18, 6:48 PM
    JR time under the eu convention - get in quick whilst you still have time he he


    Slimming world start 28/01/2012 starting weight 21st 2.5lb current weight 17st 9-total loss 3st 7.5lb
    Slimmer of the month February , March ,April
    • sevenhills
    • By sevenhills 25th Jan 18, 10:27 PM
    • 1,171 Posts
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    sevenhills
    • #3
    • 25th Jan 18, 10:27 PM
    • #3
    • 25th Jan 18, 10:27 PM
    JR time under the eu convention - get in quick whilst you still have time he he
    Originally posted by robpw2
    We will have at least a 2 year transition, and then I don't expect any change.

    • esuhl
    • By esuhl 26th Jan 18, 1:13 PM
    • 8,158 Posts
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    esuhl
    • #4
    • 26th Jan 18, 1:13 PM
    • #4
    • 26th Jan 18, 1:13 PM
    Good grief! I never knew that! I'm astounded.

    In Scotland the rules were changed in 2005 so that an employee of a local authority could stand for election to that authority, and would only have to resign their employment if they were elected.
    Originally posted by sevenhills
    ^^ How very sensible. Let's adopt the same laws in the rest of the UK.
    • sevenhills
    • By sevenhills 26th Jan 18, 8:14 PM
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    sevenhills
    • #5
    • 26th Jan 18, 8:14 PM
    • #5
    • 26th Jan 18, 8:14 PM
    Good grief! I never knew that! I'm astounded.

    ^^ How very sensible. Let's adopt the same laws in the rest of the UK.
    Originally posted by esuhl
    "The Labour party commented “In general, employment disqualifications should take effect when the candidate is elected. Other disqualifications including bankruptcy, previous convictions and prison sentences should take effect at the time of nomination”. This view was broadly supported by the Liberal Democrats, the DUP, Plaid Cymru and the Green Party in England and Wales and Northern Ireland. The Conservative Party on the other hand stated “There would be advantages in having a standard date of disqualification - that date should sensibly be the date of nomination."

    No surprise that the Conservatives are the odd man out and do not want a change.

    • martinsurrey
    • By martinsurrey 5th Feb 18, 1:14 PM
    • 3,340 Posts
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    martinsurrey
    • #6
    • 5th Feb 18, 1:14 PM
    • #6
    • 5th Feb 18, 1:14 PM
    "The Labour party commented “In general, employment disqualifications should take effect when the candidate is elected. Other disqualifications including bankruptcy, previous convictions and prison sentences should take effect at the time of nomination”. This view was broadly supported by the Liberal Democrats, the DUP, Plaid Cymru and the Green Party in England and Wales and Northern Ireland. The Conservative Party on the other hand stated “There would be advantages in having a standard date of disqualification - that date should sensibly be the date of nomination."

    No surprise that the Conservatives are the odd man out and do not want a change.
    Originally posted by sevenhills
    What do you do when someone wins an election but refuses to resign?

    re run the vote, at huge expense?
    • martinsurrey
    • By martinsurrey 5th Feb 18, 1:31 PM
    • 3,340 Posts
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    martinsurrey
    • #7
    • 5th Feb 18, 1:31 PM
    • #7
    • 5th Feb 18, 1:31 PM
    "The Labour party commented “In general, employment disqualifications should take effect when the candidate is elected. Other disqualifications including bankruptcy, previous convictions and prison sentences should take effect at the time of nomination”. This view was broadly supported by the Liberal Democrats, the DUP, Plaid Cymru and the Green Party in England and Wales and Northern Ireland. The Conservative Party on the other hand stated “There would be advantages in having a standard date of disqualification - that date should sensibly be the date of nomination."

    No surprise that the Conservatives are the odd man out and do not want a change.
    Originally posted by sevenhills
    What do you do when someone wins an election but refuses to resign?

    re run the vote, at huge expense?
    Originally posted by martinsurrey
    to add on to my question above.

    What do you do if someone wins the election but has a 6 month notice period (can be the case in higher positions)?

    The first council meeting is 2 weeks after the election, and the now member will still have 5.5 months employed by the authority they now oversee.
    • sevenhills
    • By sevenhills 6th Feb 18, 11:04 AM
    • 1,171 Posts
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    sevenhills
    • #8
    • 6th Feb 18, 11:04 AM
    • #8
    • 6th Feb 18, 11:04 AM
    What do you do when someone wins an election but refuses to resign?

    re run the vote, at huge expense?
    Originally posted by martinsurrey
    A person cannot stand if they hold a politically restricted post; which would mean that all the other workers have no political influence - even though they work for the local authority.

    However, if you are elected, you must resign your office, employment or other place of profit on the first working day after you have been elected if you want to take up your seat. Your resignation will take immediate effect regardless of any notice period previously specified.

    The above are the rules that are in place, in Scotland.


    • Enterprise 1701C
    • By Enterprise 1701C 7th Feb 18, 7:48 AM
    • 19,336 Posts
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    Enterprise 1701C
    • #9
    • 7th Feb 18, 7:48 AM
    • #9
    • 7th Feb 18, 7:48 AM
    I am struggling to see how standing for election is a human right?

    I would never consider it as such, it is something a lot of people choose to do, but if we go down this path we will get totally unsuitable people trying to do so when they would not get a job any other way.

    Also you have to take into account people that have no desire to do the job but would just stand and get elected anyway, possibly through intimidation or the such, as occurs in other countries.

    No, standing for election is not a human right.
    What is this life if, full of care, we have no time to stand and stare
    • martinsurrey
    • By martinsurrey 7th Feb 18, 8:45 AM
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    martinsurrey
    A person cannot stand if they hold a politically restricted post; which would mean that all the other workers have no political influence - even though they work for the local authority.

    However, if you are elected, you must resign your office, employment or other place of profit on the first working day after you have been elected if you want to take up your seat. Your resignation will take immediate effect regardless of any notice period previously specified.

    The above are the rules that are in place, in Scotland.

    Originally posted by sevenhills
    So its okay for the head of a department, say adult social care to just not turn up to work, leaving the department without a leader for the months it takes to replace them, and giving no handover to the new person? they are in the middle of a serious reorganisation and just "poof" - gone.

    Seems pretty bad for the department concerned, and bad for the people who use the services.
    • sevenhills
    • By sevenhills 7th Feb 18, 10:49 AM
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    • 434 Thanks
    sevenhills
    So its okay for the head of a department, say adult social care to just not turn up to work, leaving the department without a leader for the months it takes to replace them, and giving no handover to the new person? they are in the middle of a serious reorganisation and just "poof" - gone.

    Seems pretty bad for the department concerned, and bad for the people who use the services.
    Originally posted by martinsurrey
    Any head of department may well be considered to be working in a politically sensitive role, and would be disqualified from standing.

    • sevenhills
    • By sevenhills 7th Feb 18, 10:52 AM
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    • 434 Thanks
    sevenhills
    Also you have to take into account people that have no desire to do the job but would just stand and get elected anyway, possibly through intimidation or the such, as occurs in other countries.

    No, standing for election is not a human right.
    Originally posted by Enterprise 1701C
    See my reply to martinsurrey, people that hold high office still cannot stand, an ordinary worker cannot 'intimidate' anyone.

    This new rule would allow millions of ordinary workers, to do what the rest of the population can, stand for election.

    • sevenhills
    • By sevenhills 8th Feb 18, 1:29 PM
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    • 434 Thanks
    sevenhills
    Article 3 of the First Protocol: Right to free elections

    There is also a right to stand for election to the legislature, which includes a right to sit as a member of the legislature once elected. There can be restrictions on who is eligible to stand for election but eligibility procedures must contain sufficient safeguards to prevent arbitrary decisions.



    https://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/human-rights/what-are-human-rights/human-rights-act/article-3-first-protocol-right-free-elections

    • unforeseen
    • By unforeseen 8th Feb 18, 1:49 PM
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    unforeseen
    Current rules fit in with article 3
    • sevenhills
    • By sevenhills 8th Feb 18, 2:03 PM
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    • 434 Thanks
    sevenhills
    Current rules fit in with article 3
    Originally posted by unforeseen
    England and Scotland have different rules, I believe the rules in Scotland are better.

    • martinsurrey
    • By martinsurrey 9th Feb 18, 10:05 AM
    • 3,340 Posts
    • 4,092 Thanks
    martinsurrey
    See my reply to martinsurrey, people that hold high office still cannot stand, an ordinary worker cannot 'intimidate' anyone.

    This new rule would allow millions of ordinary workers, to do what the rest of the population can, stand for election.
    Originally posted by sevenhills

    Where do you draw the line? someone working in child services on a case of an abused child, one day is working on it, the next day never comes back.

    And the Scotland rules dont give council employees the same rights as everyone else, they give them more.

    If I run for office and win, I still have to serve out my notice period at work, or be sued for breach of contract, and receive a very poor reference if i was to ever need one. Which means in reality I cant stand, while the no notice resignation in the council means an employee can stand at will and risk nothing.
    • unforeseen
    • By unforeseen 9th Feb 18, 10:20 AM
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    unforeseen
    England and Scotland have different rules, I believe the rules in Scotland are better.
    Originally posted by sevenhills
    Yes but they both fit in to article 3
    • sevenhills
    • By sevenhills 9th Feb 18, 10:47 AM
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    sevenhills
    Yes but they both fit in to article 3
    Originally posted by unforeseen
    I don't believe they do; I would give a solicitor £500 to take the case forward, but that might not be enough.

    eligibility procedures must contain sufficient safeguards to prevent arbitrary decisions.
    Disqualifying over 5 million people is "arbitrary", in my opinion.

    Its a sledge hammer to crack a nut. There may be people within that 5 million that have influence and should not stand, I am not one of them.
    Last edited by sevenhills; 09-02-2018 at 5:44 PM.

    • sevenhills
    • By sevenhills 9th Feb 18, 10:52 AM
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    • 434 Thanks
    sevenhills
    If I run for office and win, I still have to serve out my notice period at work, or be sued for breach of contract, and receive a very poor reference if i was to ever need one. Which means in reality I cant stand, while the no notice resignation in the council means an employee can stand at will and risk nothing.
    Originally posted by martinsurrey
    When the rules says "Your resignation will take immediate effect regardless of any notice period previously specified.", I do not think you will be sued if you are following the law of the land.

    • unforeseen
    • By unforeseen 9th Feb 18, 11:56 AM
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    unforeseen
    I don't believe they do; I would give a solicitor £500 to take the case forward, but that might no be enough.



    Disqualifying over 5 million people is "arbitrary", in my opinion.

    Its a sledge hammer to crack a nut. There may be people within that 5 million that have influence and should not stand, I am not one of them.
    Originally posted by sevenhills
    That's lucky, you have saved yourself £500+
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