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  • FIRST POST
    • Guru86
    • By Guru86 22nd Jan 18, 12:17 PM
    • 234Posts
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    Guru86
    About to set up s&s LISA
    • #1
    • 22nd Jan 18, 12:17 PM
    About to set up s&s LISA 22nd Jan 18 at 12:17 PM
    Good Afternoon

    I am going to open a s&s LISA at the end of the month for the wife. Not a big pot 250 initial deposit then 50 a month (which will go up on pay rises etc. Over the years)

    Looking into it I think I need something like a vanguard 80 due to long term investment?

    Been looking at H&L do they do the above on a LISA or should i be looking elsewhere?

    Thanks in advande
Page 1
    • TheShape
    • By TheShape 22nd Jan 18, 12:41 PM
    • 1,266 Posts
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    TheShape
    • #2
    • 22nd Jan 18, 12:41 PM
    • #2
    • 22nd Jan 18, 12:41 PM
    Vanguard Lifestrategy 80 is available through HL.
    • Alexland
    • By Alexland 22nd Jan 18, 2:06 PM
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    Alexland
    • #3
    • 22nd Jan 18, 2:06 PM
    • #3
    • 22nd Jan 18, 2:06 PM
    Or Blackrock Consensus 85 would be 0.13% cheaper on HL than VLS80.

    If your wife is employed is she already contributing enough to her workplace pension to get maximum employer contributions? This can be better than contributing to a LISA.
    Last edited by Alexland; 22-01-2018 at 3:08 PM.
    • Guru86
    • By Guru86 22nd Jan 18, 5:55 PM
    • 234 Posts
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    Guru86
    • #4
    • 22nd Jan 18, 5:55 PM
    • #4
    • 22nd Jan 18, 5:55 PM
    Thanks. Yes unfortunately she is it's not the best so just looking at something to compliment it.
    • ValiantSon
    • By ValiantSon 22nd Jan 18, 10:11 PM
    • 1,586 Posts
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    ValiantSon
    • #5
    • 22nd Jan 18, 10:11 PM
    • #5
    • 22nd Jan 18, 10:11 PM
    As Alex says, take a look at the Blackrock Consensus 85 fund as well as VLS80. If you are investing through an HL LISA the Blackrock fund is available at a discount.

    http://www.hl.co.uk/funds/fund-discounts,-prices--and--factsheets/search-results/b/blackrock-consensus-85-class-i-accumulation

    http://www.hl.co.uk/funds/fund-discounts,-prices--and--factsheets/search-results/v/vanguard-lifestrategy-80-equity-accumulation
    • Guru86
    • By Guru86 23rd Jan 18, 9:07 AM
    • 234 Posts
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    Guru86
    • #6
    • 23rd Jan 18, 9:07 AM
    • #6
    • 23rd Jan 18, 9:07 AM
    Thanks so is it the it going charge I need to look at for charges?
    • Alexland
    • By Alexland 23rd Jan 18, 1:16 PM
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    Alexland
    • #7
    • 23rd Jan 18, 1:16 PM
    • #7
    • 23rd Jan 18, 1:16 PM
    Thanks so is it the it going charge I need to look at for charges?
    Originally posted by Guru86
    HL will charge you 0.45% from the cash balance of your account (or your fund & share account) and the fund manager will charge you the Net Ongoing Charge (after any discounts to the Ongoing Charge). You will never see the fund charge being deducted as it occurs within the fund so affects the unit valuations you will just have to trust them.

    Blackrock and Vanguard are the world's biggest fund managers and their Consensus and LifeStrategy series are very similar. From memory the Blackrock has a lower UK bias than Vanguard.

    Your net ongoing charge for Blackrock Consensus 85 is normally 0.22% but HL have a class of units where this had been discounted to 0.09%. The cost of VLS is 0.22% with no discount available. As such the Blackrock fund is 0.13% cheaper.

    Alex
    Last edited by Alexland; 23-01-2018 at 7:26 PM.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 23rd Jan 18, 5:22 PM
    • 92,149 Posts
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    dunstonh
    • #8
    • 23rd Jan 18, 5:22 PM
    • #8
    • 23rd Jan 18, 5:22 PM
    Or Blackrock Consensus 85 would be 0.13% cheaper on HL than VLS80.

    If your wife is employed is she already contributing enough to her workplace pension to get maximum employer contributions? This can be better than contributing to a LISA.
    Originally posted by Alexland
    Charges have changed because of MiFID II disclosure

    Consensus 85 is 0.25%
    VLS80 is 0.32%
    L&GMI 6 have a reporting error at the moment (Transaction Cost Ex Ante is showing is -0.06%!)
    HSBC GSD is 0.23%

    OCF is no longer the figure that matters.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • TheShape
    • By TheShape 23rd Jan 18, 6:02 PM
    • 1,266 Posts
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    TheShape
    • #9
    • 23rd Jan 18, 6:02 PM
    • #9
    • 23rd Jan 18, 6:02 PM
    Charges have changed because of MiFID II disclosure

    Consensus 85 is 0.25%
    VLS80 is 0.32%
    L&GMI 6 have a reporting error at the moment (Transaction Cost Ex Ante is showing is -0.06%!)
    HSBC GSD is 0.23%

    OCF is no longer the figure that matters.
    Originally posted by dunstonh
    Dunstonh,

    This is a significant change in charges. Where are these new charges to be found?

    It's not obvious from looking, for example, on HLs site or on the KIID.

    Have the actual charges themselves increased or
    are the charges just reported differently? If the charges have increased, why?
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 23rd Jan 18, 6:51 PM
    • 92,149 Posts
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    dunstonh
    This is a significant change in charges. Where are these new charges to be found?
    I am seeing the revised charges on financial express. They added a tab for MiFID II data a few days ago. Trustnet is cut down from FE but charges are the sort of things you expect to see. So, they will probably port some of the data to Trustnet soon.

    Most of the advice platforms are now showing the new data. I dont know when HL will update theirs.

    Vanguard are showing the new charges in their 2018 charges document.
    https://www.vanguardinvestor.co.uk/content/documents/legal/vanguard-full-fund-costs-and-charges-2018.pdf

    Have the actual charges themselves increased or
    are the charges just reported differently? If the charges have increased, why?
    The reporting of charges is different.

    A bit like when we had AMC and then TER and then OCF. Now there is the total cost of investing figure which is broken down by OCF + transaction costs + incidental costs (and if using a platform and/or adviser, both of those need to be included. However, we are seeing the figures shown individually)

    In the case of VLS60, it is:
    OCF = 0.22%
    Transaction costs = 0.11%
    Incidental costs = 0.00%
    Total cost = 0.33% (plus platform plus adviser where applicable)

    in the case of HSBC GS Bal
    OCF = 0.19%
    Transaction costs = 0.01%
    Incidental costs = 0.00%
    Total cost = 0.20% (plus platform plus adviser where applicable)

    Bit more info:
    https://www.investmentweek.co.uk/investment-week/news/3024902/mifid-ii-exposes-hidden-investment-management-charges
    https://www.ft.com/content/78918c88-fd13-11e7-a492-2c9be7f3120a
    https://www.moneymarketing.co.uk/fund-managers-fees-outed-mifid-ii-disclosure-rules-take-effect/
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • Alexland
    • By Alexland 23rd Jan 18, 7:25 PM
    • 2,236 Posts
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    Alexland
    In the case of VLS60, it is:
    OCF = 0.22%
    Transaction costs = 0.11%
    Incidental costs = 0.00%
    Total cost = 0.33% (plus platform plus adviser where applicable)

    in the case of HSBC GS Bal
    OCF = 0.19%
    Transaction costs = 0.01%
    Incidental costs = 0.00%
    Total cost = 0.20% (plus platform plus adviser where applicable)
    Originally posted by dunstonh
    I had read the Vanguard PDF but wasn't aware that HSBC or Blackrock had published their data yet so didn't mention it.

    With Consensus 85 the OP would still get their 0.13% discount but I guess your data is saying their is 0.03% of additional costs to consider compared to 0.10% of additional VLS80 costs to consider. As such even more reason for the OP to consider Blackrock above VLS.

    I don't have much in VLS anymore but I wonder why their costs are being reported as multiples of their competitors? Do you think there are some differences in how they are capturing the data?

    Alex
    Last edited by Alexland; 23-01-2018 at 7:29 PM.
    • Guru86
    • By Guru86 8th Feb 18, 12:25 PM
    • 234 Posts
    • 25 Thanks
    Guru86
    Hello

    I have just opened up the LISA with blackrock consensus 85. I take it now I just leave it and take a look every year to make sure fees still lowest?

    When I get to the 50 age point I assume I look to go for less risk ?
    • Alexland
    • By Alexland 8th Feb 18, 4:09 PM
    • 2,236 Posts
    • 1,628 Thanks
    Alexland
    Hello

    I have just opened up the LISA with blackrock consensus 85. I take it now I just leave it and take a look every year to make sure fees still lowest?

    When I get to the 50 age point I assume I look to go for less risk ?
    Originally posted by Guru86
    Yup that doesn't sound like an unreasonable approach. Make sure you have enough cash in your account to pay the platform fees otherwise you will see additional fees when you login next year.

    Alex.
    • Guru86
    • By Guru86 8th Feb 18, 5:17 PM
    • 234 Posts
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    Guru86
    Thanks do I just leave some cash in there not invested to cover the fees?
    • Alexland
    • By Alexland 8th Feb 18, 7:43 PM
    • 2,236 Posts
    • 1,628 Thanks
    Alexland
    You can do or with HL then you can use the Fund and Share account to pay the fees outside the LISA. Maybe setup a regular contribution with an initial balance that comfortably covers the regular fee deduction and review with growth, losses or contributions?

    http://www.hl.co.uk/help#charges-and-fees/collecting-charges/collecting-charges/how-will-the-charge-be-collected
    Last edited by Alexland; 08-02-2018 at 7:47 PM. Reason: Added link
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