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  • FIRST POST
    • jac265
    • By jac265 21st Jan 18, 7:51 PM
    • 25Posts
    • 8Thanks
    jac265
    Indigo - appeal to pcn or wait for NtK?
    • #1
    • 21st Jan 18, 7:51 PM
    Indigo - appeal to pcn or wait for NtK? 21st Jan 18 at 7:51 PM
    The driver received a pcn for parking in a station car park having paid using the app but entered the incorrect registration by one letter. In the light of the fact that indigo is denying an appeal to POPLA is it worth making an appeal to indigo’s pcn or just wait for the NtK?
    Thank you.
Page 2
    • waamo
    • By waamo 20th Mar 18, 2:24 PM
    • 3,240 Posts
    • 4,286 Thanks
    waamo
    As a private company the individual doing the clamping would need an SIA licence. Given you can no longer get one good luck with that.
    This space for hire.
    • Handbags-at-dawn
    • By Handbags-at-dawn 20th Mar 18, 2:42 PM
    • 115 Posts
    • 244 Thanks
    Handbags-at-dawn
    Also, they themselves describe the "penalty" as an offer to avoid prosecution. The whole point of an offer is you can reject it if you want to. So a demand that you accept the offer - ie pay up - is wholly unwarranted ; and threatening to clamp until you do so is an offence contrary to s 21 Theft Act 1968 (unwarranted demand with menaces, more commonly known as blackmail).

    They would be taking a huge risk if they tried it.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 20th Mar 18, 2:51 PM
    • 2,310 Posts
    • 4,119 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    Ask him gosner@zzps.co.uk
    Idiots please note: If you intend NOT to read the information on the Notice of Allocation and hand a simple win to the knuckle dragging ex-clampers, then don't waste people's time with questions on a claim you'll not defend.
    • financerulez
    • By financerulez 20th Mar 18, 3:24 PM
    • 103 Posts
    • 186 Thanks
    financerulez
    No chance they'll clamp. The byelaws were written when clamping was allowed. Note also that the byelaws say they can clamp for a breach, not an alleged breach. Unless the driver has been proven guilty in Mag Court, there is no breach.

    If they did clamp they'll get absolutely obliterated in court, and you'll get a nice fat payout.

    P.S. They won't clamp.
    • financerulez
    • By financerulez 20th Mar 18, 3:29 PM
    • 103 Posts
    • 186 Thanks
    financerulez
    Thanks everyone. So my appeal was unsurprisingly, rejected by ZZPS on the grounds that Railway Byelaw 14 (4) (i) makes an owner liable whether the driver or not. They gave me another 2 weeks to pay up which expires this week. so i am going to ask for a POPLA code which I know they will refuse and then wait for the solicitors letters. My concern however is their threat to clamp - the car is parked regularly at the station. Has anyone heard of a car being clamped recently for unpaid penalty notices? I know it is questionable whether they have lawful authority to do so but I suspect that won't stop them!
    Originally posted by jac265
    Tell them to go chase the owner then, they don't know who owns the car. You can say your V5C states this is not proof of ownership.

    Would be interested to see what they reply if you literally tell them:
    "What is the owner liable for? No breach has occurred."
    Include that line somewhere in your reply, will be funny to see whether they will be willing to directly lie about the law.

    Good point re POPLA, when they reject that and give the reason in a few weeks, you then ask for alternative dispute resolution instead!
    • jac265
    • By jac265 21st Mar 18, 9:25 AM
    • 25 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    jac265
    Thanks everyone. Interesting that the station is one of those mentioned in the Guardian article and it has put up signs saying that wheel clamping will be used and the driver noticed that a car had been clamped last week which he has never seen before in all of the years (and that's a long time!) of using the car park.
    Is the right to an appeal under POPLA in POFA? Thanks
    And good point re the V5 - I hadn't noticed the significance of that until now!
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 21st Mar 18, 10:27 AM
    • 2,491 Posts
    • 3,039 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    POFA doesnt require an appeal service, however the ADR 2015 regs state this should be available, and is indeed a REASONABLE request to make, such that refusing it is UNreasonable behaviour by them.

    If a car was clamped it could be DVLA - they can clamp - the TOC cannot.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 21st Mar 18, 7:18 PM
    • 57,473 Posts
    • 71,073 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I'd say the TOC might think they can. R Bostock is the person who pushes for info on this:

    https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/railway_byelaw_144iii

    Clear as mud.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • jac265
    • By jac265 7th Apr 18, 7:10 PM
    • 25 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    jac265
    Ok so I have finally received a reply from DVLA and it was Indigo Park Solutions UK ltd who requested the keeper details and the enquring reason is !!!8216;breach of terms and conditions of a private car park!!!8217;. The letter from DVLA is 2 pages long - are they normally that lengthy? I would upload it - how do I do that?
    • twhitehousescat
    • By twhitehousescat 7th Apr 18, 7:19 PM
    • 1,287 Posts
    • 1,741 Thanks
    twhitehousescat
    any company asking the DVLA for details , must be a member of a recognised ATA and offer an alternate appeal system

    why are indigo getting details for a PARKING charge (breach of terms) and not offering POPLa or simular


    it stinks , its wrong neither you or I can change it , this french company is trowsering thousands by doing this
    Time pretending I was asleep whilst under his desk , has given me insight to this sordid world
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 7th Apr 18, 7:33 PM
    • 7,213 Posts
    • 6,717 Thanks
    KeithP
    I would upload it - how do I do that?
    Originally posted by jac265
    Upload the image to somewhere like dropbox, tinypic, etc and post a link here.
    Last edited by KeithP; 07-04-2018 at 8:19 PM.
    .
    • MalMonroe
    • By MalMonroe 7th Apr 18, 10:01 PM
    • 68 Posts
    • 60 Thanks
    MalMonroe
    Private parking companies aren't allowed to issue penalties or fines, are they???
    • waamo
    • By waamo 7th Apr 18, 10:30 PM
    • 3,240 Posts
    • 4,286 Thanks
    waamo
    Private parking companies aren't allowed to issue penalties or fines, are they???
    Originally posted by MalMonroe
    No but they aren't issuing a penalty or fine. What they are offering is for £100 they won't tell the train operating company it was you that broke the rules.

    It's an offer to pay a fixed amount to them in order to avoid prosecution where they get absolutely nothing.
    This space for hire.
    • twhitehousescat
    • By twhitehousescat 7th Apr 18, 10:36 PM
    • 1,287 Posts
    • 1,741 Thanks
    twhitehousescat
    No but they aren't issuing a penalty or fine. What they are offering is for £100 they won't tell the train operating company it was you that broke the rules.

    It's an offer to pay a fixed amount to them in order to avoid prosecution where they get absolutely nothing.
    Originally posted by waamo
    but but mister ,,,,,,,,,,,,, under DVLA rules they cant pass your info on to train company

    are they telling "porkie pies" and deceiving people?
    Time pretending I was asleep whilst under his desk , has given me insight to this sordid world
    • waamo
    • By waamo 7th Apr 18, 10:41 PM
    • 3,240 Posts
    • 4,286 Thanks
    waamo
    but but mister ,,,,,,,,,,,,, under DVLA rules they cant pass your info on to train company

    are they telling "porkie pies" and deceiving people?
    Originally posted by twhitehousescat
    I couldn't possibly comment. I did hear a rumour that Melton Mowbray was celebrating. Apparently some French geezer has been buying their famous products by the shed load.
    This space for hire.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 8th Apr 18, 12:51 AM
    • 57,473 Posts
    • 71,073 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Private parking companies aren't allowed to issue penalties or fines, are they???
    Originally posted by MalMonroe
    The BPA reckons they (particularly Indigo, and ParkingEye) can do what they like...it seems to us.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • jac265
    • By jac265 9th Apr 18, 9:43 AM
    • 25 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    jac265
    Thanks everyone. This is the link to my reply from DVLA.
    [IMG]http://www.dropbox.com/sh/l9ud1imygavk4hw/AAD_50qV9K5G0iOoZP_dMCyHa?dl=0[/IMG
    • twhitehousescat
    • By twhitehousescat 9th Apr 18, 10:38 AM
    • 1,287 Posts
    • 1,741 Thanks
    twhitehousescat
    that letter is a load of %%67cks , the are quoting POFa , whereas this compsany are not using it , nor cv is the land relivent

    the other thing , by using Kodoe access to get data , they must be pursuing a PARKING charge , all companies using Kodoe , must be in an ATA and offer an ADR

    that letter is Soooooooooooo wrong

    DVLA need challenging , v888/2 is for companies getting data , v888/3 and Kodoe are specific to PARKING
    Time pretending I was asleep whilst under his desk , has given me insight to this sordid world
    • financerulez
    • By financerulez 9th Apr 18, 1:14 PM
    • 103 Posts
    • 186 Thanks
    financerulez
    Now you 'know' they are relying on you naming the driver. They have stated the reasonable cause as breach of private t&cs - not breach of a byelaw. There's no keeper liability for this land, and you haven't named the driver, so guess what, you win.

    Perhaps a response to the DVLA telling them that Indigo are blending together criminal and civil law in an attempt to confuse consumers, and remind them that they have revoked access for this before. Also copy in the BPA.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Apr 18, 9:18 PM
    • 57,473 Posts
    • 71,073 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Definitely write back and call the DVLA out on citing the POFA when that is wholly misleading, cannot apply on railway land. Call them put on sending you template drivel excuses about being robust wardens of your data when they are nothing of the sort and should never have agreed to give data to private firms at all; an industry which has run away with the data, laughing all the way to the bank, abusing it every day to make registered keepers' lives a misery. Thanks to the DVLA.

    And ask why was the electronic KADOE link used to issue a Penalty Charge Notice, which was issued by a different company than the one which requested the data ('Solutions UK' as opposed to Services Ltd).

    Ask why Indigo are being allowed carte blanche to get data under excuse of 'contract breach on private land' when the PCN they then issue, says nothing of the sort, according to the PENALTY NOTICE. Complain also, that they then shared that data with another company (Services Ltd) and are passing their charge off as if it was issued under byelaws in order to duck POPLA.

    State that you require your contact to be registered as a formal complaint and that you intend to refer the complaint to the Information Commissioner, because the DVLA has taken no reasonable steps in your case at all, and has replied in a way that shows they use template letters to pay lip service to looking after motorists data, and carry out no checks whatsoever, even when replying to complaints.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 09-04-2018 at 9:23 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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