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  • FIRST POST
    • UnicornBlood
    • By UnicornBlood 16th Jan 18, 11:11 AM
    • 6Posts
    • 11Thanks
    UnicornBlood
    SUCCESS - EURO CAR PARK PCN - Sainsburys - HELP! - Ticket Cancelled.
    • #1
    • 16th Jan 18, 11:11 AM
    SUCCESS - EURO CAR PARK PCN - Sainsburys - HELP! - Ticket Cancelled. 16th Jan 18 at 11:11 AM
    Hi

    I got a PCN from EURO car park working on behalf of Sainsburys in England. Sainsburys being the landowner.
    It's a free car park with a maximum stay of 90 minutes. According to the PCN the driver overstayed the maximum time allowed and the pictures show that the car entered around 7:45pm and left 9:56pm.

    Looking at possible defences -

    It appears to me they have followed POFA for the notice to keeper etc- unless am I missing something? the PCN mentioned POFA and says

    "under paragraph 9(2)(b) of schedule 4 of the PFA 2012 that the driver of the vehicle is required to pay this parking charge in full. As we don't know the driver's name or postal address, if you were not the driver at the time, you should tell us the name and current postal address of the driver and pass this notice to them."

    goes on to say "you are advised that if after 29 days from the date given (which is presumed to be the second working day after the date issued) the parking charge has not been paid in full and we do not know both the name and the current address of the driver, we have the right to recover any unpaid part of the parking charge from you. This notice is given to you under paragraph 9(2)f of schedule 4 of the POFA 2012 and is subject to our complying with the applicable conditions under Schedule 4 of the Act."

    Seems like they are starting to get hot on being POFA Compliant? or is that just a bluff?

    Do they need to include an issue time? or does the posted PCN not need this. I think it might just be for the windscreen tickets unless someone tells me otherwise

    Should I request to see their contract with Sainsburys to see if there are any clauses which state that they cannot chase money? is this something anyone else has done and had any success with?

    Should they have written what the terms of the car park was on the PCN? for eg- the maximum stay was 90 minutes? I personally didn't know how much the driver had overstayed by the letter as it made no mention of the 90 minute limit and just includes pictures of my number plate with the date and time stamp underneath for entering and exiting. I had to research it to find out.

    Are any of these defences any good? or is there something else I could use?

    Thanks
    Last edited by UnicornBlood; 22-01-2018 at 5:16 PM. Reason: adding futher information
Page 1
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 16th Jan 18, 11:17 AM
    • 37,942 Posts
    • 22,055 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #2
    • 16th Jan 18, 11:17 AM
    • #2
    • 16th Jan 18, 11:17 AM
    You are asking for "defences"??


    If you have a court claim see #2 of the newbies faq thread near the top of the forum for advice on preparing a defence


    If you have just received a ticket you want to appeal, then the same FAQ thread has advice on how and when to appeal


    If the ppc don't know who was driving then edit your post to remove details of who was driving
    • UnicornBlood
    • By UnicornBlood 16th Jan 18, 11:22 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    UnicornBlood
    • #3
    • 16th Jan 18, 11:22 AM
    • #3
    • 16th Jan 18, 11:22 AM
    It's not yet gone to court. I'm still at the considering whether to appeal or pay. It's just if I appeal I like to know possible defences in case I need to go further.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 16th Jan 18, 11:27 AM
    • 37,766 Posts
    • 84,798 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #4
    • 16th Jan 18, 11:27 AM
    • #4
    • 16th Jan 18, 11:27 AM
    Nobody here will advise you to pay a scammer.

    Just read the NEWBIES thread then send the BPA template in blue. Meanwhile, complain to the manager/CEO of Sainsbugs about their agent harassing genuine customers.

    If/when the PPC reject your initial appeal, you make a second appeal to PoPLA using all the template points available from you in post 3 of the NEWBIES.

    The bit you have quoted from the NTK doesn't look like the wording in the POFA 2012 to me.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • UnicornBlood
    • By UnicornBlood 16th Jan 18, 12:02 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    UnicornBlood
    • #5
    • 16th Jan 18, 12:02 PM
    • #5
    • 16th Jan 18, 12:02 PM
    Ok I think I will give the appeal a go.

    If at the POPLA stage I happen to lose would I have to pay the full fine? or would I still have the option to pay the reduced fine?
    • Ralph-y
    • By Ralph-y 16th Jan 18, 12:28 PM
    • 2,862 Posts
    • 3,592 Thanks
    Ralph-y
    • #6
    • 16th Jan 18, 12:28 PM
    • #6
    • 16th Jan 18, 12:28 PM
    there is no fine to pay .... just a speculative invoice ....

    the discount ... erm ... bribe will go ...


    But!

    Sainsburys will cancel if you follow the advice given ....


    so complain

    and

    send the invoice


    Ralph
    Last edited by Ralph-y; 16-01-2018 at 6:23 PM.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 16th Jan 18, 1:10 PM
    • 3,921 Posts
    • 4,720 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    • #7
    • 16th Jan 18, 1:10 PM
    • #7
    • 16th Jan 18, 1:10 PM
    INdeed, complain to Sainsburys!
    It is NOT A FINE - noweher edoes it say it is, which is a bit of a clue! Its merely an invoice.
    • UnicornBlood
    • By UnicornBlood 16th Jan 18, 1:13 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    UnicornBlood
    • #8
    • 16th Jan 18, 1:13 PM
    • #8
    • 16th Jan 18, 1:13 PM
    Even if the driver has no proof they were shopping in Sainsbury's at the time?
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 16th Jan 18, 1:26 PM
    • 37,942 Posts
    • 22,055 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #9
    • 16th Jan 18, 1:26 PM
    • #9
    • 16th Jan 18, 1:26 PM
    Heard of "browsing/window shopping"?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 16th Jan 18, 1:30 PM
    • 10,665 Posts
    • 11,051 Thanks
    KeithP
    If you want to pay, that's fine.

    If you want to fight this then follow the guidance offered.

    Your choice.

    Stop putting obstacles in the way.
    .
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 16th Jan 18, 1:35 PM
    • 10,598 Posts
    • 10,429 Thanks
    The Deep
    And stop asking questions the answers to which are readily available by using a search engine.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Jan 18, 11:56 PM
    • 63,875 Posts
    • 76,536 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    It's not yet gone to court. I'm still at the considering whether to appeal or pay. It's just if I appeal I like to know possible defences in case I need to go further.
    Originally posted by UnicornBlood
    ...''yet''?!!

    Euro Car Parks haven't a clue about court, they admitted as much in a National newspaper.

    If you lose at POPLA you just ignore ECP like everyone (including me) used to, pre-POPLA. Over the years we all collected shedloads of silly letters from ECP, and nothing has changed re them.

    Not a single poster here actually falls victim to this scam and PAYS ECP re a fake PCN at Sainsburys.

    The NEWBIES thread tells you what to do and how to do it.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • waamo
    • By waamo 17th Jan 18, 12:01 AM
    • 4,711 Posts
    • 6,082 Thanks
    waamo
    Euro rarely issue court claims. See here

    http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/Euro_Car_Parks.html

    You’ve more chance of winning the lottery than getting court papers
    This space for hire.
    • UnicornBlood
    • By UnicornBlood 22nd Jan 18, 5:16 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    UnicornBlood
    Success!
    I complained to Sainsbury's CEO via email about the unfair ticket and they were kind enough to cancel the ticket for me. Nice response from Sainsbury's, my faith in customer service is restored.

    Thanks for all the helpful posts. I had read through hours of information on forums and drafted my appeal before I got the email to say it was cancelled. At least I'm better prepared if it ever happens again! which it hopefully won't!
    • Redx
    • By Redx 22nd Jan 18, 5:35 PM
    • 19,915 Posts
    • 25,206 Thanks
    Redx
    trust me , it will happen again

    probably on a supermarket car park, a hospital, a leisure centre , a GP`s surgery , a retail park , an airport or train station , a major tourist attraction , a fast food outlet , these sc@mmers infest all sorts of places

    so be forewarned and forearmed

    well done on this battle, prepare for the next , and read the signs and take pictures etc in future, plus do not throw away p&d tickets too quickly either

    https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/team-blog/2017/05/30/throwing-pay-display-ticket-away-use-cost-100/
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 22nd Jan 18, 5:50 PM
    • 20,246 Posts
    • 31,940 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    I complained to Sainsbury's CEO via email about the unfair ticket and they were kind enough to cancel the ticket for me. Nice response from Sainsbury's, my faith in customer service is restored.
    If they were being even marginally ‘kind enough’ they’d have sent you a voucher for some shopping. Remember it was Sainsbury’s who contracted this outfit (probably to chase off an odd fly-parker or two), but the collateral damage inflicted on genuine customers will ultimately rebound on the store’s profits.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 22nd Jan 18, 6:53 PM
    • 9,312 Posts
    • 12,243 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Well done, if you don't ask, you don't get

    Whilst they cancelled for you, tomorrow these
    parking cowboys will attack other customers and
    many will just pay up, most will not go to the
    CEO of sainsbury's or other supermarkets.
    Sadly with the likes of Sainsbury's, the penny has
    not dropped. Once burnt, twice shy for consumers.

    It's simple, Sainsury's and the rest knowingly
    employ scammers and they know their customers
    are given grief and taken to court

    That is NOT customer service
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
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