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  • FIRST POST
    • gailmartin1969
    • By gailmartin1969 16th Jan 18, 6:51 AM
    • 17Posts
    • 12Thanks
    gailmartin1969
    Horizon NTK
    • #1
    • 16th Jan 18, 6:51 AM
    Horizon NTK 16th Jan 18 at 6:51 AM
    Hello, its been a while but I'm back again, a slightly different issue this time

    Ok I've re-read the newbies thread and can't see anything that really matches our situation. We've received a NTK from Horizon for the Blackpool Sainsbury's car park BUT the problem is we weren't there, neither was our car and we live some 2 hour drive away.

    Obviously (tongue in cheek) I have my doubts about the legitimacy of the pictures, using my untrained eye, they look wrong and having been bit once previously we intend to appeal following their appeals process. However I'd be grateful for some advice on where to start, I can't use the templates letter as we weren't actually there. A search of threads that mention Horizon also doesn't really bring anything up for this situation.

    Am i better going down the route of of the BPA code of Practice Appendix B, Parking tickets, Section B7 Photographs? Any advise would be more than welcome.

    Many thanks
Page 1
    • bergkamp
    • By bergkamp 16th Jan 18, 8:46 AM
    • 172 Posts
    • 299 Thanks
    bergkamp
    • #2
    • 16th Jan 18, 8:46 AM
    • #2
    • 16th Jan 18, 8:46 AM
    Are you stating the date is wrong? Or the car has never been there?
    • gailmartin1969
    • By gailmartin1969 16th Jan 18, 8:49 AM
    • 17 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    gailmartin1969
    • #3
    • 16th Jan 18, 8:49 AM
    Horizo
    • #3
    • 16th Jan 18, 8:49 AM
    It was never there. It was sat on the drive at home the whole time horizon said it was parked in Blackpool

    Thanks
    Last edited by gailmartin1969; 16-01-2018 at 8:55 AM.
    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 16th Jan 18, 8:57 AM
    • 2,799 Posts
    • 4,199 Thanks
    fisherjim
    • #4
    • 16th Jan 18, 8:57 AM
    • #4
    • 16th Jan 18, 8:57 AM
    You don't need to search for identical Horizon posts on here, the PPC is largely irrelevant really, this is most probably down to their useless ANPR system similar to here>

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5774662&highlight=cloned
    • gailmartin1969
    • By gailmartin1969 16th Jan 18, 9:15 AM
    • 17 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    gailmartin1969
    • #5
    • 16th Jan 18, 9:15 AM
    • #5
    • 16th Jan 18, 9:15 AM
    Thanks Fisherjim . We dont believe the car has been cloned but pictures doctored.. Everything on that letter compared to the evidence they've sent is incorrect and I'll definitely be reporting to both establishments.

    I'm even contemplating contacting action fraud too. Cos it is. But back to the letter. Should I state all the abnormalities in their online appeals and the evidence also?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 16th Jan 18, 9:40 AM
    • 17,293 Posts
    • 27,250 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #6
    • 16th Jan 18, 9:40 AM
    • #6
    • 16th Jan 18, 9:40 AM
    Is the vehicle shown in the two photos the same make and model as yours? Are there any distinguishing features on your own (or the one in the photos) that can conclusively separate the vehicles from each other?

    Do you have proof that you were somewhere else on the day?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • gailmartin1969
    • By gailmartin1969 16th Jan 18, 10:40 AM
    • 17 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    gailmartin1969
    • #7
    • 16th Jan 18, 10:40 AM
    • #7
    • 16th Jan 18, 10:40 AM
    To be fair Umkomaa the photo is that bad you can't make out or see the registration clearly or the colour of the car, and yes our reg plate does have marks on which you can clearly see which are not shown on the so called evidence photos.

    No I'm afraid there are no pictures of our car elsewhere at the time.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 16th Jan 18, 12:44 PM
    • 17,293 Posts
    • 27,250 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #8
    • 16th Jan 18, 12:44 PM
    • #8
    • 16th Jan 18, 12:44 PM
    I would compose your own challenge telling them that neither you nor your vehicle were within x hours/x miles of the car park. Inform them you are copying this challenge to your MP as well as the DVLA and the BPA as their assertion that you/vehicle were at this car park is absolutely unfounded. Ask them to double check their records and images.

    david.dunford@dvla.gsi.gov.uk

    aos@britishparking.co.uk - FTAO Mr Steve Clark

    our reg plate does have marks on which you can clearly see which are not shown on the so called evidence photos
    The !!!8216;photo!!!8217; of your number plate is not actually a photograph of it, it is a facsimile with a VRM superimposed on it. So it won!!!8217;t show any distinguishing marks from your actual number plate.

    Any proof of your real whereabouts on the day? If so build that in to your challenge.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • gailmartin1969
    • By gailmartin1969 16th Jan 18, 1:14 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    gailmartin1969
    • #9
    • 16th Jan 18, 1:14 PM
    • #9
    • 16th Jan 18, 1:14 PM
    Thanks Again Umkomaas. You can't see the reg at all on the photo. How can that be provided as evidence. O will do as suggedted as the other main issue I have is that the image had clearly been tampered with. It's very easy to spot
    • gailmartin1969
    • By gailmartin1969 11th Feb 18, 6:30 AM
    • 17 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    gailmartin1969
    Can you believe the Bar Stewards have sent yet another NTK but for a different day. They haven't even bothered to respond to the first appeal yet. (not that I expected one) These guys need stopping, I am more than fuming!!!!
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 11th Feb 18, 7:37 AM
    • 17,293 Posts
    • 27,250 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Can you believe the Bar Stewards have sent yet another NTK but for a different day. They haven't even bothered to respond to the first appeal yet. (not that I expected one) These guys need stopping, I am more than fuming!!!!
    Originally posted by gailmartin1969
    So appeal that one in the same way as the other one. Each one must be dealt with separately, right the way through the process.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • gailmartin1969
    • By gailmartin1969 11th Feb 18, 8:14 AM
    • 17 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    gailmartin1969
    I will I'm just so mad
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 11th Feb 18, 10:53 AM
    • 9,053 Posts
    • 8,738 Thanks
    The Deep
    Personally, I would not appeal, neither to the PPC nor to PoPLA.

    I would write to them stating that they are mistaken and must cancel forthwith. Any further correspondence from them, or debt collectors/solicitors may be treated as harassment and a CCC issued.

    They may also have requested your details from the DVLA without cause, an offence under the DPA for which courts have awarded up to 750 damages.

    You can also complain to your local Council Trading Standards Department (not CAB) in writing) and, after watching this video from last week, your M.P.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    You have the reason here to create a huge fuss, and, if they do not apply some common sense, cost them quite a lot of money.
    Last edited by The Deep; 17-02-2018 at 10:15 AM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • gailmartin1969
    • By gailmartin1969 12th Feb 18, 8:36 AM
    • 17 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    gailmartin1969
    Thank you the Deep.

    I have a growing list of letters of complaint complete with doctored images to back them up.
    • gailmartin1969
    • By gailmartin1969 17th Feb 18, 8:33 AM
    • 17 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    gailmartin1969
    Thanks everyone. Just a quick update for you.

    Official complaint sent to to AOS at BPA, no response as yet.

    Letter sent to Sainsbury's regarding Horizons behaviour, they weren't very helpful to start with. I dont even think the read the letter and just sent a standard reply of nothing to do with us, but a reply email was followed up with thw management team.... or so they tell me.

    Letter to our local MP. Still waiting for a response.

    Official complaint to Horizon. Both PCN's cancelled with an explanation of how the APNR camera read the reg incorrectly, which is quite plausable seeing the evidence, but hey that could have been photoshopped too. Nothing about the altered images ...they will probably get a follow up email regarding that.

    All that remains is a complaint to DVLA, but given Horizons explanation mentioned above that may not be upheld.

    So a good outcome for us, but we shouldn't have to have done any of it in the first place. They've still breached the code several times by not making enough checks to warrant the PCN's and the fact those images were digitally altered.

    Again thanks to everyone who offered their assistance.
    Last edited by gailmartin1969; 17-02-2018 at 8:33 AM. Reason: Spelling error
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 17th Feb 18, 8:48 AM
    • 17,293 Posts
    • 27,250 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    All that remains is a complaint to DVLA, but given Horizons explanation mentioned above that may not be upheld.
    I'd still fire a complaint into the DVLA to report Horizon's admitted faulty ANPR system and ask the DVLA to suspend Horizon's access to data until the BPA has gone out to Horizon and undertaken a technical check and appraisal of the ANPR system and reported findings back to the DVLA.

    POPLA keep saying that ANPR systems are checked by the BPA when turning down appeals relating to inaccurate ANPR - so press the DVLA to get the BPA out with their screwdrivers and test meters, and let's see what they say.

    Please let us know what the DVLA say, as it will be very useful to quote whatever they say about BPA checks of ANPR.

    Good outcome for you in getting the tickets cancelled. Well done.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • waamo
    • By waamo 17th Feb 18, 9:46 AM
    • 3,000 Posts
    • 3,869 Thanks
    waamo
    You should complain to the DVLA. Just because Horizon tell you something it doesn't make it true.

    Horizon told you that your car was parked at Sainsburys. That wasn't true was it? Why should their assertion that the DVLA won't uphold a complaint be any truer?
    This space for hire.
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