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  • FIRST POST
    • andyca
    • By andyca 13th Jan 18, 11:46 PM
    • 128Posts
    • 37Thanks
    andyca
    Parked car hit and run - I'm at fault?
    • #1
    • 13th Jan 18, 11:46 PM
    Parked car hit and run - I'm at fault? 13th Jan 18 at 11:46 PM
    I picked up my first ever brand new car last year, and a couple of weeks later I was parked in a hospital car park and someone drove into it while it was unattended. It was dark and lashing it down with rain when I got in to drive home so I didn't notice, but the next morning I discovered well over £1000 of damage.

    I notified my insurance company, the police and tried to negotiate with the hospital for CCTV footage, but ultimately it was a dead end. The police said they would not be doing anything to try and locate the driver.

    My insurance has just come up for renewal and it's doubled. I did a comparison (Through MSE obviously) and my same insurer came up at half the price! I accepted the quote but I've just received a letter through saying I mis-declared the accident. I put other driver at fault, where the CUE database shows I was at fault.

    I'm going to call my insurers underwriters in the morning to try and sort this out but I was wondering if anyone can offer any advice?
    Am I at fault in the eyes of the insurers?
    Can I get this overturned?

    The difference in my fault vs. the other driver is £600! At that rate they will have their money back for the claim in 2 years, and I'll still be declaring it for another 3!
    Last edited by andyca; 14-01-2018 at 12:06 AM. Reason: Adding punctuation
Page 1
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 13th Jan 18, 11:57 PM
    • 35,892 Posts
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    Quentin
    • #2
    • 13th Jan 18, 11:57 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Jan 18, 11:57 PM
    You claimed off your insurer. The third party you say did the damage was unidentified


    Thus your insurer had no one to get their outlay on your claim back from


    This means (in insurance speak) you have a "fault" claim to disclose.


    "fault" not meaning "blame".


    The CUE database is correct
    • andyca
    • By andyca 14th Jan 18, 12:14 AM
    • 128 Posts
    • 37 Thanks
    andyca
    • #3
    • 14th Jan 18, 12:14 AM
    • #3
    • 14th Jan 18, 12:14 AM
    Thanks for the quick reply Quentin, although I don't like the answer
    Am I wasting my time by calling he underwriter in that case?

    The claim was about £1200 and that is the same as my new quote!
    Doubling an insurance premium for something that really wasn't my fault just doesn't seem fair, there is no chance i'm going through insurance in the future, (which will actually be to the insurers benefit which is even more annoying) it's a terrible system which just rewards dishonesty. I really wish I hadn't claimed or called the Police.
    • csgohan4
    • By csgohan4 14th Jan 18, 8:40 AM
    • 4,541 Posts
    • 2,836 Thanks
    csgohan4
    • #4
    • 14th Jan 18, 8:40 AM
    • #4
    • 14th Jan 18, 8:40 AM
    you have to declare any accident anyways, whether you claim or not.
    "It is prudent when shopping for something important, not to limit yourself to Pound land"
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 14th Jan 18, 9:45 AM
    • 35,892 Posts
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    Quentin
    • #5
    • 14th Jan 18, 9:45 AM
    • #5
    • 14th Jan 18, 9:45 AM
    Thanks for the quick reply Quentin, although I don't like the answer
    Am I wasting my time by calling he underwriter in that case?

    The claim was about £1200 and that is the same as my new quote!
    Doubling an insurance premium for something that really wasn't my fault just doesn't seem fair, there is no chance i'm going through insurance in the future, (which will actually be to the insurers benefit which is even more annoying) it's a terrible system which just rewards dishonesty. I really wish I hadn't claimed or called the Police.
    Originally posted by andyca
    You could reimburse your insurer to change it to a no fault claim which sounds could be cost effective especially if you don't protect your NCD
    • andyca
    • By andyca 14th Jan 18, 10:40 AM
    • 128 Posts
    • 37 Thanks
    andyca
    • #6
    • 14th Jan 18, 10:40 AM
    • #6
    • 14th Jan 18, 10:40 AM
    NCD was protected, but iíll see about reimbursing that sounds like it might be a cheaper option.

    The galling thing is insurance is supposed to be based on how much of a risk I am to insure. Had the police found the person, or if they had left a note I would have paid probably £3000 less over the next 5 years. Neither of these actions have any baring on how much of a risk I am as an individual.

    And yes cgsohan4 you do ďhaveĒ to report all accidents but if I didnít I would be more than £2000 better off. (My excess was £275!)

    I think my new motto is; When it comes to car insurance dishonesty gets you the best policy.
    • katejo
    • By katejo 14th Jan 18, 5:35 PM
    • 3,074 Posts
    • 1,180 Thanks
    katejo
    • #7
    • 14th Jan 18, 5:35 PM
    • #7
    • 14th Jan 18, 5:35 PM
    NCD was protected, but iíll see about reimbursing that sounds like it might be a cheaper option.

    The galling thing is insurance is supposed to be based on how much of a risk I am to insure. Had the police found the person, or if they had left a note I would have paid probably £3000 less over the next 5 years. Neither of these actions have any baring on how much of a risk I am as an individual.

    And yes cgsohan4 you do ďhaveĒ to report all accidents but if I didnít I would be more than £2000 better off. (My excess was £275!)

    I think my new motto is; When it comes to car insurance dishonesty gets you the best policy.
    Originally posted by andyca
    i suspect that applies to various types of insurance. Take 2 people on holiday together. Both become ill. One has a successful claim because he has never had any medical tests done so doesn't know that he has a particular problem and pays a lower premium. The other one declared pre- existing conditions but forgot to mention 1 which happens to be the cause of his illness on holiday so his claim is refused.
    • stator
    • By stator 14th Jan 18, 5:40 PM
    • 6,295 Posts
    • 4,185 Thanks
    stator
    • #8
    • 14th Jan 18, 5:40 PM
    • #8
    • 14th Jan 18, 5:40 PM
    Did you try making a complaint to the hospital?
    Just because they accept no responsibility doesn't mean they have none.
    If they failed to co-operate with the police you should complain to the hospital and ask for them to reimburse you.
    They might reconsider if you start making a fuss and find the CCTV in order to shift the blame to the person responsible.
    Changing the world, one sarcastic comment at a time.
    • Aretnap
    • By Aretnap 14th Jan 18, 6:44 PM
    • 2,976 Posts
    • 2,490 Thanks
    Aretnap
    • #9
    • 14th Jan 18, 6:44 PM
    • #9
    • 14th Jan 18, 6:44 PM
    As mentioned, "fault" in insurance jargon refers to whether your insurer ended up paying for the repairs themselves, or whether they were able to recover their costs from some other party. In most cases this does actually mean the same as "blame" as if the other driver is to blame (and you can prove it) then the costs will ultimately be recoverable from his insurers. However it does have the side effect that things like theft, hit and runs and trees falling on your car end up being recorded as "fault", even though you may be blameless, just because there's nobody else to recover costs from.

    I agree that the use of the word "fault" is misleading and it would be better if insurers just asked something like "did your insurer make recovery from another party". However on the broader point there is a logic to classifying claims like this. It is at least clear and objective - two people can have very different views over who was to blame for an accident, but either your insurer recovered its costs or it didn't - there's no room for argument there.

    Perhaps insurers should have separate categories for hit and runs, thefts etc ve genuine fault accidents (or at least, accidents where no recovery was made from a known third party), and indeed some do ask for one of those categories rather than simply asking "fault or no fault". However that would have problems of its own. Talking of rewards for dishonesty, if you damaged your car driving into a tree there would be a massive incentive to claim that it was hit in the street by an unknown driver, if doing so made a big difference to your ongoing premiums...

    In terms of what you can practically do now, have you repeated the price comparison with the accident declared as a fault claim? You may find someone cheaper than what your current insurer is asking for. Different insurers have different target markets and different attitudes to risk, so the cheapest insurer for you with a no fault claim will not necessarily be the cheapest for you with a fault claim.
    • andyca
    • By andyca 14th Jan 18, 6:49 PM
    • 128 Posts
    • 37 Thanks
    andyca
    Did you try making a complaint to the hospital?
    Just because they accept no responsibility doesn't mean they have none.
    If they failed to co-operate with the police you should complain to the hospital and ask for them to reimburse you.
    They might reconsider if you start making a fuss and find the CCTV in order to shift the blame to the person responsible.
    Originally posted by stator
    Their CCTV system was decades old, the security guy said they had never managed to get a number plate from any car. I asked the hospital facilities manager about getting hold of CCTV and he refused on the basis that he would only be legally obliged to send footage of me, not my car and as such would not send me any footage from the car park while I was not in frame which would have been useless. he would only release footage of the carpark to the police but again he said it would be useless unless the person who hit me were in a sign written van with 3' lettering on the side.
    While the car park had did have terrible markings for the bays and no existent traffic flow system, I'm not a fan of the idea of trying to make a hospital pay out for a dishonest motorist. They have better things to spend money on, besides it was nearly a year ago now.
    I did follow up with the police but as I've already mentioned they said it was not something they would dedicate any resources to. More than hitting my car and damaging my property this person in effect has stolen over £3000 from me as well! If someone simply stole £3000 form a bank or post office i'm willing to bet the police would have dedicated at least some resource into finding the person responsible.
    Love the tagline BTW stator
    • andyca
    • By andyca 14th Jan 18, 7:12 PM
    • 128 Posts
    • 37 Thanks
    andyca
    As mentioned, "fault" in insurance jargon refers to whether your insurer ended up paying for the repairs themselves, or whether they were able to recover their costs from some other party. In most cases this does actually mean the same as "blame" as if the other driver is to blame (and you can prove it) then the costs will ultimately be recoverable from his insurers. However it does have the side effect that things like theft, hit and runs and trees falling on your car end up being recorded as "fault", even though you may be blameless, just because there's nobody else to recover costs from.

    I agree that the use of the word "fault" is misleading and it would be better if insurers just asked something like "did your insurer make recovery from another party". However on the broader point there is a logic to classifying claims like this. It is at least clear and objective - two people can have very different views over who was to blame for an accident, but either your insurer recovered its costs or it didn't - there's no room for argument there.

    Perhaps insurers should have separate categories for hit and runs, thefts etc ve genuine fault accidents (or at least, accidents where no recovery was made from a known third party), and indeed some do ask for one of those categories rather than simply asking "fault or no fault". However that would have problems of its own. Talking of rewards for dishonesty, if you damaged your car driving into a tree there would be a massive incentive to claim that it was hit in the street by an unknown driver, if doing so made a big difference to your ongoing premiums...

    In terms of what you can practically do now, have you repeated the price comparison with the accident declared as a fault claim? You may find someone cheaper than what your current insurer is asking for. Different insurers have different target markets and different attitudes to risk, so the cheapest insurer for you with a no fault claim will not necessarily be the cheapest for you with a fault claim.
    Originally posted by Aretnap
    Thanks for this reply, yes I've spent the day doing just that and I've found a few approx £400 more expensive so it's getting a bit cheaper but I'm having to work for it and they tend to be companies I've never heard of.

    My insurance company did not refuse to cover me, they just put up the price, so according to their letter I have to pay a £55 cancellation fee if I want to cancel the policy.

    I'm not ticking the "have you ever had insurance declined, cancelled, voided or special terms imposed" checkbox on these new comparison quotes... does this count as having "special terms imposed"?

    I don't even want to know what ticking that box will do to my premiums!
    • inglorius
    • By inglorius 14th Jan 18, 7:45 PM
    • 158 Posts
    • 32 Thanks
    inglorius
    Your insurers were unable to recover their losses from a 3rd party for the damage sustained to your car therefore you have to declare the incident as an at fault claim.
    • Korkyb
    • By Korkyb 19th Jan 18, 1:45 AM
    • 216 Posts
    • 102 Thanks
    Korkyb
    I agree that the system or reporting all incidents to your insurer is bonkers.

    Do we have to report every stonechip or kerbing damage to alloys?


    If the damage costs the price of a £3 chipstick to repair yourself should you report it.

    If not £3 then £30? ?300. Where is the threshold?

    My car was scraped in a car park & the other driver did a runner.

    I also asked re the CCTV and was told it was only given to police - (I'm sure the police have far better things to be doing).

    The repair cost me under £200 to sort. I wont be parking in that car park again & don`t believe I'm a greater risk than I was before (25+ year history of car insurance without any claims).

    The system does appear to be unfair on those who find themselves in similar situations.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 19th Jan 18, 9:30 AM
    • 35,892 Posts
    • 20,123 Thanks
    Quentin
    .

    My insurance company did not refuse to cover me, they just put up the price, so according to their letter I have to pay a £55 cancellation fee if I want to cancel the policy.
    Originally posted by andyca
    Did you renew with your insurer?


    Your OP says renewal has "just come up" - if your old policy hasn't expired yet then just let it lapse and go elsewhere.


    There is no cancellation fee to pay if you do this (though there will be if you did renew and now want out)
    • andyca
    • By andyca 19th Jan 18, 12:03 PM
    • 128 Posts
    • 37 Thanks
    andyca
    Did you renew with your insurer?


    Your OP says renewal has "just come up" - if your old policy hasn't expired yet then just let it lapse and go elsewhere.


    There is no cancellation fee to pay if you do this (though there will be if you did renew and now want out)
    Originally posted by Quentin
    My renewal was £1200, so I did a price comparison and my same insurance company gave me a quote of £600, then sent me a letter (after the policy was in place) saying I had misrepresented the claims and put the price back up again.
    By adding my partner and altering some of the options and increasing the excess by £600 I have got that down to less than £900.
    Still at least £300 more than I think I should be paying in the given circumstances.
    I decided not to call the underwriters as I thought it would only make me more annoyed. My insurer has said the "Value of the claim was £1 and that's what I should put when getting quotes" - anyone know why they say £1?
    This seems odd to me but if I ask the underwriters the real cost I might be obligated to put that in to the quote sites which I'm sure will push up the cost further.

    I agree that the system or reporting all incidents to your insurer is bonkers.

    Do we have to report every stonechip or kerbing damage to alloys?


    If the damage costs the price of a £3 chipstick to repair yourself should you report it.

    If not £3 then £30? ?300. Where is the threshold?

    My car was scraped in a car park & the other driver did a runner.

    I also asked re the CCTV and was told it was only given to police - (I'm sure the police have far better things to be doing).

    The repair cost me under £200 to sort. I wont be parking in that car park again & don`t believe I'm a greater risk than I was before (25+ year history of car insurance without any claims).

    The system does appear to be unfair on those who find themselves in similar situations.
    Originally posted by Korkyb
    Yes certainly I'm never putting another claim through like this, it's just not worth it. Any wheel repair, stone-chip on paintwork, or glass chip is also never going near the insurance company again.
    Last edited by andyca; 19-01-2018 at 5:47 PM.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 19th Jan 18, 1:08 PM
    • 35,892 Posts
    • 20,123 Thanks
    Quentin
    So the cancellation fee will be correct if you are actually cancelling the renewed policy

    Your earlier post states the claim cost £1200??

    So that £1 looks a typo
    Last edited by Quentin; 19-01-2018 at 1:11 PM.
    • andyca
    • By andyca 19th Jan 18, 1:33 PM
    • 128 Posts
    • 37 Thanks
    andyca
    I had a windscreen repair on there from a couple of years ago and that was also on CUE as a £1 claim, I asked the insurance agent and he said that a lot of claims are down as £1 but he didn't know why.

    I got an independent repair quote of £1200 while I was waiting for the insurance to sort it out, I don't know how much the insurance company actually paid the repair shop they used. other than it cost me my £275 excess. Maybe it was £276

    Also just to clarify letter came ~3 days after the insurance started so I was within 14 days cooling-off period but the policy had started. I was able to make the amendments and stay with my insurer (although I think it's a different underwriter) so the charge did not apply.
    Last edited by andyca; 19-01-2018 at 3:13 PM.
    • andyca
    • By andyca 19th Jan 18, 2:58 PM
    • 128 Posts
    • 37 Thanks
    andyca
    After realizing it might have been a very small amount I would have had to pay back to the underwriters I decided to give them a call and see.
    I explained the CUE had it down as a "fault" claim and asked if this was correct?

    To my surprise I was told it was not correct! Their system had the incident recorded as "Our file is closed, non-fault, (NCD disallowed)" and this is what appears on the CUE database for the incident. They are sending me a screenshot of the CUE and a letter to forward to my new insurer explaining it's a "non-fault" claim.

    They did say however they are not able to amend the CUE. But my letter from the insurance company says: "if they [the underwriters that covered the claim] agree the information on CUE is wrong, obtain a written confirmation from them with the correct details and confirmation they have updated the CUE"

    I never did ask how much the actual repair was, not much point if it was non-fault.
    I'll update when I have the screenshot and have sent the letter to my new insurer.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 19th Jan 18, 5:59 PM
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    • 20,123 Thanks
    Quentin
    If it's a no fault claim, then why did they disallow your NCD?? You don't lose any NCD after a no fault claim but it looks like you lost a NCD protection " life"

    Something not right!!
    Last edited by Quentin; 19-01-2018 at 6:03 PM.
    • andyca
    • By andyca 19th Jan 18, 6:53 PM
    • 128 Posts
    • 37 Thanks
    andyca
    Yes all very strange - my NCD was protected in any case, so I've not lost that.
    We'll see what happens when the letter comes through.
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