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  • FIRST POST
    • forgotmyname
    • By forgotmyname 13th Jan 18, 4:20 PM
    • 27,214Posts
    • 10,962Thanks
    forgotmyname
    Got one :) APCOA, B,Ham Airport Ibis Hotel
    • #1
    • 13th Jan 18, 4:20 PM
    Got one :) APCOA, B,Ham Airport Ibis Hotel 13th Jan 18 at 4:20 PM
    Finally got one with my name on it.

    Someone borrowed my car to drop people off a the Hotel because they bought a stupid 2 door coupe thing.

    My car looks good in their pictures though . Can I ask them for better quality pictures, I would like to frame them.

    Seems my car stopped on double red lines, which just happened to be in the hotel drop off bay. Are they stupid?
    The photo's clearly show in large text "Hotel drop off".
    The rest of the sign is unreadable from the photo, even from google maps its fuzzy.

    Pictures span a whole 11 seconds.

    Couldn't find any recent threads regarding airport property, but the PCN clearly says stopping on double red lines not parking.

    They claim my details under regulation 27(1)(e) Registration and Licencing Regulations 2002)
    Does this give them the right to the keepers details when they are not claiming its a parking incident?

    They claim its the Central Terminal Area, on the maps its actually Ambassador Road.

    Appears to be this drop off bay.

    https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.4526483,-1.7305195,3a,56y,284.1h,96.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sud-T-jLAlu0gmHGBV3iLbw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
    Punctuation, Spelling and Grammar will be used sparingly. Due to rising costs of inflation.

    My contribution to MSE. Other contributions will only be used if they cost me nothing.

    Due to me being a tight git.
Page 1
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 13th Jan 18, 4:37 PM
    • 4,394 Posts
    • 4,424 Thanks
    DoaM
    • #2
    • 13th Jan 18, 4:37 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Jan 18, 4:37 PM
    but the PCN clearly says stopping on double red lines not parking.

    They claim my details under regulation 27(1)(e) Registration and Licencing Regulations 2002)
    Does this give them the right to the keepers details when they are not claiming its a parking incident?
    Originally posted by forgotmyname
    As I understand it, POFA 2012 Schedule 4 relates to parking incidents only. Stopping (e.g. to drop off passengers) is not parking therefore (IMHO) your details were accessed unlawfully.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Jan 18, 4:47 PM
    • 58,434 Posts
    • 71,936 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #3
    • 13th Jan 18, 4:47 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Jan 18, 4:47 PM
    Maybe, but that doesn't win at POPLA.

    Luckily, APCOA are so easy for a keeper to beat anyway because their NTKs are not POFA worded.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 13th Jan 18, 4:59 PM
    • 36,801 Posts
    • 83,276 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #4
    • 13th Jan 18, 4:59 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Jan 18, 4:59 PM
    As well as appealing as per the blue template from the NEWBIES thread, you should complain to the DVLA, the BPA, and your MP about this.

    Read here what the judge said in the Jopson case which effectively defines the difference between stopping and parking.

    http://nebula.wsimg.com/f6d657adf7df70d27e1dd285688b5701?AccessKeyId=4CB8F 2392A09CF228A46&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

    The scammers have breached their Kadoe contract with the DVLA by accessing keeper details for a non parking event.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 14-01-2018 at 9:07 AM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Redx
    • By Redx 13th Jan 18, 5:23 PM
    • 18,334 Posts
    • 23,225 Thanks
    Redx
    • #5
    • 13th Jan 18, 5:23 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Jan 18, 5:23 PM
    just put BHX APCOA BIRMINGHAM into the drop down forum search box to find other similar BHX threads , including wordings for the popla appeal down the line

    no keeper liability and no transfer of liability from keeper to driver are just 2 of several appeal points

    the blue text template is the first one you appeal to apcoa with, from the NEWBIES sticky thread

    apcoa will throw the towel in when they see your forum aided popla appeal, same as all the others previously
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Johno100
    • By Johno100 13th Jan 18, 5:33 PM
    • 3,761 Posts
    • 4,423 Thanks
    Johno100
    • #6
    • 13th Jan 18, 5:33 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Jan 18, 5:33 PM
    Also throw in breaches of clauses 13.1 and 30.1 of the BPA Code of Practice (as amended).

    If a driver is parking without your permission, or at locations where parking is not normally permitted they must have the chance to read the terms and conditions before they enter into the ‘parking contract’ with you. If, having had that opportunity, they decide not to park but choose to leave the car park, you must provide them with a reasonable grace period to leave, as they will not be bound by your parking contract.
    when complaining to the BPA and appealing to APCOA.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 13th Jan 18, 5:40 PM
    • 17,992 Posts
    • 28,489 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #7
    • 13th Jan 18, 5:40 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Jan 18, 5:40 PM
    I think the OP is looking to cause APCOA some grief in parallel with obtaining an easy cancellation. If his/her intention is more than a simple cancellation perhaps a confirmation (or otherwise) here will help.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • forgotmyname
    • By forgotmyname 13th Jan 18, 9:28 PM
    • 27,214 Posts
    • 10,962 Thanks
    forgotmyname
    • #8
    • 13th Jan 18, 9:28 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Jan 18, 9:28 PM
    Thanks everyone.

    Umkomaas, If its worth a complaint then i am willing to put the extra few letters/emails in. This ticket is just ridiculous when the large lettering says dropoff point but I assume the small print on the sign says no stopping. Its not clear on the google maps/streetview but the sign saying dropping off is very clear.

    As mentioned above, correct no mention of POFA and no keeper liability mentioned other than name the driver or pay up.

    Not a parking event, dropping off in an area with a sign saying dropping off point. The pictures only show a 11 second timeframe. I doubt the driver stopped long.

    Fruitcake, your link doesnt work for me?

    They claim the signs are clear, but judging by the images from the google maps car, most are unreadable.

    It appears to be a very easy win for me with the large sign saying dropping off point visible in the picture but all other signs totally unreadable.
    Punctuation, Spelling and Grammar will be used sparingly. Due to rising costs of inflation.

    My contribution to MSE. Other contributions will only be used if they cost me nothing.

    Due to me being a tight git.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Jan 18, 10:53 PM
    • 58,434 Posts
    • 71,936 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 13th Jan 18, 10:53 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Jan 18, 10:53 PM
    It appears to be a very easy win for me with the large sign saying dropping off point visible in the picture but all other signs totally unreadable.
    Easier to win on 'no keeper liability'! In fact you could be brave and go for a one line appeal - even to POPLA!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • forgotmyname
    • By forgotmyname 13th Jan 18, 11:40 PM
    • 27,214 Posts
    • 10,962 Thanks
    forgotmyname
    Aww you just killed my life story appeal and shrunk it down to just 6 words, one comma and one full stop.

    But i like that Simple and to the point
    Punctuation, Spelling and Grammar will be used sparingly. Due to rising costs of inflation.

    My contribution to MSE. Other contributions will only be used if they cost me nothing.

    Due to me being a tight git.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 14th Jan 18, 11:05 AM
    • 9,493 Posts
    • 9,252 Thanks
    The Deep
    There have been several PCNs issued for this location. Lots of stuff here

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?source=hp&ei=PDlbWtGXHoKXgAaWh7Ro&q=Parking +fine+Ibis+birmingham+airport&oq=Parking+fine+Ibis +birmingham+airport&gs_l=psy-ab.3...1916.32100.0.35158.38.37.0.1.1.0.166.4036.1 0j27.37.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.36.3905...0j0i131k1j0i10k1j0i13k1j0i13i30k1j 0i8i13i30k1j33i22i29i30k1.0.cfYiE-ri8-Y
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 14th Jan 18, 11:21 AM
    • 36,801 Posts
    • 83,276 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    I don't know why my link to the Jopson case isn't working. I'm sure it is linked on the Parking-Prankster's blogspot so I will have another look for it.

    This is what the judge said in that case anyway.

    19
    The appellant’s case could also be put in another way. The purported
    prohibition was upon “parking”, and it is possible to draw a real and sensible
    distinction between pausing for a few moments or minutes to enable passengers to alight or for awkward or heavy items to be unloaded, and
    parking in the sense of leaving a car for some significant duration of time.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 14th Jan 18, 11:22 AM
    • 36,801 Posts
    • 83,276 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    I don't know why my link to the Jopson case isn't working.

    This is what the judge said in that case anyway.

    19
    The appellant’s case could also be put in another way. The purported
    prohibition was upon “parking”, and it is possible to draw a real and sensible
    distinction between pausing for a few moments or minutes to enable passengers to alight or for awkward or heavy items to be unloaded, and
    parking in the sense of leaving a car for some significant duration of time.

    Try this link.

    http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/JOPSON-V-HOMEGUARD-2906J-Approved.pdf
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • forgotmyname
    • By forgotmyname 15th Jan 18, 3:30 AM
    • 27,214 Posts
    • 10,962 Thanks
    forgotmyname
    Thanks Fruitcake that worked

    The Deep, yeah that was the first search i did and the posts seem to be from 2013 to 2016 with POPLA putting cases on hold because they didnt know if they had authority to deal with them.

    Letter says POPLA so hopefully we get that far
    Punctuation, Spelling and Grammar will be used sparingly. Due to rising costs of inflation.

    My contribution to MSE. Other contributions will only be used if they cost me nothing.

    Due to me being a tight git.
    • forgotmyname
    • By forgotmyname 21st Feb 18, 11:54 AM
    • 27,214 Posts
    • 10,962 Thanks
    forgotmyname
    Idiots have sent letter number two, they claim I have not filed an appeal and the full £100 is now payable.

    My emails prove otherwise, I have their thank you for your appeal email.

    Maybe they wanted an appead that was longer than a single line of text?
    Punctuation, Spelling and Grammar will be used sparingly. Due to rising costs of inflation.

    My contribution to MSE. Other contributions will only be used if they cost me nothing.

    Due to me being a tight git.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 21st Feb 18, 12:28 PM
    • 9,493 Posts
    • 9,252 Thanks
    The Deep
    A recent PoPLA win here


    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5460229
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • forgotmyname
    • By forgotmyname 21st Feb 18, 2:53 PM
    • 27,214 Posts
    • 10,962 Thanks
    forgotmyname
    No POPLA code though, they are claiming i have not appealed.

    Funny how i have the appeal email in my outbox and a return email stating they have received my appeal.
    Punctuation, Spelling and Grammar will be used sparingly. Due to rising costs of inflation.

    My contribution to MSE. Other contributions will only be used if they cost me nothing.

    Due to me being a tight git.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 21st Feb 18, 2:55 PM
    • 17,992 Posts
    • 28,489 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    No POPLA code though, they are claiming i have not appealed.

    Funny how i have the appeal email in my outbox and a return email stating they have received my appeal.
    Originally posted by forgotmyname
    Complaint to the BPA and copied to the DVLA asking them both to investigate.

    aos@britishparking.co.uk - FTAO Mr Steve Clark

    david.dunford@dvla.gsi.gov.uk
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 21st Feb 18, 5:01 PM
    • 9,493 Posts
    • 9,252 Thanks
    The Deep
    Let them claim what they please. It is what a judge thinks that matters.

    I do not know why people set such store by PoPLA. It is evident that some of the Assessors are not up to snuff, and that decisions are not reviewed at a more senior level.
    Last edited by The Deep; 21-02-2018 at 5:14 PM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
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