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  • FIRST POST
    • drewbydoo
    • By drewbydoo 12th Jan 18, 7:33 PM
    • 15Posts
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    drewbydoo
    Bad survey report and what happens next
    • #1
    • 12th Jan 18, 7:33 PM
    Bad survey report and what happens next 12th Jan 18 at 7:33 PM
    Hi Everyone.

    My fianc! and I are first time buyers and we recently found our dream house and had an offer accepted on it.

    Our mortgage application was in process and was awaiting an offer pending the valuation survey, which happened today.

    The survey (we went for the more detailed one, not the basic one) came back looking pretty bad, the surveyor basically said he didn't recommend we went for the house, and didn't even put a value estimate on the report (although did say in an email how much he thought it should be worth considering the repairs needed).

    So obviously now there's a few things going on, firstly, we might not now be offered the mortgage in which case, my question is; if we aren't, how does that affect us and our credit files? The lender has already checked our files and so I'd hope that there's now no reason to check again and damage our scores?

    If they DO still offer us a mortgage based on the survey, we can of course try and negotiate with the seller or back out, in which case my question would be is it realistic to expect the offer to be dropped to cover the entire cost of repair in it's entirety?

    Annoyingly, the house looked lovely inside and out to us, so I'm wondering exactly how much of the repair work is essential and immediate and how much is stuff that can be done over a certain time scale... I have a couple of contacts going over the report to give an idea how much we'll be looking at etc.

    Just kinda feel like we're still in limbo! Thanks in advance for your replies!
Page 1
    • SassySaver88
    • By SassySaver88 12th Jan 18, 10:16 PM
    • 77 Posts
    • 96 Thanks
    SassySaver88
    • #2
    • 12th Jan 18, 10:16 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Jan 18, 10:16 PM
    Hi Drew,

    Congrats on joining the first time buyer land

    Firstly your lender "may" not even lend you the mortgage if there is no valuation estimate on the report...it is that that they go on to check that they are going to get a return on their money if the property ever had to be sold.

    With regards to your credit files they will have been checked with a fine tooth comb during the mortgage application process and you will be expected to report back on any discrepancies that they find. It shouldnt be damaged but it will have highlighted that the lender has checked.

    In regards to the cost I would drop it gradually and see what the sellers come back with...it could be that they werent aware of any of the problems with the property. Another thing you could do is maybe approach the sellers direct with the home buyers report and maybe speak to them about it directly...are they approachable??

    Another thought, would it worth while contacting your solicitor and speaking through the report, sometimes things sound worse than they actually are so maybe you should seek a second opinion???

    Hope you seek clarification soon.

    xx
    • troffasky
    • By troffasky 12th Jan 18, 10:58 PM
    • 68 Posts
    • 41 Thanks
    troffasky
    • #3
    • 12th Jan 18, 10:58 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Jan 18, 10:58 PM
    What does the report actually say? How about posting the three worst things it says about the property to give us a feel for it?
    • G_M
    • By G_M 12th Jan 18, 11:41 PM
    • 44,392 Posts
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    G_M
    • #4
    • 12th Jan 18, 11:41 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Jan 18, 11:41 PM
    First thing is to decide if you still want the property, given what you now know about it.

    Next, wait for the lender. If they refuse to lend, you have 3 choices:
    * pay cash
    * re-apply to another lender and hope for a etter Valuation
    * walk away

    Your credit history should not be affected,

    I see no point in referring this to your solicitor - he's not a surveyor or trained in construction. He's a lawyer. He also does not know the extent or limitations of your DIY/building skills, or your lifestyle/preferences.

    Posting the key issues on the survey here might help. People here can then commet constructively.

    It may well be that getting builders round to provide quotes for the work needed would enable you to renegotiate the purchase price.
    • drewbydoo
    • By drewbydoo 14th Jan 18, 4:04 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    drewbydoo
    • #5
    • 14th Jan 18, 4:04 PM
    • #5
    • 14th Jan 18, 4:04 PM
    Thanks for all your suggestions and advice so far!

    The more I read the report, the more I'm put off if I'm honest. We really want to be able to move in and crack on with starting a family so with all the work that needs doing I think this may actually be end game for this house, which is a shame because it's lovely, and has so many good things about it and the location.

    Here's a few of the bigger things from the report:

    The main roof is pitched and covered with plain concrete tiles. The roof is lined internally with timber boarding although this is not as effective as a modern sarking felt. The rear and side extension flat roofs are covered with traditional mineral felt. The roof to the side extension was not visible from ground level so was not inspected.

    However, it is likely of similar age to the other roofs and can arguably be expected to be in a similar state of repair.

    FLAT ROOFS
    The rear extension flat roof coverings are torn, blistered and in poor condition. We expect the covering will be
    beyond repair and in need of full replacement.
    This is a risk to the building, and we refer you to our comments in section J.
    Condition Rating 3

    PITCHED ROOF
    The pitched roof covering appears in acceptable condition but coverings are weathered and a little uneven in
    places. The coverings should be regularly inspected and maintained in good condition as any minor disrepair could
    lead to significant leakage and decay.
    The absence of a proper lining under the roof covering is not unusual in a property of this age. As the roof is in satisfactory condition, we do not consider the risk of rain penetration significant enough to warrant the costly and disruptive work of removing the existing coverings to install such a barrier. Nevertheless, until this is undertaken, the roof coverings should be kept in good condition at all times. The roof space should also be checked periodically for any decay or disrepair.
    Condition Rating 1

    You should ask a roofing contractor to inspect the roofs, with the benefit of appropriate access equipment and to provide a quotation for the remedial work needed before exchange of contracts as the repairs/replacements are urgent and may be costly. You should follow the advice given in the page in this report entitled 'What to do now'.

    Because of height/orientation, access will be difficult and specialist equipment will be needed which may increase costs.

    The original building and side extension walls are of cavity construction with a rendered masonry outer leaf. The inner leaf is believed to be brick or concrete block. The walls contain a poured bitumen damp proof course. The front bay walls are partly clad with vertical tiles. The rear extension walls are of timber framed construction which consists of a structural timber framework which is most likely insulated internally, plastered to its inside face and
    then clad externally with plastic boarding.

    UPVC CLAD WALLS
    The timber frame rear extension appears to have been constructed using a single skin timber frame which is dry lined and plastered internally, insulated and clad externally with a uPVC ship lap cladding system. This type of construction is at high risk of damp and timber decay problems as it lacks satisfactory protection to its outer layer.
    As a result, a majority of high street lenders place lending restrictions of this type of property or refuse to lend on them entirely. If you were to purchase this property you would most likely need to consider providing a masonry or warranty approved external cladding system with these changes potentially being expensive and disruptive. High damp meter readings were recorded in the utility area, which we believe is a result of the high level of the external
    timber decking and poor surface drainage in the area. This could lead to decay of the structural frame of the extension and the need for comprehensive repair or replacement. This is a risk to the building, and we refer you to our comments in section J.
    Condition Rating 3

    RENDERED WALLS
    The rendered masonry walls are in satisfactory structural condition. The external surfaces are weathered but are in acceptable condition with no serious defects apparent. High damp meter readings were recorded in the front entrance lobby, to either side of the front door, which we believe is a result of the high level of the front entrance steps in relation to the damp proof course.

    This could lead to damp and timber decay. This is a risk to the building, and we refer you to our comments in section J.
    Condition Rating 3

    You should ask a Property Care Association to inspect the property for damp and report to you before exchange of contracts so that all costs of treatment are known before purchase. Any further inspection should include a check on the whole property. We refer you to the page in this report entitled 'What to do now'.

    Other things that came up that are either not so bad or not urgent are things like rewiring electrics, replacing windows...

    Couple of years ago I'd have been well up for taking a lot of the stuff on to a certain extent.

    I had my previous landlord who owns a lot of properties and does a lot of building maintenance work and also a builder I know go over the report and both have said it's not as bad as it sounds, and from what the builder was saying, he reckons 15-20k worth of work...

    I guess asking the seller to get the main things like the roof bits and extension sorted is a viable option that we'd possibly be interested in. Ugh, big fat dilemma!
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 14th Jan 18, 4:15 PM
    • 4,410 Posts
    • 6,333 Thanks
    Cakeguts
    • #6
    • 14th Jan 18, 4:15 PM
    • #6
    • 14th Jan 18, 4:15 PM
    From reading the report it sounds like a house that has had a lot of bits of extensions or various cheap construction added?

    Did it appear to be cheap for the size? If so that would be because it has a lot of repair needed.

    It could turn out to be a money pit in that when you repair one bit something else comes up.

    Did you intend to buy a house with a lot of extensions or did you want to buy a purpose built one?
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 14th Jan 18, 5:36 PM
    • 15,829 Posts
    • 43,837 Thanks
    moneyistooshorttomention
    • #7
    • 14th Jan 18, 5:36 PM
    • #7
    • 14th Jan 18, 5:36 PM
    The one thing I can see here is that, if you decide to drop this house and look for something else instead, employ the same surveyor again.

    Reason - they seem to be a decent one. You got lucky to be told about the need for re-wiring then - that's more than my blimmin' **** surveyor I had do a mid-level survey on current house - that didnt darn well mention need for rewiring at all and it's causing problems now because of that
    How to make the worst decisions you'll ever make. Think "What would the ancestors do?" and (be you a person or a part of a country) you'll make a mistake every time.
    • drewbydoo
    • By drewbydoo 14th Jan 18, 7:01 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    drewbydoo
    • #8
    • 14th Jan 18, 7:01 PM
    • #8
    • 14th Jan 18, 7:01 PM
    @cakeguts It seems about right for the size and area, although most are 3 bedrooms at that price around there. It's got a main extension (which is the living room) and the side of the house was extended in 1980ish, I guess it used to be the end of the terrace but now there's another house joined on to it.

    @moneyistooshorttomention yeah, he's been pretty thorough, and very blunt! He has pretty much said don't touch it with a bargepole unless you're experienced at buying houses as projects!

    Ugh.

    I think we'll probably end up saying to the seller that they will need to drop the price 15-20k and get the main structural bits done or it's a no deal.

    I think they're going to struggle to sell otherwise. Also, their situation is a bit difficult because it's all being handled by the cousin of the owner who unfortunately died recently (so there's the whole probate issue too) and she lives up north, where the gran who is currently living in the house with the son is moving to.
    • Slithery
    • By Slithery 14th Jan 18, 7:12 PM
    • 721 Posts
    • 1,129 Thanks
    Slithery
    • #9
    • 14th Jan 18, 7:12 PM
    • #9
    • 14th Jan 18, 7:12 PM
    I think we'll probably end up saying to the seller that they will need to drop the price 15-20k and get the main structural bits done or it's a no deal.
    Originally posted by drewbydoo

    Never
    get a vendor to fix things before a sale, they'll do at as cheaply as possible and you'll have no contract with whoever did the work. Get the price knocked down to cover the costs and get the work done yourself.
    Last edited by Slithery; 14-01-2018 at 7:32 PM.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 14th Jan 18, 8:22 PM
    • 44,392 Posts
    • 52,681 Thanks
    G_M
    This seems like a useful report so I agree, use this surveyor again if you don't buy this property.

    However I think you are over-reacting. This is not such a negative report just a thorough one!
    The more I read the report, the more I'm put off if I'm honest. We really want to be able to move in and crack on with starting a family so with all the work that needs doing I think this may actually be end game for this house,
    I agree it's hard work starting a family, but not time-consuming - only takes about 3 minutes to get started!


    The main roof is pitched and covered with plain concrete tiles. The roof is lined internally with timber boarding although this is not as effective as a modern sarking felt. The rear and side extension flat roofs are covered with traditional mineral felt. The roof to the side extension was not visible from ground level so was not inspected.
    So just a descriptiion.

    However, it is likely of similar age to the other roofs and can arguably be expected to be in a similar state of repair.

    FLAT ROOFS
    The rear extension flat roof coverings are torn, blistered and in poor condition. We expect the covering will be
    beyond repair and in need of full replacement.
    This is a risk to the building, and we refer you to our comments in section J.
    Condition Rating 3
    You'll need to budget to replace the flat roof. Not a big, difficult or time-consuming job job. Depending on size and accessibility, and the material you choose for replacement: 2000 - 20,000.

    Get a roofer or 3 to give you quotes.

    PITCHED ROOF
    The pitched roof covering appears in acceptable condition but coverings are weathered and a little uneven in
    places. The coverings should be regularly inspected and maintained in good condition as any minor disrepair could
    lead to significant leakage and decay.
    So all fine

    The absence of a proper lining under the roof covering is not unusual in a property of this age. As the roof is in satisfactory condition, we do not consider the risk of rain penetration significant enough to warrant the costly and disruptive work of removing the existing coverings to install such a barrier. Nevertheless, until this is undertaken, the roof coverings should be kept in good condition at all times. The roof space should also be checked periodically for any decay or disrepair.
    Condition Rating 1
    So all fine

    You should ask a roofing contractor to inspect the roofs, with the benefit of appropriate access equipment and to provide a quotation for the remedial work needed before exchange of contracts as the repairs/replacements are urgent and may be costly. You should follow the advice given in the page in this report entitled 'What to do now'.
    As I said above.
    And as pointed out by others, do NOT get the vendor to replace the flat roof - he'll do the cheapest cowboy job he can get away with. Why would he care?
    Negotiate the purchase price.

    Because of height/orientation, access will be difficult and specialist equipment will be needed which may increase costs.
    It's unclear what this relates to.
    If the flat roof, and scfafolding is needed, that will increase the cost, but generally flat roofs are mucheasier to work on.

    If it relates to the main roof, why worry? It's in good condition so access not needed.

    The original building and side extension walls are of cavity construction with a rendered masonry outer leaf. The inner leaf is believed to be brick or concrete block. The walls contain a poured bitumen damp proof course. The front bay walls are partly clad with vertical tiles. The rear extension walls are of timber framed construction which consists of a structural timber framework which is most likely insulated internally, plastered to its inside face and
    then clad externally with plastic boarding.
    So just a descriptiion.

    UPVC CLAD WALLS
    The timber frame rear extension appears to have been constructed using a single skin timber frame which is dry lined and plastered internally, insulated and clad externally with a uPVC ship lap cladding system. This type of construction is at high risk of damp and timber decay problems as it lacks satisfactory protection to its outer layer.
    It may be 'at high risk', but IS THERE actually any damp? He does not mention any, so I assumee not. So why worry?

    As a result, a majority of high street lenders place lending restrictions of this type of property or refuse to lend on them entirely. If you were to purchase this property you would most likely need to consider providing a masonry or warranty approved external cladding system with these changes potentially being expensive and disruptive.
    Nothing you can do about this so ignore for now.
    If your lender refuses to lend, or imposes expensive conditions, then think again.
    If they agree to lend, then there's no problem.

    High damp meter readings were recorded in the utility area, which we believe is a result of the high level of the external
    timber decking and poor surface drainage in the area. This could lead to decay of the structural frame of the extension and the need for comprehensive repair or replacement. This is a risk to the building, and we refer you to our comments in section J.
    Condition Rating 3
    So this damp is caused by the decking. Very quick, easy and chheap to remedy by altering the deckig. Nothing to worry about here.

    RENDERED WALLS
    The rendered masonry walls are in satisfactory structural condition. The external surfaces are weathered but are in acceptable condition with no serious defects apparent.
    So no issues.
    High damp meter readings were recorded in the front entrance lobby, to either side of the front door, which we believe is a result of the high level of the front entrance steps in relation to the damp proof course.
    Very cheap, and easy, to lower the level of the front steps, or adapt them slightly to prevent damp penetration.


    This could lead to damp and timber decay. This is a risk to the building, and we refer you to our comments in section J.
    Condition Rating 3
    Fix it easily after you move in.

    You should ask a Property Care Association to inspect the property for damp and report to you before exchange of contracts so that all costs of treatment are known before purchase. Any further inspection should include a check on the whole property. We refer you to the page in this report entitled 'What to do now'.
    This is covering his backside. He seems to have done a good job identifying not just where there is damp, but the causes of the damp, which appear to be superficial.

    Other things that came up that are either not so bad or not urgent are things like rewiring electrics, replacing windows...
    If the prperty genuinely needs rewiring (a surveyor won't know - you'd need an electrician to inspect) then
    a) get it done asap as it can be intrusive oce you're settled in and have redecorated
    b) could add 2-3K in costs

    But it seems unclear if it's needed.

    ....
    I had my previous landlord who owns a lot of properties and does a lot of building maintenance work and also a builder I know go over the report and both have said it's not as bad as it sounds, and from what the builder was saying, he reckons 15-20k worth of work...
    Originally posted by drewbydoo
    I agree with them both, though, although I'm no expert, I disagree with the estimate. I think less.

    The only major job there is the flat roof.

    Google 'roof felts' or 'flat rof coverings' to larn about modern alternatives to felt, and to get an idea of prices. Then estimate the size of the roof, and factor in labour costs.
    • moneyistooshorttomention
    • By moneyistooshorttomention 14th Jan 18, 10:13 PM
    • 15,829 Posts
    • 43,837 Thanks
    moneyistooshorttomention
    at G_M's comment about "only taking 3 minutes to start a family"
    How to make the worst decisions you'll ever make. Think "What would the ancestors do?" and (be you a person or a part of a country) you'll make a mistake every time.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 14th Jan 18, 10:36 PM
    • 44,392 Posts
    • 52,681 Thanks
    G_M
    at G_M's comment about "only taking 3 minutes to start a family"
    Originally posted by moneyistooshorttomention
    OK OK - I confess. I have a tendency to exaggerate about these things.......
    • drewbydoo
    • By drewbydoo 15th Jan 18, 1:17 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    drewbydoo
    Thanks @G_M isn't it about 4 minutes if you include taking socks off?!

    Lots of other people are also saying it's not too bad, so think we're gonna get some quotes done and take it from there...

    Will update as soon as we know more! Cheers everyone!
    • G_M
    • By G_M 15th Jan 18, 1:30 PM
    • 44,392 Posts
    • 52,681 Thanks
    G_M
    It's winter. Who takes their socks off!? Or gloves come to that.....
    • drewbydoo
    • By drewbydoo 15th Jan 18, 2:45 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    drewbydoo
    @G_M very true!

    So, after spending today arranging builder, plumber and electrician to do quotes, found out the lender won't lend on it so that makes things a bit easier haha!

    Estate Agent is a bit miffed and is currently speaking to our advisor to find out the whys and why not put a retention thingy on it instead (I don't even really know what that means).

    He also asked me to send him the report, which I understand is a no-no - right?
    • G_M
    • By G_M 15th Jan 18, 2:54 PM
    • 44,392 Posts
    • 52,681 Thanks
    G_M
    He also asked me to send him the report, which I understand is a no-no - right?
    Originally posted by drewbydoo
    If you are pulling out of the purchase (or rather, being pulled out by your lender) I don't see wat harm there is in letting the agent/seller see the report.

    It's no longer of any value to you.

    Depends how helpful you feel like being.

    It's when a purchase is ongoing that yiu have to be careful about showing your hand, as it might influence price negoiations etc.
    • pinklady21
    • By pinklady21 15th Jan 18, 2:57 PM
    • 601 Posts
    • 421 Thanks
    pinklady21
    A Mortgage Retention is where your lender agrees to lend on the property, but keeps back, ie retains, some of the money (the value of the repairs) until you have confirmed to the lender that you have carried out the repairs. So in that scenario, you would have to find an alternative means of finding the cash to buy the property, and then fund the repairs, before the mortgage company would give you the full amount of cash they agreed to lend you in the first place.
    One of the reasons why sometimes these sorts of properties only go to cash buyers.
    • drewbydoo
    • By drewbydoo 15th Jan 18, 2:58 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    drewbydoo
    Ok cool, thanks - I'll wait until we've 100% pulled out before I send it, just in case there's any kind of swing around in the lending (although I doubt it!)
    • drewbydoo
    • By drewbydoo 15th Jan 18, 2:59 PM
    • 15 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    drewbydoo
    @pinklady21 Oh I see, thanks for explaining! Blimey, this is all so much fun haha!
    • G_M
    • By G_M 15th Jan 18, 3:03 PM
    • 44,392 Posts
    • 52,681 Thanks
    G_M
    .... Blimey, this is all so much fun haha!
    Originally posted by drewbydoo
    yeah but 3 minutes is over in a flash...... (well, a bang. Or a pop.)
    Last edited by G_M; 15-01-2018 at 10:18 PM.
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