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  • FIRST POST
    • purplegrapes
    • By purplegrapes 12th Jan 18, 2:57 PM
    • 3Posts
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    purplegrapes
    Money Left In Will
    • #1
    • 12th Jan 18, 2:57 PM
    Money Left In Will 12th Jan 18 at 2:57 PM
    I've been to see a friend's solicitor today who passed away in December. I was rather shocked to find this person has left me 15,000 in their will, along with the wise words use it well.

    I know exactly what part of the money will fund and that is private surgery that the NHS has refused to do for the past six years.

    This will cost me approx. 10,000 dependent on which hospital or surgeon I use.

    I am claiming ESA and in the support group, so guess I need to declare this money, the same with housing benefits and council tax support.

    Will spending a lump sum on private surgery be seen as deprivation of capital though? The surgery can change my life and should in time mean I can cease claiming sickness benefit and return to work!
Page 1
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 12th Jan 18, 3:14 PM
    • 5,024 Posts
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    TELLIT01
    • #2
    • 12th Jan 18, 3:14 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Jan 18, 3:14 PM
    Interesting and unusual question. I'm not asking what the surgery is for, but it's almost certain that the DWP will ask that question and will make a decision regarding deprivation based on the information provided.
    If it can be shown that the surgery may have the effect you say, then it's difficult to see how it should be treated as deprivation. I would suspect that medical reports etc would be required to back up your claims.
    • pmlindyloo
    • By pmlindyloo 12th Jan 18, 3:17 PM
    • 11,581 Posts
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    pmlindyloo
    • #3
    • 12th Jan 18, 3:17 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Jan 18, 3:17 PM
    I've been to see a friend's solicitor today who passed away in December. I was rather shocked to find this person has left me 15,000 in their will, along with the wise words use it well.

    I know exactly what part of the money will fund and that is private surgery that the NHS has refused to do for the past six years.

    This will cost me approx. 10,000 dependent on which hospital or surgeon I use.

    I am claiming ESA and in the support group, so guess I need to declare this money, the same with housing benefits and council tax support.

    Will spending a lump sum on private surgery be seen as deprivation of capital though? The surgery can change my life and should in time mean I can cease claiming sickness benefit and return to work!
    Originally posted by purplegrapes
    Deprivation of capital is not an issue if you get written permission from a decision maker to use the money as you suggest.

    It would help your case if you had a letter from your GP explaining why they are unwilling to do the surgery. Also a quote from a private source as to the cost of the surgery.

    Basically you would need your request to be reasonable and have the evidence to explain why it is reasonable in your circumstances.
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 12th Jan 18, 3:24 PM
    • 5,921 Posts
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    marliepanda
    • #4
    • 12th Jan 18, 3:24 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Jan 18, 3:24 PM
    I've been to see a friend's solicitor today who passed away in December. I was rather shocked to find this person has left me 15,000 in their will, along with the wise words use it well.

    I know exactly what part of the money will fund and that is private surgery that the NHS has refused to do for the past six years.

    This will cost me approx. 10,000 dependent on which hospital or surgeon I use.

    I am claiming ESA and in the support group, so guess I need to declare this money, the same with housing benefits and council tax support.

    Will spending a lump sum on private surgery be seen as deprivation of capital though? The surgery can change my life and should in time mean I can cease claiming sickness benefit and return to work!
    Originally posted by purplegrapes
    It will probably depend on whether the surgery is medical or cosmetic. It is not a given that it will be accepted, especially if the NHS has been so far unwilling to do so.
    • purplegrapes
    • By purplegrapes 12th Jan 18, 3:24 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    purplegrapes
    • #5
    • 12th Jan 18, 3:24 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Jan 18, 3:24 PM
    It will be used to fund weight loss surgery, a gastric sleeve. The NHS will not fund it as I don't meet their criteria, my HbA1c is too high (diabetes bloods) and I won't return to use insulin to lower it as it makes me gain more weight, massive amounts of insulin will do this. There would be no problem with GP and Diabetic Consultant supporting me having it privately as diabetes will almost reverse overnight once surgery is done, the NHS know this but use the high HbA1c as a marker for turning down surgery as it makes me a risk.
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 12th Jan 18, 3:26 PM
    • 5,921 Posts
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    marliepanda
    • #6
    • 12th Jan 18, 3:26 PM
    • #6
    • 12th Jan 18, 3:26 PM
    It will be used to fund weight loss surgery, a gastric sleeve. The NHS will not fund it as I don't meet their criteria, my HbA1c is too high (diabetes bloods) and I won't return to use insulin to lower it as it makes me gain more weight, massive amounts of insulin will do this. There would be no problem with GP and Diabetic Consultant supporting me having it privately as diabetes will almost reverse overnight once surgery is done, the NHS know this but use the high HbA1c as a marker for turning down surgery as it makes me a risk.
    Originally posted by purplegrapes
    I feel this may be a fuzzy one as its almost 'choice' that you are not having this done for free due to your refusal to meet certain medical requirements...

    No one here can guarantee a yes or a no though. You need to speak to DWP.

    However, if you are so certain it will change your life, do it anyway. Even with benefit reduction you still have 5k, a small amount of benefits, and your health and ability to work will return and you'll be better in the future.
    • purplegrapes
    • By purplegrapes 12th Jan 18, 3:47 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    purplegrapes
    • #7
    • 12th Jan 18, 3:47 PM
    • #7
    • 12th Jan 18, 3:47 PM
    I feel this may be a fuzzy one as its almost 'choice' that you are not having this done for free due to your refusal to meet certain medical requirements...

    No one here can guarantee a yes or a no though. You need to speak to DWP.

    However, if you are so certain it will change your life, do it anyway. Even with benefit reduction you still have 5k, a small amount of benefits, and your health and ability to work will return and you'll be better in the future.
    Originally posted by marliepanda
    I would not say it was choice to choose not to control my diabetes. I have successfully lost six stone through diet and exercise over 4 years, but for three years my weight has remained the same and my diabetes got worse. On insulin, I gained back 3 stone in three months so opted not to continue because it had a real knock on effect on my mental health, so much things were so bad I overdosed on insulin to end things. Now I am considered a high risk if I go back on insulin either way.

    I've done everything asked of me, attended appointments, seen psychiatrist, psychologists, dieticians, all agree WLS is the way forward, but NHS cutbacks and restrictions mean I simply do not meet the criteria for it with them, yet the NHS will happily be glad I save them 7000 a year in varying medications if I pay for the surgery privately.

    I am going to push ahead and book a consultation. I think my mental and physical health need to come first over what the DWP think.
    • Topcat1982
    • By Topcat1982 12th Jan 18, 3:59 PM
    • 372 Posts
    • 400 Thanks
    Topcat1982
    • #8
    • 12th Jan 18, 3:59 PM
    • #8
    • 12th Jan 18, 3:59 PM
    I am going to push ahead and book a consultation. I think my mental and physical health need to come first over what the DWP think
    I really think you should write to them and ask first. Be careful, you could be left with no benefits.
    • Ames
    • By Ames 12th Jan 18, 4:49 PM
    • 17,304 Posts
    • 30,485 Thanks
    Ames
    • #9
    • 12th Jan 18, 4:49 PM
    • #9
    • 12th Jan 18, 4:49 PM
    Do you have any other savings?

    Even if they do decide it's deprivation, if you have no other savings then they'll say you have 15k, so your current benefits will be reduced by 45 per week. If you still get some income based ESA then you'll still get full housing benefit/council tax support.

    If you already have savings and the inheritance takes you above 16k then means tested benefits will stop.

    All this is assuming that you're ESA is income based. If it's just contribution based then it won't be affected by savings. If you get contributions based with an income based top up then you'll still be entitled to the contributions based part.

    Also be aware of universal credit. If you're in a full service area then if you have to come off income based ESA you'll have to go on UC when your savings reduce, and the rates of UC don't include disability premiums so will be less than you're getting now.

    I agree with other posters, you need to write to the DWP and ask for permission to spend the money on surgery. Remember that if permission is given then the DWP have to abide by that - they can't suddenly decide it was deprivation, so keep the letter very safe!
    Unless I say otherwise 'you' means the general you not you specifically.
    • venison
    • By venison 12th Jan 18, 4:50 PM
    • 2,176 Posts
    • 2,325 Thanks
    venison
    It will be used to fund weight loss surgery, a gastric sleeve. The NHS will not fund it as I don't meet their criteria, my HbA1c is too high (diabetes bloods) and I won't return to use insulin to lower it as it makes me gain more weight, massive amounts of insulin will do this. There would be no problem with GP and Diabetic Consultant supporting me having it privately as diabetes will almost reverse overnight once surgery is done, the NHS know this but use the high HbA1c as a marker for turning down surgery as it makes me a risk.
    Originally posted by purplegrapes
    I'm confused (it is friday), if the NHS see it as such a risk why is it not a risk if done privately?
    If I were you I would seek clarification in writing from the DWP regarding deprivation of capital.
    Ex Board Guide
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 12th Jan 18, 4:55 PM
    • 2,160 Posts
    • 2,530 Thanks
    Alice Holt
    As others have said this will come down to the judgement of the DWP Decision Maker.

    However, in determining if it is deprivation of capital (D of C), the principle that should apply is whether the intention (primary or secondary) is to deprive yourself of capital in order to become eligible for an award, or a higher award, of benefits.

    I would doubt that your intention in having surgery is to maximise benefits.
    If the DWP do decide it is D of C, then you always have the option to appeal to the Tribunal Service and have the DWP decision reviewed by a tribunal.
    • gardner1
    • By gardner1 12th Jan 18, 4:59 PM
    • 2,487 Posts
    • 3,759 Thanks
    gardner1
    I've been to see a friend's solicitor today who passed away in December. I was rather shocked to find this person has left me 15,000 in their will, along with the wise words use it well.

    I know exactly what part of the money will fund and that is private surgery that the NHS has refused to do for the past six years.

    This will cost me approx. 10,000 dependent on which hospital or surgeon I use.

    I am claiming ESA and in the support group, so guess I need to declare this money, the same with housing benefits and council tax support.

    Will spending a lump sum on private surgery be seen as deprivation of capital though? The surgery can change my life and should in time mean I can cease claiming sickness benefit and return to work!
    Originally posted by purplegrapes
    Dont tell them
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 12th Jan 18, 5:29 PM
    • 2,160 Posts
    • 2,530 Thanks
    Alice Holt
    Dont tell them
    Originally posted by gardner1
    Is there an online equivalent of a charge of being an accessory to fraud / aiding and abetting?

    "A person charged with aiding and abetting or accessory is usually not present when the crime itself is committed, but he or she has knowledge of the crime before or after the fact, and may assist in its commission through advice, actions......".
    • konark
    • By konark 14th Jan 18, 2:14 AM
    • 1,010 Posts
    • 776 Thanks
    konark
    Have you already got the money?

    If not book the surgery and pay on credit card/overdraft or even friend (have it notarised) . When you get the money pay off your credit card/ bank/friend, which as an immediately payable debt isn't D of C.
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 14th Jan 18, 2:23 AM
    • 5,921 Posts
    • 12,579 Thanks
    marliepanda
    Have you already got the money?

    If not book the surgery and pay on credit card/overdraft or even friend (have it notarised) . When you get the money pay off your credit card/ bank/friend, which as an immediately payable debt isn't D of C.
    Originally posted by konark
    This doesn't even make sense.

    1. A credit card isn't immediately payable, assuming they can get a 10k limit card... no.

    2. You really think the DWP wouldn't see through your ridiculous 'friend' rouse? You also think the OP can get a 10k overdraft or CC?

    3. Also its fairly clear if you had read the OP that the OP has the money or the money is assigned to the OP.

    If you're going to tell people how to commit fraud at least get your facts correct and read the information presented to you, or just, don't.
    • Robin9
    • By Robin9 14th Jan 18, 6:49 AM
    • 2,669 Posts
    • 1,745 Thanks
    Robin9
    You haven't got this money yet ! It may be many months before the estate can pay it out to you - 12 months is not unusual and can be longer if their is a property involved.

    The sum is not guaranteed.
    Never pay on an estimated bill
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 14th Jan 18, 9:05 AM
    • 16,729 Posts
    • 41,345 Thanks
    FBaby
    The NHS will not fund it as I don't meet their criteria, my HbA1c is too high (diabetes bloods) and I won't return to use insulin to lower it as it makes me gain more weight, massive amounts of insulin will do this
    As already questioned, if this is really the reason why it was refused, then going privately will make no difference. It's a clinical decision, probably because it puts you at further risk. It might be that before you can access it, you would need to go through a 6 months + program to try to lose weight yourself and you don't want to do that.

    In the end though, whether you save the NHS the money or the dpw, it doesn't make much difference.
    • Ames
    • By Ames 14th Jan 18, 3:19 PM
    • 17,304 Posts
    • 30,485 Thanks
    Ames
    This doesn't even make sense.

    1. A credit card isn't immediately payable, assuming they can get a 10k limit card... no.

    2. You really think the DWP wouldn't see through your ridiculous 'friend' rouse? You also think the OP can get a 10k overdraft or CC?

    3. Also its fairly clear if you had read the OP that the OP has the money or the money is assigned to the OP.

    If you're going to tell people how to commit fraud at least get your facts correct and read the information presented to you, or just, don't.
    Originally posted by marliepanda
    1. A credit card is immediately payable, at least as far as DWP rules go. Paying off a credit card or overdraft isn't usually deprivation as the lender can demand the money at any time. It's not like a loan where there is a regular payment schedule.

    2. I'm not sure what ruse you mean - the poster was suggesting getting a loan from a friend with a proper agreement drawn up. Presumably as they'd be unlikely to qualify for a bank loan.

    3. The OP doesn't have the money yet. It's been left in a will. Who knows how long it'll be before they get it.

    Getting into debt before getting the inheritance wouldn't be fraud. It might be deprivation, subject to everything else discussed in this thread.

    The previous advice - to get permission from a DM before the inheritance arrives - stands.
    Unless I say otherwise 'you' means the general you not you specifically.
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 14th Jan 18, 5:33 PM
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    marliepanda
    Deliberately getting into debt simply to avoid the necessity of declaring it to the DWP is absolutely fraud. They know they!!!8217;re getting money, hopefully enough for what they want. They don!!!8217;t need to lend or put it on credit.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 14th Jan 18, 5:49 PM
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    TELLIT01
    As already questioned, if this is really the reason why it was refused, then going privately will make no difference. It's a clinical decision, probably because it puts you at further risk. It might be that before you can access it, you would need to go through a 6 months + program to try to lose weight yourself and you don't want to do that.

    In the end though, whether you save the NHS the money or the dpw, it doesn't make much difference.
    Originally posted by FBaby
    Not necessarily true. Some surgery on the NHS is limited by age, BMI or other factors. Tell your GP that you are able to pay for the treatment privately and often those restrictions magically disappear.
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