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  • FIRST POST
    • MissConStru
    • By MissConStru 12th Jan 18, 12:59 PM
    • 49Posts
    • 9Thanks
    MissConStru
    Amazon refund problems - I need help!
    • #1
    • 12th Jan 18, 12:59 PM
    Amazon refund problems - I need help! 12th Jan 18 at 12:59 PM
    This is a long, long story but it's driving me potty!

    May 2017, I ordered an electric bidet toilet seat off Amazon. Cost was around 480. It took a while to arrive but when it did, my plumber and I found the instructions were all in Chinese or something similar! So I contacted the seller and asked it I could return it. His reply was very helpful and said he would be willing to give me a full refund and would send me a prepaid returns label.

    That took a few weeks to arrive but eventually I contacted the courier as directed (Parcel Force) who duly collected it on 5th July. The driver offered on of those digital things for me to sign and that was that!

    But no it wasn't!

    August 4th a van arrived and I see my parcel being unloaded from the back. Naturally I rejected it.

    Then September 15th, back it comes again! Rejected

    Sadly I failed to note the name of the courier involved but it definitely wasn't Parcel Force!

    After a goodish wait, I contacted
    the seller via Amazon messages to ask if he'd received the item - no answer!
    I emailed him twice more with the same result.

    By now it's November 20th ad they said they would look into it. Then I got an email telling me "cannot accept your reply as sufficient proof of delivery for this transaction. We will need proof of delivery that shows the address and the signature of the delivery. This can be sent as an attachment"

    In vain I have tried to tell them (by phone) that I don't have a signed document because I signed a digital pad. Next day I get exactly the same email again!

    I've done everything I can think of.

    I phoned Parcel Force who not only provided me with the tracking number and date of delivery to the place cited on the returns label and even sent me a screen shot of the computer. I sent all this to Amazon - result, another of those wretched emails!

    If I ring them (and I have about 2 dozen times!) I only get to speak to a customer service person who puts me on hold then tells me s/he has passed my case on to 'another' department and the next day, I get yet another of those wretched emails!

    So I'm pretty much at the end of my tether now. I am a pensioner. I cannot afford to write off 480 but where do I go from here? Has any body any suggestions? Please?

    Last edited by MissConStru; 12-01-2018 at 1:02 PM.
Page 1
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 12th Jan 18, 1:49 PM
    • 12,221 Posts
    • 8,255 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    • #2
    • 12th Jan 18, 1:49 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Jan 18, 1:49 PM
    Let me say just one thing before I respond. The fact you are a pensioner is neither here nor there.

    How did you pay for the item? Do you still have the evidence showing collection and subsequent delivery back to the seller? Have you at any stage opened a case on Amazon?
    • MissConStru
    • By MissConStru 12th Jan 18, 1:59 PM
    • 49 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    MissConStru
    • #3
    • 12th Jan 18, 1:59 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Jan 18, 1:59 PM
    The fact you are a pensioner is neither here nor there.
    Originally posted by theonlywayisup
    I appreciate what you are saying but it is to me!

    How did you pay for the item?
    Originally posted by theonlywayisup
    Bank payment

    Do you still have the evidence showing collection and subsequent delivery back to the seller?
    Originally posted by theonlywayisup
    No and that's where the problem lays

    Have you at any stage opened a case on Amazon?
    Originally posted by theonlywayisup
    Yes I did - in November 2017
    Last edited by MissConStru; 12-01-2018 at 2:10 PM.
    • MissConStru
    • By MissConStru 12th Jan 18, 2:12 PM
    • 49 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    MissConStru
    • #4
    • 12th Jan 18, 2:12 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Jan 18, 2:12 PM
    Bank payment
    Originally posted by MissConStru
    I also just went and got the 'evidence' from my bank statement (thank you for that prompt!)
    • F&L
    • By F&L 12th Jan 18, 2:14 PM
    • 532 Posts
    • 590 Thanks
    F&L
    • #5
    • 12th Jan 18, 2:14 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Jan 18, 2:14 PM
    Is the case you opened a support case rather an A-Z claim? Only Amazon would have been able to open the latter and they normally deal with them very quickly. One of the reasons for an A-Z claim is that the buyer has returned an item but not been refunded. When you say you're in contact with Amazon, do you mean their staff or the Marketplace seller's staff?
    • MissConStru
    • By MissConStru 12th Jan 18, 2:21 PM
    • 49 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    MissConStru
    • #6
    • 12th Jan 18, 2:21 PM
    • #6
    • 12th Jan 18, 2:21 PM
    Is the case you opened a support case rather an A-Z claim?
    Originally posted by F&L
    It is an A-Z claim
    When you say you're in contact with Amazon, do you mean their staff or the Marketplace seller's staff?
    Originally posted by F&L
    Amazon staff. I use either the message centre or phone using the 'call me back' tool.
    • MissConStru
    • By MissConStru 12th Jan 18, 2:25 PM
    • 49 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    MissConStru
    • #7
    • 12th Jan 18, 2:25 PM
    • #7
    • 12th Jan 18, 2:25 PM
    August 4th a van arrived and I see my parcel being unloaded from the back. Naturally I rejected it.

    Then September 15th, back it comes again! Rejected
    Originally posted by MissConStru
    Due to these erroneous attempts at incorrect delivery, the item now appears to be lost - at least no-one will take responsibility for its whereabouts.
    • Dox
    • By Dox 12th Jan 18, 3:57 PM
    • 670 Posts
    • 459 Thanks
    Dox
    • #8
    • 12th Jan 18, 3:57 PM
    • #8
    • 12th Jan 18, 3:57 PM
    I'm getting a bit lost here. If you have the necessary evidence from Parcel Force that you returned the item and it was duly delivered, what else do you need? The fact you signed a digital pad is now irrelevant, surely, in the light of the info PF has helpfully supplied?

    As to evidence of the payment - if you bought via Amazon you presumably paid via Amazon, so they should have a record of the payment. You say you paid by 'bank payment' but bank transfer isn't a method Amazon accepts, whether for items it supplies or for marketplace sellers. Could it be you paid by debit card?
    • MissConStru
    • By MissConStru 12th Jan 18, 4:12 PM
    • 49 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    MissConStru
    • #9
    • 12th Jan 18, 4:12 PM
    • #9
    • 12th Jan 18, 4:12 PM
    I'm getting a bit lost here.
    Originally posted by Dox
    You and me both!
    If you have the necessary evidence from Parcel Force that you returned the item and it was duly delivered, what else do you need? The fact you signed a digital pad is now irrelevant, surely, in the light of the info PF has helpfully supplied?
    Originally posted by Dox
    It seems that Parcel Force delivered it to XPO Logisitics in Daventry and not the seller. I have no idea why nor can I make any sense of it! And it was XPO who erroneously brought it back to me - twice!
    As to evidence of the payment - if you bought via Amazon you presumably paid via Amazon, so they should have a record of the payment. Could it be you paid by debit card?
    Originally posted by Dox
    Oh yes, I did pay via Amazon by my debit card.

    Sorry it's all so confusing but you've only seen a synopsis of the entire story!
    • bxboards
    • By bxboards 12th Jan 18, 4:25 PM
    • 1,440 Posts
    • 1,131 Thanks
    bxboards
    I think one of the issues is that Parcelforce are one of the few couriers who will collect without a label being required to be supplied or printed, as they bring their own for collections.

    So the buyer may not ever had sight of the parcel label, and therefore cannot supply a copy or the tracking number.

    This doesn't help the buyer unfortunately, and it seems that in this case it's up to the seller to cooperate as they were the people who supplied the label, and are responsible for the items safe return. The buyer is not going to have this to supply to Amazon.
    • MissConStru
    • By MissConStru 12th Jan 18, 6:47 PM
    • 49 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    MissConStru
    Yes, I think you may be right. But it doesn't help when the seller refuses to communicate!

    Any ideas where I can go from here?

    It's almost seeming like it's a lost cause.
    480+ is a lot to loose
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 12th Jan 18, 7:01 PM
    • 12,221 Posts
    • 8,255 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    I am getting confused, not least because you seem to be quoting yourself.

    You say that PF gave you the tracking info. If you still have that, have you added it to your A-Z claim? Was there a signature for the delivery (to the seller)?

    How did you pay by BT on Amazon? Do you mean debit card?

    Edit, I now see (in the mix of fonts) that you paid by card.

    Have you thought about contacting your card company? I will find the MSE link for you in a moment and add it here...

    https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/visa-mastercard-chargeback

    Not tailored for your circumstances but might be helpful nonetheless.
    Last edited by theonlywayisup; 12-01-2018 at 7:17 PM.
    • MissConStru
    • By MissConStru 12th Jan 18, 7:05 PM
    • 49 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    MissConStru
    Sorry, yes I am quoting bits of my previous posts for emphasis but I've only done that twice and both were clearly marked as mine.

    PF gave me a screen shot of the information they had on their system and I sent that to A-Z claims but they came back with the same old email


    Thank you for your response to our enquiry regarding order 204-0276522-6437910.

    Unfortunately the shipping information you provided does not include signature confirmation of delivery. As a result, this is insufficient evidence of delivery to the intended recipient.

    Please understand a traceable return with signature confirmation is the only way for us to absolutely verify that your merchandise has been received by the seller.

    Amazon.co.uk strives to maintain a marketplace that is fair to both buyers and sellers. Due to the fact that your return cannot be traced to the seller, your claim has been denied.

    Please note that we ask that you use a trackable return method with a signature required as well as insuring the item to ensure its safe delivery.



    So it seems like I've struck out again!
    What I would like to know is why somebody in claims won't do me the courtesy of actually talking to me!
    Last edited by MissConStru; 12-01-2018 at 7:10 PM.
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 12th Jan 18, 7:14 PM
    • 12,221 Posts
    • 8,255 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    You will only win an A-Z with a signature on receipt.

    You should appeal to your card company with the proof of postage (and tracking number if you have it - not the reference you've given above).

    But don't waffle. Be factual and upload any evidence you have.

    Failing that (and I do apologise but I cannot read your posts easily) but where is the seller located?
    • MissConStru
    • By MissConStru 12th Jan 18, 7:19 PM
    • 49 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    MissConStru
    You should appeal to your card company with the proof of postage (and tracking number if you have it - not the reference you've given above).
    Originally posted by theonlywayisup
    Which I don't have!

    Failing that (and I do apologise but I cannot read your posts easily) but where is the seller located?
    Originally posted by theonlywayisup
    Don't laugh - China!

    Thanks for trying to help, anyway. You're a mench!
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 12th Jan 18, 7:24 PM
    • 12,221 Posts
    • 8,255 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    Which I don't have!

    Don't laugh - China!

    Thanks for trying to help, anyway. You're a mench!
    Originally posted by MissConStru
    Thankfully I'm not au fait with "mench"

    Ah, that changes matters. You will find it impossible to take any action against a seller in China. Your only hopes are A-Z (which needed the signature) or a card chargeback/s75.

    The way I see it (am happy for anyone else to correct me) is that your only hope now is via a chargeback on your debit card. Be prepared for a battle and ensure your evidence is clear.
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 12th Jan 18, 7:26 PM
    • 12,221 Posts
    • 8,255 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    As you have a reference number from PF, get back onto them before you tackle your card company and ask for the consigment/tracking ref (and take screenshots).
    • MissConStru
    • By MissConStru 12th Jan 18, 7:31 PM
    • 49 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    MissConStru
    Thankfully I'm not au fait with "mench"
    Originally posted by theonlywayisup
    It's an old Yiddish term meaning 'nice person'!

    The way I see it (am happy for anyone else to correct me) is that your only hope now is via a chargeback on your debit card. Be prepared for a battle and ensure your evidence is clear.
    Originally posted by theonlywayisup
    Thanks so much. I'll give it a go.
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 12th Jan 18, 7:57 PM
    • 12,221 Posts
    • 8,255 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    Good luck. Do report back.
    • F&L
    • By F&L 12th Jan 18, 8:04 PM
    • 532 Posts
    • 590 Thanks
    F&L
    If a seller is in China then they have to provide a UK address for a return. As Amazon store all messages between a buyer and seller, do you not have a copy in your messages that shows what this address was?

    As you were supplied with a returns label, how could you have been expected to know that Amazon will only accept a return which has a signature? Whilst I would have been wary in this situation, many wouldn't have been and would have done the same as you. I would try Amazon again in that you returned the item with the label provided and PF have confirmed delivery to this address. Has the seller used a logisitics company returns address without their knowledge? XPO Logisitics may know of this seller, evidence of which would help in any chargeback claim with your card company.
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