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  • FIRST POST
    • LoneStarState
    • By LoneStarState 11th Jan 18, 9:05 PM
    • 66Posts
    • 119Thanks
    LoneStarState
    Britannia Parking PCN Portswood Centre, Souhtampton
    • #1
    • 11th Jan 18, 9:05 PM
    Britannia Parking PCN Portswood Centre, Souhtampton 11th Jan 18 at 9:05 PM
    Hi All,
    I’ve read the newbie thread and would just like some pointers before lodging an appeal for overstaying by 17 minutes at the Portswood Centre car park in Southampton (managed by Britannia Parking). I’ve read a few appeals now (and some ongoing) for this car park and the PPC across this forum and pepipoo. Great effort in compiling all the helpful info.
    Notice was posted to relative who is the RK. It was at night with the car park poorly lit with woefully inadequate signage. Driver has not been disclosed (and will not be). I plan to submit a soft appeal using the BPA member template, just wanted to know if the below could be considered not complying with POFA? Also should I bother including the DVLA/keeper paragraph in the BPA template seeing as postal charge notice was served (no window). I guess I should just keep it in as it will probably be just a generic response from BP anyways and the first appeal is only going to go one way.
    The Charge notice initially states in the largest lettering that payment of 100.00 is to be made within 28 days but then contradicts itself by mentioning 29 days two consecutive times after on the front page of the charge notice. See extract below.

    “Parking Charge Amount Due 100.00
    Payment to be made within 28 Days of issue
    The parking charge is discounted to 60 if paid within 14 days of the date of issue
    After 29 days the full parking charge amount is due
    Contravention: Parked longer than the maximum time permitted
    Entry Details: -
    Exit Details: -

    Later POFA paragraph on front page:
    You are notified under paragraph 9(2)(b) of schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedom Act 2012 that the driver of the motor vehicle is required to pay this parking charge in full. As we do not know the drivers name of current address, and if you were not the driver of the vehicle at the time, you should tell us the name and current postal address of the driver and pass this notice to them.
    You are advised that if, after 29 days from the date given, the Parking charge has not been paid in full and we do not know both the name and current address of the driver, we have the right to recover any unpaid part of the Parking Charge from the registered keeper. This warning is given to you under Paragraph 9(2)(f) of schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and is subject to our complying with the applicable conditions under the schedule 4 of that Act.”

    Would this discrepancy be worth including at the second stage of appeal (I’m on the yes side)? If so I would likely be including the following points at a POPLA appeal:

    1. Inadequate signage – using info posted on newbie thread plus photo evidence
    2. Contradictory Non POFA PCN (28 or 29 days to pay, make your mind up?)
    3. No evidence of landowner authority.
    4. Mention of grace periods IF the signage was adequate to begin with in the poorly lit carpark at night time (referring to BPA COP).
    Fortunately I have a relative in Southampton who was also invoiced (and planning to appeal) and lives in close proximity to the car park and so should be able to provide ample photo evidence particularly of poor signage on entry in the dark.
    Once again, thank you for all the effort put into this forum.
    Any other pointers let me know. Look forward to Britannia’s rejection and the ensuing POPLA appeal. Will post second stage appeal drafts on this thread. Thank you for your time.
    Last edited by LoneStarState; 09-09-2018 at 10:52 AM.
Page 3
    • C500
    • By C500 10th Jan 19, 2:40 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    C500
    Hello guys,

    Can somebody pm me the details of the helpful person at CBRE as I've had little luck from them .
    They have so far fobbed me off with "we are no longer agents for that site "

    Thanks
    C500
    • LoneStarState
    • By LoneStarState 10th Jan 19, 2:54 PM
    • 66 Posts
    • 119 Thanks
    LoneStarState
    Hi again C500

    In this instance I'll PM you the address of the exact individual later today. It might be time to play a little more hardball in this case. Once I've given you the details of the individual reaffirm that as the principal of their agent at the time you got your ticket they actually do have full power to cancel the ticket, regardless of what Britannia say. It might be worth mentioning the possibility of giving negative feedback on social media of CBRE's conduct by trying to slink away from their duty to the customers of their customers.

    Out of interest do you have the exact date they have claimed they are no longer agents of the site? This is to help possible future victims of Britannia's Portswood scam.

    Cheers

    LSS
    • C500
    • By C500 10th Jan 19, 4:21 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    C500
    Hi again,
    No date of the change in management was given I'm afraid . But yes I'm looking at replying with a more stern response .
    Thanks for your time
    C500
    • el_patron
    • By el_patron 17th Jan 19, 9:21 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    el_patron
    Hi

    I emailed someone from kmp solutions who passed my email onto Britannia.

    Britannia responded today and cancelled the PCN.

    C500 I phoned KMP and asked for the email address of whoever is in charge of the Portswood Centre. I would recommend doing the same, it only took a few minutes.
    • MistyZ
    • By MistyZ 17th Jan 19, 9:35 AM
    • 461 Posts
    • 841 Thanks
    MistyZ

    I emailed someone from kmp solutions who passed my email onto Britannia.

    Britannia responded today and cancelled the PCN.

    C500 I phoned KMP and asked for the email address of whoever is in charge of the Portswood Centre. I would recommend doing the same, it only took a few minutes.
    Originally posted by el_patron
    This is just brilliant news, well done el-patron

    I know you've had one hell of a battle to get this thing cancelled and were at the Letter Before Claim stage. Your success illustrates how important it is to persevere with landowner complaints, not being overly deferential or allowing ourselves to feel over-awed by 'big business'.

    It would seem that you have also cleared up this particular issue relating to Portswood Centre Car Park, i.e. who to complain to since the change of land management. KMP Solutions may or may not have a contract with Britannia but they do have the wherewithal to cancel charges dating from CBRE's time.
    Last edited by MistyZ; 17-01-2019 at 9:39 AM.
    • LoneStarState
    • By LoneStarState 17th Jan 19, 10:16 AM
    • 66 Posts
    • 119 Thanks
    LoneStarState
    Congrats el-patron!

    Got a cancellation at the same stage as me. Hopefully others in a similar situation follow this thread to the end if in the same situation to find out how to nip these problem tickets in the bud.

    Cynic hat going on again.....maybe Britannia are cancelling at the slightest behest of KMP in order to find favour with them and retain the right to "manage" that highly profitable car park?
    • MistyZ
    • By MistyZ 17th Jan 19, 11:28 AM
    • 461 Posts
    • 841 Thanks
    MistyZ

    Cynic hat going on again.....maybe Britannia are cancelling at the slightest behest of KMP in order to find favour with them and retain the right to "manage" that highly profitable car park?
    Originally posted by LoneStarState
    Quite! And that's all to the good (for now)!
    • Mirrorcarp
    • By Mirrorcarp 9th Mar 19, 9:53 AM
    • 14 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    Mirrorcarp
    Contract change to KMP
    Been following this thread as I too overstayed by 16 minutes. Honestly had no idea , it was dark , Sunday evening and the car park was empty.

    Contacted KMP solutions. They told me they took over on 14th December 2018 and they have no contract with Britannia.

    However they refused to contact Britannia on my behalf stating that Britannia does still have authority to issue tickets as they are operating under the previous contract.

    Very confused and disappointed now. KMP own the land. Have no contract with Britannia but say they can still issue tickets .

    HELP My poplar appeal has been sent but was hoping KMP would nip this in the bud for me as they have done for other posters on here.

    I guess my next move is contact the previous landowners and try them.
    • LoneStarState
    • By LoneStarState 9th Mar 19, 10:29 PM
    • 66 Posts
    • 119 Thanks
    LoneStarState
    Hi Mirrorcarp

    What you've been told seems to muddy the situation. To be honest, I have the feeling KMP have said that to fob you off and they don't understand that Britannia no longer has a valid contract to manage the car park if the contract still mentions CBRE (who were the previous management agents) and KMP haven't renewed a contract with them.

    Strictly speaking, KMP don't own the land - they're management agents for the landowner whoever that may be (according to a poster further up this thread it changed hands and is likely an investment fund or a property investor - this could be confirmed by the land registry).

    It's a shame that your POPLA appeal has already been submitted as I feel this ticket could have been killed at POPLA with some tactical emailing. I assume the bit about Britannia not having a contract with KMP was confirmed via email and thus you have a copy of what they've said (i.e. this wasn't said over the phone)? What I shall do is PM you the contact I got in touch with at the previous management agent (CBRE). What i recommend you do is contact them asking for your ticket to be cancelled. Then when they reply with "we no longer manage that property or its car park", you essentially have proof that Britannia don't have valid authority to "manage" the car park.

    Unfortunately this info won't be able to help you at POPLA if you've already submitted your appeal but is something you should retain for what will probably a letter before claim and possible small court claim from the ever disreputable BW Legal.

    Did you assert they didn't have landowner authority in your POPLA appeal? It would be interesting to see the "witness statement" they churn out if they choose to contest the appeal to address this point if so. I reckon they will still be using the low quality witness statement that mentions CBRE.

    If you need more help when it comes to rebutting Britannia evidence at POPLA or if you receive a letter before claim from BW Legal then it would be best to start your own thread rather than reply on this thread. I also recommend for the benefit of yourself and other time tied regulars that you have a good read of the "Newbies" sticky thread if you haven't already.
    • MistyZ
    • By MistyZ 10th Mar 19, 9:11 AM
    • 461 Posts
    • 841 Thanks
    MistyZ
    Did you assert they didn't have landowner authority in your POPLA appeal? It would be interesting to see the "witness statement" they churn out if they choose to contest the appeal to address this point if so. I reckon they will still be using the low quality witness statement that mentions CBRE.
    Originally posted by LoneStarState
    Totally agree with LoneStar that the rebuttal stage could be quite fun from your point of view if Britannia produce a copy of the contract. My money's on it being a total shambles.

    And if you did include a 'no landowner authority' section in the appeal and their 'evidence' doesn't even touch on that, then you emphasise that there is no landowner authority and should win.

    Also agree you need to start your own thread, please do so 'cos I think there are quite a few of us in addition to the very experienced regulars who would enjoy helping with this.
    • Mirrorcarp
    • By Mirrorcarp 10th Mar 19, 6:32 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    Mirrorcarp
    Thanks for your input. I have now started my own thread.
    Portswood Centre, Britannia and Land management.
    • LoneStarState
    • By LoneStarState 15th Apr 19, 8:19 PM
    • 66 Posts
    • 119 Thanks
    LoneStarState
    Just a small update on the joke that is BW Legal.........

    Finally a response to the letter of claim rebuttal sent late September of LAST year, received on Saturday:

    "Dear XXXXX

    We write with reference to the above matter and your letter received on the 10th of April (errrmmmm it was sent nearly seven months ago).

    We confirm that your file was previously closed and we have returned the file back to our client."

    Never forget the ineptitude of this "specialist in legal recoveries"

    Glad to have gotten closure
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