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  • FIRST POST
    • our kids dad
    • By our kids dad 11th Jan 18, 10:00 PM
    • 17Posts
    • 3Thanks
    our kids dad
    Cope what is it?
    • #1
    • 11th Jan 18, 10:00 PM
    Cope what is it? 11th Jan 18 at 10:00 PM
    Conflicting reports on here and everywhere, cant seem to understand what it is and how it affects me.

    In a nutshell, my cope amount is 35 quid, does this mean when i retire i get state pension minus 35 quid or not?
    My gov gateway login tells me i will have enough years and i will qualify for full state pension etc, but years when contracted out are showing as paid full NI contributions.

    Depending on which article you read this COPE amount will be deducted form stet pension, ie 156 -35 IN MY CASE.

    Please someone sum this up so a simpleton can understand it?
Page 1
    • molerat
    • By molerat 11th Jan 18, 10:05 PM
    • 18,797 Posts
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    molerat
    • #2
    • 11th Jan 18, 10:05 PM
    • #2
    • 11th Jan 18, 10:05 PM
    COPE has no effect on the pension you will receive. It was only used in calculating your starting amount at April 2016 and will never see the light of day again. Your starting amount was the higher of the old state pension + additional pension (of which the figure you saw already had a contracted out deduction made) or the new state pension - COPE.

    I have never seen any articles where it states the COPE will be deducted from your pension amount.
    www.helpforheroes.org.uk/donations.html
    • our kids dad
    • By our kids dad 11th Jan 18, 10:07 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    our kids dad
    • #3
    • 11th Jan 18, 10:07 PM
    • #3
    • 11th Jan 18, 10:07 PM
    Sorry Molerat, dont understand most of that,

    The first bit you wrote, so COPE will not affect me getting full state pension?

    And why do my contracted out years show as having payed full NI contributions?
    • molerat
    • By molerat 11th Jan 18, 10:12 PM
    • 18,797 Posts
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    molerat
    • #4
    • 11th Jan 18, 10:12 PM
    • #4
    • 11th Jan 18, 10:12 PM
    Sorry Molerat, dont understand most of that,

    The first bit you wrote, so COPE will not affect me getting full state pension?

    And why do my contracted out years show as having payed full NI contributions?
    Originally posted by our kids dad
    No effect, you will receive what is shown on your forecast.

    You did pay full NI for the basic pension, it is just the additional pension you did not pay for.

    Your starting amount at April 2016 was no lower than you were entitled to already.
    www.helpforheroes.org.uk/donations.html
    • LHW99
    • By LHW99 11th Jan 18, 10:29 PM
    • 1,318 Posts
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    LHW99
    • #5
    • 11th Jan 18, 10:29 PM
    • #5
    • 11th Jan 18, 10:29 PM
    I think if you had retired in (say) May 2016, so that your pension was based on the old system, COPE was important in calculating what you would get.
    Now you are building up additional pension while you are working, until you have enough years / contributions to be due the full new pension, and the COPE amount (whatever it was) can effectively be ignored.
    • our kids dad
    • By our kids dad 11th Jan 18, 10:34 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    our kids dad
    • #6
    • 11th Jan 18, 10:34 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Jan 18, 10:34 PM
    Cheers men.

    Obvious question is though, by contracting out i have a pension thats done well over the last 18 years, 22k of the money in it was from NI contracting out (SERPS).

    Joe Blogs next to me didnt, both me an Joe will get full state pension, but ive got a private pension with tens of thousands in it and rising, he hasnt.

    How is that fair?
    • kangoora
    • By kangoora 11th Jan 18, 10:38 PM
    • 565 Posts
    • 384 Thanks
    kangoora
    • #7
    • 11th Jan 18, 10:38 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Jan 18, 10:38 PM
    I had a similar query which may help you?

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5772722
    • NorthernGeezer
    • By NorthernGeezer 11th Jan 18, 11:02 PM
    • 124 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    NorthernGeezer
    • #8
    • 11th Jan 18, 11:02 PM
    • #8
    • 11th Jan 18, 11:02 PM
    So, where are you penalised for the period you contracted out?
    • pensionpawn
    • By pensionpawn 11th Jan 18, 11:47 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    pensionpawn
    • #9
    • 11th Jan 18, 11:47 PM
    • #9
    • 11th Jan 18, 11:47 PM
    Cope (contracted out pension equivalent) is the amount that will removed from your full new state pension (for 35 years NI contributions: check via government gateway) for contracting out into a personal pension. However depending on how many years you have to SPA after the introduction of the new state pension you will potentially have time to 'earn' years under the new regime that will cancel out the cope figure. You will then benefit from the contracted out element in your private pension and a full new state pension. For me I need to contribute around another 6 years and SPA is well into the future. Mostly a problem for those who hit SPA shortly after the introduction of the new state pension although they will receive the maximum amount under the old state pension.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 12th Jan 18, 12:31 AM
    • 93,016 Posts
    • 60,402 Thanks
    dunstonh
    Joe Blogs next to me didnt, both me an Joe will get full state pension, but ive got a private pension with tens of thousands in it and rising, he hasnt.

    How is that fair?
    Its not quite as simple as that. Until you get to 35 years, those contracted out years work against you with a deduction. However, when you get to 35 years, every year under the new system after that will see a contracted out year drop off.

    One of the reasons for contracting out was to obtain potentially more. You took on some of the risk and that risk is paying off.

    There are actually bigger winners. For instance, the self-employed, under the old system only got the basic state pension. Under the new pension, they get the full amount. Remember when Hammond was crucified for trying to increase the NI contributions of the self-employed by an average of 47pence a week? This was just after the self-employed got a state pension increase of nearly 50per week.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • NorthernGeezer
    • By NorthernGeezer 12th Jan 18, 1:12 PM
    • 124 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    NorthernGeezer
    So let me get this straight...............................
    If my SP forecast states 173 a week, this is what i get, even though on page 2 of the statement it gives a COPE figure of 33?
    • Silvertabby
    • By Silvertabby 12th Jan 18, 1:16 PM
    • 2,859 Posts
    • 4,088 Thanks
    Silvertabby
    So let me get this straight...............................
    If my SP forecast states 173 a week, this is what i get, even though on page 2 of the statement it gives a COPE figure of 33?
    Originally posted by NorthernGeezer
    Yes, spot on.
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 12th Jan 18, 1:38 PM
    • 1,710 Posts
    • 2,308 Thanks
    badmemory
    The 33 is the minimum you should expect to receive from the pension which allowed you to pay reduced NI contributions for a few years & is now pretty much irrelevant apart from reminding you that you do have a DB pension iin your past.
    • NorthernGeezer
    • By NorthernGeezer 12th Jan 18, 1:54 PM
    • 124 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    NorthernGeezer
    Thanks guys, that's just uplifted my SP by 1500 a year.
    • pensionpawn
    • By pensionpawn 13th Jan 18, 12:49 AM
    • 36 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    pensionpawn
    From what I've read COPE is the figure TO BE removed from the quoted pension figure on the government gateway as this is your SERPs that went into your private pension instead. Hence although you may have enough qualifying years (35) for the new state pension as you have contracted out (before the new state pension) to the value of the COPE amount (which is in your private pension) this will be removed from your 35 year full state pension amount. So in the example above 173 - 33 = 140. For me I have estimate of 139 based on current NI contributions with a COPE of 48. However COPE can not reduce your state pension below the full old state pension of 122. The good news is as each qualifying year of NI contributions for the new state pension is 1/35 * 160 = 4.57, the difference between the maximum of the two state pension amounts, 160-122=38 can be made up with a maximum of 38/4.57 = 8.3 (9) qualifying years after the new state pension started. So no problem for anyone reaching SPA from 2025.
    • p00hsticks
    • By p00hsticks 13th Jan 18, 1:18 AM
    • 6,252 Posts
    • 6,709 Thanks
    p00hsticks
    From what I've read COPE is the figure TO BE removed from the quoted pension figure on the government gateway as this is your SERPs that went into your private pension instead.
    Originally posted by pensionpawn
    That's not correct. As others have said above, the COPE figure (if any) was used in the initial calculation of an individuals 'starting amount' at the point the new State Pension was introduced in April 2016. It does not then need to be subtracted again from that starting amount.
    • molerat
    • By molerat 13th Jan 18, 10:24 AM
    • 18,797 Posts
    • 12,958 Thanks
    molerat
    .............
    Originally posted by pensionpawn
    You seem to be confusing how the old and new systems work, applying some old rules to the new system.
    www.helpforheroes.org.uk/donations.html
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 13th Jan 18, 12:24 PM
    • 25,577 Posts
    • 15,105 Thanks
    xylophone
    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/447195/new-state-pension--effect-of-being-contracted-out.pdf

    The COPE is the "Rebate Derived Amount" described in the above.
    • pensionpawn
    • By pensionpawn 13th Jan 18, 11:00 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    pensionpawn
    That's not correct. As others have said above, the COPE figure (if any) was used in the initial calculation of an individuals 'starting amount' at the point the new State Pension was introduced in April 2016. It does not then need to be subtracted again from that starting amount.
    Originally posted by p00hsticks
    More than happy to be wrong about this. That means only 5 more years of qualifying NI so full state pension should be secured by 2022
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