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  • FIRST POST
    • cosmic4z
    • By cosmic4z 11th Jan 18, 3:26 PM
    • 59Posts
    • 21Thanks
    cosmic4z
    Court Claim Form received - advice please.
    • #1
    • 11th Jan 18, 3:26 PM
    Court Claim Form received - advice please. 11th Jan 18 at 3:26 PM
    Hope you can help...

    We (my elderly mom is the defendant) received a Claim Form from the County Court Business Center (in Northampton) this morning, 11 Jan 2018; relating to a parking incident in December 2013.

    I've read through post #2 in the newbies thread a few times, and as the claimant has filled out the Particulars of Claim box, the next step for us seems to be Acknowledgement of Service.

    Worth noting, the PoC seem a bit sparse. The claimant (VCS ltd / BW legal) hasn't responded to our response to their Letter of Claim; which amongst other things, we requested more extensive information / evidence regarding their claim. Our response to their LoC was late though (38 days after their LoC). See thread: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5767376

    I imagine that can be addressed later, and at this stage, I just need to send off the AoS.

    Is it better to use MCOL or return the AoS by post?

    I've tried not to include too much information here (don't want to include anything that would identify us), but if there's anything I've missed that would help us, please let me know and I'll include it in the thread.

    Kind Regards,
    Last edited by cosmic4z; 11-01-2018 at 3:33 PM.
Page 4
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th Jun 18, 1:27 PM
    • 61,405 Posts
    • 74,300 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    All you are writing is ''I am xxxx and I ... (story of what letters were received and what you did, if you appealed...'' then explain the disability situation and how the Equality At applies, which has already been fully explained to you 2 months ago.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • cosmic4z
    • By cosmic4z 19th Jun 18, 4:28 PM
    • 59 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    cosmic4z
    Making some good progress. Is it worth showing you my witness statement, to review and critique, before filing?


    Thanks for your help, apprecieate it!
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 19th Jun 18, 5:31 PM
    • 37,251 Posts
    • 21,405 Thanks
    Quentin
    How late is it??

    You now missed sending it today!
    • cosmic4z
    • By cosmic4z 19th Jun 18, 5:55 PM
    • 59 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    cosmic4z
    Thanks.


    I'm trying not to draw attention to the court date. Am I right in thinking I don't want to make public any details which could allow the other side to link their case with this thread?


    Can I file it electronically, maybe through MCOL? Failing that, I could deliver it in person to the court (not to the other party though).


    Just finished it by the way.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 5th Jul 18, 7:26 PM
    • 3,258 Posts
    • 5,460 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    How did it go?
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
    • cosmic4z
    • By cosmic4z 6th Jul 18, 1:24 PM
    • 59 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    cosmic4z
    Firstly, thanks for everyone's help and advice with this, really appreciate it.

    Sadly, we lost the case and have to pay 150 (50 of which is court fees).

    The point about allowing extra time for disabled / elderly was pretty much disregarded, the judge said that was accounted for by the 10 minutes grace period everyone gets. This seemed odd to me, as it's not an extra adjustment made for that cross-section of the population, it's applicable to all people.

    The judge wasn't impressed that it took so long to get to court (just over 5 years I think) and I suspect there may have been a different outcome had I not mentioned that we'd had kept all the debt collection letters (I felt pointing that out seemed to go against us).

    I honestly found the entire exercise to be a massive drain of my time, energy and attention. I guess it's like anything in life though, it makes much more sense and you'll have a better grasp of what needs doing and what's important, once you've gone through the entire process a few times.

    Naturally, I'm very happy it's all over, and just want to get the debt settled now ASAP. I've emailed BW legal about making payment, but not recieved a reply yet; I imagine they'll want to recieve paperwork from the court (confirming the amount etc) before taking payment?

    The lady representing the other side (she said she didn't work directly for them, was just hired to represent them on this case) said that the paperwork from the court could take a while to come through, sometimes it's slow. Does that sound correct?

    Thanks again for your help.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 6th Jul 18, 7:00 PM
    • 61,405 Posts
    • 74,300 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    The point about allowing extra time for disabled / elderly was pretty much disregarded, the judge said that was accounted for by the 10 minutes grace period everyone gets. This seemed odd to me, as it's not an extra adjustment made for that cross-section of the population, it's applicable to all people.
    That's not just odd, it's not correct, not a reasonable adjustment at all. Applying the same time to all people, is in itself discriminatory.

    Did you say that and use the EA and the EA Service Provider Code of Practice to point out that, whilst a 10 minute grace period may be OK for able bodied people, it is not for people with mobility problems, and indeed they should be given more parking time for their money.

    Sigh...Why do Judges not get the Equality Act? Did you struggle to put across the law, do you think, or was Mum speaking for herself and couldn't explain the law?

    So frustrating that a Judge doesn't understand or properly apply statute law regarding disability.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • cosmic4z
    • By cosmic4z 6th Jul 18, 11:01 PM
    • 59 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    cosmic4z
    Did you struggle to put across the law, do you think, or was Mum speaking for herself and couldn't explain the law?
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad

    Both really.


    At the start of the hearing, I was directed by the judge to sit at the back of room. I think the judge was largely sympathetic to us, and could tell my mom was out of her depth and she invited me to sit up front, and more and more as the hearing progressed I found myself presenting the case for the defence.


    I'm not sure if there was something I should have done earlier on (before the hearing) to indicate that I would be representing the defence? Not sure what the official title would be, for a person with no legal training to be presenting the case for the defence on behalf of the defendant. What's that called? What's the process for indicating I would be that?


    When the judge made a statement indicating the adjustment for disabled / elderly is covered by the 10 mins grace period; I thought it best not to argue with them. I didn't think that would have gone down well at all; probably would have just offended them and made matters worse for us. Also, the hearing felt very formal, lots of rules etc; and the other side kept calling the judge 'maam', it all just made me feel very anxious about breaching any etiquette or rules and doing things in the 'right' way.


    I brought up the case with Norwich city council too; which was disregarded I think because it wasn't similar; in that instance you're getting double payed for time, in our case it was first 2 hours free; so it wasn't comparable.


    Verdict is not ideal, but I completely accept it (don't have any option really), and just want to focus on getting it payed, and then putting it completely behind me. Do I wait until the court sends out paperwork confirming the verdict? They will do that yeah?


    Thanks again to you Coupon Mad and everyone else who has offered their support and advice and put up with my frustration at times!


    Thanks again.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 7th Jul 18, 12:54 AM
    • 61,405 Posts
    • 74,300 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I'm not sure if there was something I should have done earlier on (before the hearing) to indicate that I would be representing the defence? Not sure what the official title would be, for a person with no legal training to be presenting the case for the defence on behalf of the defendant. What's that called? What's the process for indicating I would be that?
    A lay rep, and it's covered in tons of threads.

    When the judge made a statement indicating the adjustment for disabled / elderly is covered by the 10 mins grace period; I thought it best not to argue with them.
    Oh dear. I tried hard to arm you with the right info, 2 months ago.

    Also, the hearing felt very formal, lots of rules etc; and the other side kept calling the judge 'maam', it all just made me feel very anxious about breaching any etiquette or rules and doing things in the 'right' way.
    If you had asked or read other court reports here you'd have known to call the Judge Sir or Ma'am, and what to expect. Some courts are very formal.
    Do I wait until the court sends out paperwork confirming the verdict? They will do that yeah?
    Yes but making sure you pay well within 30 days.

    Such a shame. Winning these cases is as much about being prepared as anything else. Sounds like you found yourselves a little under-prepared. The Norwich case IS applicable and so is the law.

    Put it behind you and never get another scam PCN, be careful out there.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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