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  • FIRST POST
    • fleetingmind
    • By fleetingmind 11th Jan 18, 12:15 PM
    • 387Posts
    • 57Thanks
    fleetingmind
    Who Determines if You're a First Time buyer for Stamp Duty?
    • #1
    • 11th Jan 18, 12:15 PM
    Who Determines if You're a First Time buyer for Stamp Duty? 11th Jan 18 at 12:15 PM
    If I bought a house say 20 years ago and lived there for 5 years then rented since due to divorce. If i have rented ever since and with my new wife rented for over 10 years and she's never owned a house are we classed as first time buyers and would avoid stamp duty?

    What stage is this looked into to avoid people calming for this when not eligible?

    I've been told it's over 10 years so classed as a first time buyer so no stamp duty up to 300k. I think this wrong as I'm not a first time buyer.
Page 1
    • ReadingTim
    • By ReadingTim 11th Jan 18, 12:17 PM
    • 2,738 Posts
    • 3,915 Thanks
    ReadingTim
    • #2
    • 11th Jan 18, 12:17 PM
    • #2
    • 11th Jan 18, 12:17 PM
    The government, via HMRC does, as outlined here
    Last edited by ReadingTim; 11-01-2018 at 12:20 PM.
    • googler
    • By googler 11th Jan 18, 12:18 PM
    • 14,784 Posts
    • 9,706 Thanks
    googler
    • #3
    • 11th Jan 18, 12:18 PM
    • #3
    • 11th Jan 18, 12:18 PM
    Who determines? The Govt, in accordance with their published rules and legislation. Have you read them?
    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 11th Jan 18, 12:21 PM
    • 7,981 Posts
    • 14,516 Thanks
    bowlhead99
    • #4
    • 11th Jan 18, 12:21 PM
    • #4
    • 11th Jan 18, 12:21 PM
    If I bought a house say 20 years ago and lived there for 5 years then rented since due to divorce. If i have rented ever since and with my new wife rented for over 10 years and she's never owned a house are we classed as first time buyers and would avoid stamp duty?
    Originally posted by fleetingmind
    Clearly not. You just said that you bought a house in the past
    What stage is this looked into to avoid people calming for this when not eligible?
    In practice, HMRC can look at it whenever they like. Tax fraud is not something you want to get caught for. So, it's somewhat self-policing.

    I've been told it's over 10 years so classed as a first time buyer so no stamp duty up to 300k. I think this wrong as I'm not a first time buyer.
    Ignore what you've been told by a bloke down the pub. You can simply google it, look it up at gov.uk, ask your conveyancing solicitor etc etc.
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 11th Jan 18, 12:33 PM
    • 7,837 Posts
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    davidmcn
    • #5
    • 11th Jan 18, 12:33 PM
    • #5
    • 11th Jan 18, 12:33 PM
    Like most tax these days, it's self-assessment - so in the first place it's up to you to determine it. And then wait for the knock at the door when HMRC discover you were fibbing.
    • fleetingmind
    • By fleetingmind 11th Jan 18, 1:07 PM
    • 387 Posts
    • 57 Thanks
    fleetingmind
    • #6
    • 11th Jan 18, 1:07 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Jan 18, 1:07 PM
    I really appreciate the replies. I've called HMRC as advised and they have confirmed this.

    I was surprised when the FA said after 10 years it was expired and I was classed as a first time buyer again. I certainly won't be using her again.
    • pinklady21
    • By pinklady21 11th Jan 18, 1:23 PM
    • 610 Posts
    • 423 Thanks
    pinklady21
    • #7
    • 11th Jan 18, 1:23 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Jan 18, 1:23 PM
    Did the broker mean FTB for a mortgage deal, or FTB for Stamp Duty purposes?
    • fleetingmind
    • By fleetingmind 11th Jan 18, 1:41 PM
    • 387 Posts
    • 57 Thanks
    fleetingmind
    • #8
    • 11th Jan 18, 1:41 PM
    • #8
    • 11th Jan 18, 1:41 PM
    Did the broker mean FTB for a mortgage deal, or FTB for Stamp Duty purposes?
    Originally posted by pinklady21
    It was for Stamp Duty as I was advising what money I would need for deposit, fees and stamp duty and explaining it's 15k for stamp duty.

    A FTB mortgage over a normal one wouldn't save you a lot of money would it?!
    • saajan_12
    • By saajan_12 11th Jan 18, 5:06 PM
    • 1,252 Posts
    • 873 Thanks
    saajan_12
    • #9
    • 11th Jan 18, 5:06 PM
    • #9
    • 11th Jan 18, 5:06 PM
    Tax is largely done on a self assessment basis, so you make a declaration and HMRC can check (and fine if they find wrongdoing) after the fact. That way
    1) it discourages cheating through the threat of being caught without spending loads on agents to check before the fact

    2) for the taxpayer, there's not always a clear set of checkboxes to prove, after which you've "got away with it", the threat of being caught remains for an extended period after
    • ReadingTim
    • By ReadingTim 11th Jan 18, 6:25 PM
    • 2,738 Posts
    • 3,915 Thanks
    ReadingTim
    Like most tax these days, it's self-assessment - so in the first place it's up to you to determine it. And then wait for the knock at the door when HMRC discover you were fibbing.
    Originally posted by davidmcn
    It's generally only self-assessment if you're self-conveyancing. Otherwise your solicitor does it for you. Payment in advance, Ithankyouverymuch. Suspect also if you're getting a mortgage, your mortgage provider might not be too keen on you self-assessing either....

    You, as purchaser, remain liable for any errors , be they made in good faith or not...
    • kingstreet
    • By kingstreet 11th Jan 18, 6:45 PM
    • 33,565 Posts
    • 18,204 Thanks
    kingstreet
    It's generally only self-assessment if you're self-conveyancing. Otherwise your solicitor does it for you. Payment in advance, Ithankyouverymuch. Suspect also if you're getting a mortgage, your mortgage provider might not be too keen on you self-assessing either....

    You, as purchaser, remain liable for any errors , be they made in good faith or not...
    Originally posted by ReadingTim
    You tell your solicitor if you've owned a property before or you haven't owned a property before.

    The return is based on that.

    The only checking is done by HMRC post-submission.

    Mortgage lenders toss the liability to solicitors under the CML Handbook which basically tells solicitors to get the money ahead of completion, or pay it themselves...
    I am a mortgage broker. You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a Mortgage Adviser, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice. Please do not send PMs asking for one-to-one-advice, or representation.
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 11th Jan 18, 6:51 PM
    • 7,837 Posts
    • 8,019 Thanks
    davidmcn
    It's generally only self-assessment if you're self-conveyancing. Otherwise your solicitor does it for you. Payment in advance, Ithankyouverymuch. Suspect also if you're getting a mortgage, your mortgage provider might not be too keen on you self-assessing either....

    You, as purchaser, remain liable for any errors , be they made in good faith or not...
    Originally posted by ReadingTim
    Your solicitor may offer you advice, but they're very likely to make clear that it's your tax return and ultimately all liability is yours. Solicitor certainly isn't liable to HMRC or anyone else if their client is lying to them.
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