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  • FIRST POST
    • Ash_G88
    • By Ash_G88 11th Jan 18, 8:11 AM
    • 8Posts
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    Ash_G88
    Ukcpm pcn
    • #1
    • 11th Jan 18, 8:11 AM
    Ukcpm pcn 11th Jan 18 at 8:11 AM
    Hello people.

    Just over a month ago I was moving property and am now living in Japan. A friend of mine was helping me move and while upstairs in my flat for 15 minutes we came downstairs to see some unhappy chap from UKCPM taking pictures of my friends car to which I said “excuse me fella she’s helping me move (we had boxes full of stuff we were about to load into the car) and he said nothing and walked away.

    This friend in question also has traveled to japan on a working holiday and thus sold this car end of November. Her mother has gotten in touch to show that ukcpm has gone to dvla and gotten her address and is insisting on £100 from her and supplied photographs of the car BUT with no photographs showing the ticket on the car which she genuinely never received. I’ve gotten out of paying this exact ticket in the past with the not a genuine pre estimate of loss etc but the reason for the new thread is because that was many years ago and also we are both abroad and want to do this correctly with input from people in the know such as yourselves.

    I can’t post a link to a cope of the letter due to being a new member.

    Any feedback greatly appreciated.
Page 1
    • Ash_G88
    • By Ash_G88 11th Jan 18, 8:38 AM
    • 8 Posts
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    Ash_G88
    • #2
    • 11th Jan 18, 8:38 AM
    • #2
    • 11th Jan 18, 8:38 AM
    Just noticed in the photo graph it says the issue date was the 5th December when we can prove our entry into japan was on the 4th December and i had moved out of that location on the 25th November. So I have no idea what they are trying to pull.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 11th Jan 18, 9:25 AM
    • 2,748 Posts
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    nosferatu1001
    • #3
    • 11th Jan 18, 9:25 AM
    • #3
    • 11th Jan 18, 9:25 AM
    So the vehicle was not there on the date and time alleged? Complete POFA failure.

    Additionally this falls squarely into Jopson case territory - loading is NOT parking.
    • Ash_G88
    • By Ash_G88 11th Jan 18, 9:27 AM
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    Ash_G88
    • #4
    • 11th Jan 18, 9:27 AM
    • #4
    • 11th Jan 18, 9:27 AM
    After being sent screen shot of the letter the letter issue date was the 5th when we were in japan but it says the date the pcn was issued was the 21st November but I was not issued and they have supplied not evidence that there was one issued to the car.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Jan 18, 9:40 PM
    • 58,434 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    • #5
    • 11th Jan 18, 9:40 PM
    • #5
    • 11th Jan 18, 9:40 PM
    Friend writes to UKCPM, and keeps a free PO 'certificate of posting' (and a copy of her letter), that says:

    Ash_G88 was the keeper* of the car on the material date, and Ash_G88 had authority to use the car to unload goods from the flat that was being vacated, as Ash_G88 was moving out and has now emigrated to Japan. Here is the address at which Ash_G88 can be reached:

    xxxx
    Japan

    However, the keeper on the day, Ash_G88, would rely on the persuasive (and lost by Gladstones solicitors) Appeal case of Jopson v Homeguard [2016] which is on all fours with this case, where HHJ Charles Harris QC observed that life in a block of flats would be ''unworkable'' if residents could not briefly load/unload where rights of access clearly exist.

    As such, cancel the charge or write to the keeper in Japan, but cease contacting the registered keeper in this instance.



    *NB: keeper is a loose term, so it is true, you were 'keeping' it at your place of residence at the material date/time.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Ash_G88
    • By Ash_G88 11th Jan 18, 10:31 PM
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    Ash_G88
    • #6
    • 11th Jan 18, 10:31 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Jan 18, 10:31 PM
    So copy and paste and send what you!!!8217;ve written above? And no doubt they shall deny this then ask for a POPLA case number etc,

    Also do they need to apply evidence of the ticket being displayed on the car?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Jan 18, 12:38 AM
    • 58,434 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    • #7
    • 12th Jan 18, 12:38 AM
    • #7
    • 12th Jan 18, 12:38 AM
    You can't completely copy/paste as I called you Ash_G88, but yes, it's for her to use to dispute the matter and throw it into the long grass as you are in Japan.

    And no doubt they shall deny this then ask for a POPLA case number etc,
    No because UKCPM are not in the BPA. No POPLA, nothing worthwhile, hence why I decided if you were happy to be named as the 'keeper' of that car on that date, it's the best way to stall them and remove her liability. Up to you, as it puts it in your name instead, but if you are living in Japan for the foreseeable future then they can't sue you.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Ash_G88
    • By Ash_G88 12th Jan 18, 12:56 AM
    • 8 Posts
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    Ash_G88
    • #8
    • 12th Jan 18, 12:56 AM
    • #8
    • 12th Jan 18, 12:56 AM
    I!!!8217;m working in japan and then onward to New Zealand. But still maintain a uk address if that makes things more difficult to me. But I do have an address here in japan currently.

    When I fought with ukcpm mine wet to a POPLa in the end which I won.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Jan 18, 1:02 AM
    • 58,434 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 12th Jan 18, 1:02 AM
    • #9
    • 12th Jan 18, 1:02 AM
    That was when UKCPM were in the BPA, they jumped ship ages ago. No appeal worth trying with the IAS in most cases but we'll see what UKCPM come back with.


    But still maintain a uk address if that makes things more difficult
    Nope because they don't have it, and will only be given your Japanese one.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • logician
    • By logician 12th Jan 18, 2:18 AM
    • 194 Posts
    • 76 Thanks
    logician
    This friend in question also has traveled to japan on a working holiday and thus sold this car end of November. Her mother has gotten
    Originally posted by Ash_G88


    Friend writes to UKCPM, and keeps a free PO 'certificate of posting' (and a copy of her letter), that says:
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    You can't completely copy/paste as I called you Ash_G88, but yes, it's for her to use to dispute the matter and throw it into the long grass as you are in Japan.

    No because UKCPM are not in the BPA. No POPLA, nothing worthwhile, hence why I decided if you were happy to be named as the 'keeper' of that car on that date, it's the best way to stall them and remove her liability. Up to you, as it puts it in your name instead, but if you are living in Japan for the foreseeable future then they can't sue you.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    But The friend is also in Japan...

    I would recommend that the friend's mother notifies the PPC that the RK is not residing at the address and can be contacted at the Japan address.

    It would be a hard act to try and transfer keeper liability to a new keeper on the basis that the friend was a bona fide visitor to the property and assisting in the move and the vehicle was 'kept' whilst loading. The concept of a 'keeper' is someone with day to day control of the vehicle, which I doubt very much whether the OP has.

    The OP as it stands has no liability as the resident for the charge unless they were the driver. In which case, this would be a prime example of when to discharge keeper liability and name the driver, especially if the OP will not be in the UK for some time.
    Last edited by logician; 12-01-2018 at 2:22 AM.
    • Ash_G88
    • By Ash_G88 12th Jan 18, 9:04 AM
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    Ash_G88
    Also does the charge need to be on the windscreen with evidence of it being so. No charge was actually issued on that day. We only knew about this once a letter was sent after cpm had gone via dvla
    • Ash_G88
    • By Ash_G88 12th Jan 18, 9:19 AM
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    Ash_G88
    And if the car park signs state they are members of the bpa does this mean their contract on the walls are no valid? As they still have BPA on them.
    • Ash_G88
    • By Ash_G88 12th Jan 18, 9:24 AM
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    Ash_G88
    Triple post sorry.

    UPDATE. My mother has just received a letter claiming they!!!8217;ve been to dvla for address and that she owes cpm £100 also from the same day when she was helping me move with her little transit Kinect. She spoke to the guy who was issuing tickets and explained and he said ok. She also had no idea she had a charge untill this letter dropped on her doormat this morning.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 12th Jan 18, 9:39 AM
    • 2,748 Posts
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    nosferatu1001
    11 - only if they claim that a NtD was on the windscreen, if you claim there was not one then their time to get the info through to the keeper is 14 days in order to make the keeper liable.

    You keep identifying the driver in your posts. EDIT THEM NOW, DONT do this!
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