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  • FIRST POST
    • flothy
    • By flothy 11th Jan 18, 12:55 AM
    • 32Posts
    • 76Thanks
    flothy
    Court claim form for child
    • #1
    • 11th Jan 18, 12:55 AM
    Court claim form for child 11th Jan 18 at 12:55 AM
    Hi

    I have read all the newbies info but would like advice on how to proceed with court claim that was received in my sons name.

    The registered keeper is my son who was aged 6 when he received a parking ticket. He is disabled and the car was parked in a disabled bay displaying his blue badge.

    The private car park sign stated no free parking for blue badge so we purchased a parking ticket. Due to my sons condition we were slightly late back to the car (15 minutes max) and received a parking ticket.

    When we received the letter we contacted the company and explained the situation. They advised us that unless we disclosed who was driving the car they would continue to write to our son. We explained we take him to the park daily and could not confirm what carer was driving. We contacted the land owners and explained the situation and they provided a number for the park manager. We contacted him and he said he would speak to them to waive it and they would not be able to take a child to court.

    We moved house and today collected post from our previous home (childs name was not on our redirection). A claim form has been sent from Northampton courts to our child.

    I have drafted a letter drawing on the breaches of the code of practice, equality act, reasonable adjustments etc along with the fact the defendant is only seven now.I called the companies legal team and they asked if they could speak to the child! Then asked for evidence of age.

    Just wanted advice on if I should contact courts first or send this letter to the company?
Page 2
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 11th Jan 18, 10:55 AM
    • 2,404 Posts
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    IamEmanresu
    As you can appreciate it is difficult enough to care for a disabled child without this additional stress of him having a court claim.
    That is exactly the purpose of the claim which is to harass people into doing something that is not in their interests.

    It's an automated process which is why people often wonder why no-one appears to be listening. No-one is listening as you are dealing with two computers - one a BW and one at the court.

    Take a deep breath and read the Newbies thread that deals with Court claims. The stage you are at requires someone to Acknowledge receipt of the paperwork. It can be done online with the added issue of someone needing to step up as the Litigation Friend as discussed by Bargepole at #4.

    Two minute job to give you some more time to get help here.
    Idiots please note: If you intend NOT to read the information on the Notice of Allocation and hand a simple win to the knuckle dragging ex-clampers, then don't waste people's time with questions on a claim you'll not defend.
    • flothy
    • By flothy 11th Jan 18, 11:00 AM
    • 32 Posts
    • 76 Thanks
    flothy
    This is most certainly not spam.

    I have not posted on here in years as you have pointed out, apologies if my responses are slow. The advice I have been provided has been gratefully received.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 11th Jan 18, 11:15 AM
    • 2,714 Posts
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    nosferatu1001
    OK so:

    1) Have you informed BW legal formally of the age of the defendant? Provide proof. Inform them that you are applying to the court as per the advice on page 1. State you cannot acknowledge the claim until this point as the defendant is a minor and cannot do so, and state that they MUST NOT move for a default judgement. If they do you will report them to the SRA.
    2) If Napier knew the defendant was a minor, then is there any counterclaim potential?
    3) Get onto that N235 form!
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 11th Jan 18, 11:24 AM
    • 9,455 Posts
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    The Deep
    And make sure that the local paper are aware that a 6 year old has been issued with a parking ticket.
    Originally posted by unforeseen
    Not only the local paper, I am sure that the Daily Mail will jump on it.


    The parking company were told on the phone that the RK was a minor they said they would keep harassing him until we admit who was driving.


    Never engage with scammers on the telephone, should this get to court, judges love paper-trails.
    Last edited by The Deep; 11-01-2018 at 11:33 AM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • flothy
    • By flothy 11th Jan 18, 11:33 AM
    • 32 Posts
    • 76 Thanks
    flothy
    1) Have you informed BW legal formally of the age of the defendant? Provide proof. Inform them that you are applying to the court as per the advice on page 1. State you cannot acknowledge the claim until this point as the defendant is a minor and cannot do so, and state that they MUST NOT move for a default judgement. If they do you will report them to the SRA.
    2) If Napier knew the defendant was a minor, then is there any counterclaim potential?
    3) Get onto that N235 form!
    1) I have only advised them verbally yesterday and drafting the letter now. Is it acceptable to send this as an email? They provided an email address yesterday,
    2) I have asked this question to BMPA
    3) on it

    Thank you

    Is it also worth contacting the land owners again?
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 11th Jan 18, 11:35 AM
    • 4,152 Posts
    • 5,886 Thanks
    Half_way
    the landowner will be jointly liable for the actions of its agents, In this case the parking company, do not phone email or write you must have a traceable record.
    before you email them post it here first.
    who is the landowner?
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 11th Jan 18, 11:42 AM
    • 2,404 Posts
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    IamEmanresu
    the landowner will be jointly liable for the actions of its agents,
    If it is Napier, they are the landowner and will be happy to bare the liability for the action of their agents.

    Red herring there.
    Idiots please note: If you intend NOT to read the information on the Notice of Allocation and hand a simple win to the knuckle dragging ex-clampers, then don't waste people's time with questions on a claim you'll not defend.
    • flothy
    • By flothy 11th Jan 18, 11:43 AM
    • 32 Posts
    • 76 Thanks
    flothy
    who is the landowner?
    The landowner is Parks Trust, they ignored my initial correspondence by email but responded to contact on social media and referred me to the manager at Willen Lake
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 11th Jan 18, 11:54 AM
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    IamEmanresu
    The landowner is Parks Trust
    I stand corrected.

    From the Napier site for this location

    2. OWNERSHIP OF CAR PARK/ASSIGNMENT OF RIGHTS.
    (a) This Car Park is owned by The Parks Trust Ltd. The Parks Trust Ltd has entered into a contract with us whereby all rights and obligations concerning the management and administration of the parking services at the Car Park are assigned to us. If you leave a vehicle parked in this Car Park, you enter into a contract with us and will signify acceptance of this fact. Your obligation includes, but is not limited to, the obligation to pay us charges for parking and also the charges applied under a Fixed Charge Notice if you breach these Terms and Conditions of Parking. In the event that any Fixed Charge Notice remains unpaid, you acknowledge that we shall be entitled to issue court proceedings as the claimant.

    (b) For the avoidance of doubt, we are not responsible for the maintenance of the physical fabric of the Car Park
    and shall bear no liability for any claim(s) of whatever nature arising from the same.
    Idiots please note: If you intend NOT to read the information on the Notice of Allocation and hand a simple win to the knuckle dragging ex-clampers, then don't waste people's time with questions on a claim you'll not defend.
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 11th Jan 18, 11:58 AM
    • 1,353 Posts
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    Lamilad
    I suggest you contact your local and national TV and Radio and local and national press, as well as your MP.
    Couldn't agree more. The press would have a field day with this, giving Napier and BW Legal a nice big dollop of public humiliation.
    • flothy
    • By flothy 11th Jan 18, 2:29 PM
    • 32 Posts
    • 76 Thanks
    flothy
    Struggling to draft the email/letter to BW Legal. Is something along these lines ok?

    Further to our telephone conversation we have attached confidential information to support the fact XXXX is a seven year old child. Due to the defendant being a minor that your client Napier Parking and the Parks Trust was aware was the registered keeper we cannot acknowledge the claim until the N235 has been processed.

    We request that due to the attached evidence that confirms that the defendant is a minor that you must not move to a default judgement. If you ignore this request we will have no choice but to report you to the Solicitors Regulation Authority.


    Also do I need to put my details at this point? I haven'd disclosed them before.
    • flothy
    • By flothy 11th Jan 18, 2:34 PM
    • 32 Posts
    • 76 Thanks
    flothy
    Couldn't agree more. The press would have a field day with this, giving Napier and BW Legal a nice big dollop of public humiliation.
    Originally posted by Lamilad
    I am considering this but also have to decide if it is in the best interest of my child. If they continue to pursue I may have no choice.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 11th Jan 18, 2:50 PM
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    nosferatu1001
    Flothy - Yes, I would put the full details in as parent or guardian.
    That draft looks OK

    EMAIL is perfectly fine. I would make sure you ensure it gets sent to both the claimant AND the solicitor, so neither can claim they didnt know.

    They will NOT have complied with POFA to hold the Keeper liable, and even if they did, cannot hold the RK liable - theyd have to prove who the actual keeper was, which they will struggle to do as they cannot compel anyone to answer, and it is self evident that a child would not be the person in day to day CHARGE of the vehicle.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 11th Jan 18, 3:00 PM
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    IamEmanresu
    theyd have to prove who the actual keeper was
    Burden is on the RK to show who was the real keeper according to POFA 2012

    !!!8220;keeper!!!8221; means the person by whom the vehicle is kept at the time the vehicle was parked, which in the case of a registered vehicle is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to be the registered keeper;
    Idiots please note: If you intend NOT to read the information on the Notice of Allocation and hand a simple win to the knuckle dragging ex-clampers, then don't waste people's time with questions on a claim you'll not defend.
    • flothy
    • By flothy 11th Jan 18, 7:17 PM
    • 32 Posts
    • 76 Thanks
    flothy
    Thanks for everyone's help so far.

    I have just been reading the newbies board and just wanted to know if someone could clarify what trade association Napier are affiliated too? I believe it to be IPC but their website still carries the logo for membership with BPA??
    • pappa golf
    • By pappa golf 11th Jan 18, 7:20 PM
    • 8,706 Posts
    • 9,308 Thanks
    pappa golf
    company details inc owner and statement of ATA company https://bmpa.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/203628661-Napier-Parking-Ltd
    • Redx
    • By Redx 11th Jan 18, 7:22 PM
    • 18,309 Posts
    • 23,188 Thanks
    Redx
    IPC

    the shape of the logo dictates which ADR they also belong to (a rectangle or a roundel) , and they moved from the BPA to the IPC on the date shown on the IPC website which denotes they use the IAS for ADR

    clearly they are corporate members of the BPA and can actually do that for both if they so wish (and have done)

    apart from the issue of when the incident occurred (as to which ADR may be available and which CoP applied at the time) there is no mileage in being members of both trade bodies


    the way I explain it is like having a Barclays and also a Natwest bank accounts , but where I use the NATWEST for bill payments like DD , SO and cheques (but I used to use say Barclays for all of this until say 2 years ago)
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Jan 18, 7:48 PM
    • 58,322 Posts
    • 71,856 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    The parking company were told on the phone that the RK was a minor they said they would keep harassing him until we admit who was driving.

    Never engage with scammers on the telephone, should this get to court, judges love paper-trails.
    Originally posted by The Deep
    Surely you are not calling Mr De Savary, Napier owner, a scammer?

    I reckon he will scurry to cancel & avoid the bad publicity. The OP should address their response to BW Legal and to Mr De Savary (marked 'strictly private - for the personal attention of...') at Napier.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 11-01-2018 at 7:52 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • flothy
    • By flothy 11th Jan 18, 8:01 PM
    • 32 Posts
    • 76 Thanks
    flothy
    Surely you are not calling Mr De Savary, Napier owner, a scammer?

    I reckon he will scurry to cancel & avoid the bad publicity. The OP should address their response to BW Legal and to Mr Savary at Napier.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    I have just realised that I recognise the name Jamie De Savary. He actually use to personally manage Willen Lake and the car park, thought he was a nice guy...not now.

    I will definitely respond to both, I was thinking of copying in the landowner too?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th Jan 18, 8:30 PM
    • 58,322 Posts
    • 71,856 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I think if you write politely to Mr De Savary, focussing on the 'mistake by BW Legal who are known to make robo-claims without reading any detail' he might well cancel this one, if you say you will be publicising it further.

    Yes copy in the landowner and remind them that they remain liable for the actions of their agent on this land and cannot 'assign' and absolve themselves of their legal duties as a service provider, to comply with the Equality Act 2010 (e.g. in not harassing or demanding money unfairly from a disabled person and their carers, who are also 'protected' under the Act).

    Send the same letter to both Napier/De Savary and the landowners, so Napier can stew and see the landowner's got a copy!

    Don't drop the ball on the claim though, do as bargepole and IamEmanresu said; I know that they both have law qualifications.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 11-01-2018 at 8:32 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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