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    • foreversummer
    • By foreversummer 10th Jan 18, 5:24 PM
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    foreversummer
    Old Allied Dunbar Pension
    • #1
    • 10th Jan 18, 5:24 PM
    Old Allied Dunbar Pension 10th Jan 18 at 5:24 PM
    Hi

    So hubby now reaching 60 years of age with an old Allied Dunbar Pension, now Zurich. He has the grand sum of £25000. He won't be retiring and we are consider transferring it to a SIPP where we will choose our own funds and keep it invested with a view to drawdown later.

    Whenever he has received a annual statement in the past, the transfer fees were huge. If he transfers it once he has reached the magic retirement age will transfer fees still apply? There is no mention of any exit fees in the correspondence they have sent him. I also notice on their website that they talk about a government limit of 1% on exit fees. I'm a bit confused how this fits into the picture.

    Obviously we can ring and ask them tomorrow but just thought you learned people might know the answer.

    Foreversummer
Page 1
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 10th Jan 18, 5:55 PM
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    dunstonh
    • #2
    • 10th Jan 18, 5:55 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Jan 18, 5:55 PM
    Many old AD pensions are actually very cheap once you stop paying into them. They had high contribution charges but low annual charges. So, make sure your reasons for moving it are good enough. Zurich have a number of funds available on those old AD plans.

    There is a cap of 1% on transfer charges once you hit the decumulation age (55). There are some types of charges that are not included within that though.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • foreversummer
    • By foreversummer 10th Jan 18, 6:10 PM
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    foreversummer
    • #3
    • 10th Jan 18, 6:10 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Jan 18, 6:10 PM
    Thank you dunstonh.

    He currently is investing in the Managed AP fund and a little in the Managed Capital AP fund. I've no idea on the fund charges for these. I am wondering how they compare to the Vanguard LS funds in which I have in my pension with HL.
    • OldMusicGuy
    • By OldMusicGuy 10th Jan 18, 6:32 PM
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    OldMusicGuy
    • #4
    • 10th Jan 18, 6:32 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Jan 18, 6:32 PM
    My wife has an old AD pension that we just found out about and there is no fee for transferring it to a SIPP. It is all in the Managed AP fund and there is a .92% charge on that fund. You can find the details on the Zurich website.

    If you invested in VLS through HL the total charge would be .67% (.45% platform plus .22% fund fee). We are thinking of just that move......
    Last edited by OldMusicGuy; 10-01-2018 at 6:37 PM.
    • ffacoffipawb
    • By ffacoffipawb 10th Jan 18, 7:01 PM
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    ffacoffipawb
    • #5
    • 10th Jan 18, 7:01 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Jan 18, 7:01 PM
    Many old AD pensions are actually very cheap once you stop paying into them. They had high contribution charges but low annual charges. So, make sure your reasons for moving it are good enough. Zurich have a number of funds available on those old AD plans.

    There is a cap of 1% on transfer charges once you hit the decumulation age (55). There are some types of charges that are not included within that though.
    Originally posted by dunstonh
    I donít think the 1% cap applies to conventional with profits policies though?
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 11th Jan 18, 8:56 AM
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    Malthusian
    • #6
    • 11th Jan 18, 8:56 AM
    • #6
    • 11th Jan 18, 8:56 AM
    I donít think the 1% cap applies to conventional with profits policies though?
    Originally posted by ffacoffipawb
    It doesn't apply to market value reductions, no. The 1% cap is for administrative charges on exit, not for when you have a With Profits investment and the insurer wants to pay you the real value of your share instead of the pretend value that appears on the statement.

    But it's moot as the OP doesn't have a With Profits policy.
    • ffacoffipawb
    • By ffacoffipawb 11th Jan 18, 7:36 PM
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    ffacoffipawb
    • #7
    • 11th Jan 18, 7:36 PM
    • #7
    • 11th Jan 18, 7:36 PM
    But it's moot as the OP doesn't have a With Profits policy.
    Originally posted by Malthusian
    I don't think we know one way or another?
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 11th Jan 18, 9:49 PM
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    dunstonh
    • #8
    • 11th Jan 18, 9:49 PM
    • #8
    • 11th Jan 18, 9:49 PM
    I don't think we know one way or another?
    Originally posted by ffacoffipawb
    AD were a unit linked provider.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • foreversummer
    • By foreversummer 12th Jan 18, 5:27 PM
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    foreversummer
    • #9
    • 12th Jan 18, 5:27 PM
    • #9
    • 12th Jan 18, 5:27 PM
    My wife has an old AD pension that we just found out about and there is no fee for transferring it to a SIPP. It is all in the Managed AP fund and there is a .92% charge on that fund. You can find the details on the Zurich website.

    If you invested in VLS through HL the total charge would be .67% (.45% platform plus .22% fund fee). We are thinking of just that move......
    Originally posted by OldMusicGuy
    Thanks for this. However, have today received a list of funds from the financial adviser who somehow got linked to the pension. The Zurich Managed AP fund on this is showing as 0.17% for the fund expense with an extra yearly charge of 0. Now I'm intrigued why we have different figures. The Managed Capital AP is not showing on there though. I can't find anything on the Zurich website. If you can point me in the right direction I'd much appreciate it.

    He also says that there will be no exit or transfer fees once hubby reaches retirement age next week.

    Foreversummer
    Last edited by foreversummer; 12-01-2018 at 5:35 PM.
    • OldMusicGuy
    • By OldMusicGuy 12th Jan 18, 6:03 PM
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    OldMusicGuy
    I went by this which is the link direct from the Zurich "view your funds" website:
    http://factsheets.financialexpress.net/zuri/APMGD1_HB47_ZUR.pdf

    SEDOL number is 0406181, maybe yours is different?

    Also, here's the Managed Capital AP fact sheet: http://factsheets.financialexpress.net/zuri/APMGD1_HB48_ZUR.pdf. Shows 4.42% charges....

    These are all easily found on the Zurich website, here's the link: http://webfund6.financialexpress.net/clientsv21/ZurichMyStatement/Widget.aspx?Brand=zuri&viewstate=600#.

    I hope you're not paying your FA too much.....
    Last edited by OldMusicGuy; 12-01-2018 at 6:10 PM.
    • foreversummer
    • By foreversummer 12th Jan 18, 6:51 PM
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    • 357 Thanks
    foreversummer
    My wife has an old AD pension that we just found out about and there is no fee for transferring it to a SIPP. It is all in the Managed AP fund and there is a .92% charge on that fund. You can find the details on the Zurich website.

    If you invested in VLS through HL the total charge would be .67% (.45% platform plus .22% fund fee). We are thinking of just that move......
    Originally posted by OldMusicGuy
    I went by this which is the link direct from the Zurich "view your funds" website:
    http://factsheets.financialexpress.net/zuri/APMGD1_HB47_ZUR.pdf

    SEDOL number is 0406181, maybe yours is different?

    Also, here's the Managed Capital AP fact sheet: http://factsheets.financialexpress.net/zuri/APMGD1_HB48_ZUR.pdf. Shows 4.42% charges....

    These are all easily found on the Zurich website, here's the link: http://webfund6.financialexpress.net/clientsv21/ZurichMyStatement/Widget.aspx?Brand=zuri&viewstate=600#.

    I hope you're not paying your FA too much.....
    Originally posted by OldMusicGuy
    Thank you. I've no idea. I've never met this guy . . . he just appears to have popped up when Zurich wrote to tell my hubby his retirement date is nearly here!

    Thank you for the links - my SEDOL number is the same. I just don't understand what the financial adviser has sent me. It is completely at odds with this information. I will of course go back to him and ask for his explanation.

    Thank goodness for this forum!

    Foreversummer
    • ffacoffipawb
    • By ffacoffipawb 12th Jan 18, 7:52 PM
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    ffacoffipawb
    AD were a unit linked provider.
    Originally posted by dunstonh
    OK, fair enough.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 12th Jan 18, 7:53 PM
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    dunstonh
    Remember that you should never use the fund factsheet to work out the charges you are paying on an old style contract. The factsheet will always show the maximum.

    e.g. provider had a pension that used that particular fund and charged that amount. 2 years later they came out with a version 2 that brought in a bid/offer spread but reduced the annual charge. 3 years later, they decided to come out with a version 3 product that had fund based discounts. 2 years later they came out with version 4 that removed all the initial charges and changed the fund based tiers.

    All 4 of those could be using the same fund but getting different charges.
    Last edited by dunstonh; 13-01-2018 at 12:06 AM.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • foreversummer
    • By foreversummer 12th Jan 18, 8:12 PM
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    • 357 Thanks
    foreversummer
    Remember that you should never use the fund factsheet to work out the charges you are paying on an old style contract. The factsheet will always show the maximum.

    e.g. provider had a pension that used that particular fund and charged that amount. 2 years later they came out with a version 2 that brought in a bid/offer spread but reduced discounted the annual charge. 3 years later, they decided to come out with a version 3 product that had fund based discounts. 2 years later they came out with version 4 that removed all the initial charges and changed the fund based tiers.

    All 4 of those could be using the same fund but getting different charges.
    Originally posted by dunstonh
    Ok. That's a huge difference between the sheet the financial guy has sent me and the factsheet of the fund.

    I've re-read the sheet he has sent me and it seems to be, on close reading, the funds that ex-Allied Dunbar pensions are able to move to. Therefore, can I assume, that this might not be the charge that is being charged at present?
    Last edited by foreversummer; 12-01-2018 at 8:42 PM.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 13th Jan 18, 12:07 AM
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    dunstonh
    Therefore, can I assume, that this might not be the charge that is being charged at present?
    It could quite possibly be the case.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • foreversummer
    • By foreversummer 30th Jan 18, 4:29 PM
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    foreversummer
    So, now I have received the transfer packed from Zurich. I wrote to them asking what the fees were on hubby's plan. I am trying to compare it to a transfer to HL where there is simply a platform charge and a fund fee.

    Sorry if this is long-winded:

    Capital/accumulation units: 3.5% per year of the value of the capital units.
    Bid to offer spread: 5% of all payments (although he is not planning to putting any new money into this pension so presumably we can ignore this).
    Annual Management Charge: 3/4 % per year of capital unit fund.
    Expense deduction: £6.97 monthly.

    I just don't understand the fees on this plan and how they compare to HL. Any pointers would be much appreciated.

    The covering letter says "Please note that if the fund is transferred now, there will be a reduction in the capital unit holding. This is reflected in the transfer value figure quoted on the Current Value Statement". This threw me as it appears to be saying there are transfer fees. However, on the Current Value Statement the current total fund value is £19328.04 and the transfer value is £19315.36. The other former protected rights says the current transfer value of the former portected rights fund is always the same as the current fund value (5362.22).

    It says guarantees, bonuses, guaranteed minimum pension, safeguarding, life styling, block/bulk transfers, market value reduction, protected or enhance tax free case do not apply to this plan. There is no GAR or life cover.

    Foreversummer
    • Zanderman
    • By Zanderman 31st Jan 18, 2:43 PM
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    Zanderman
    Capital/accumulation units: 3.5% per year of the value of the capital units.
    Bid to offer spread: 5% of all payments (although he is not planning to putting any new money into this pension so presumably we can ignore this).
    Annual Management Charge: 3/4 % per year of capital unit fund.
    Expense deduction: £6.97 monthly.

    The covering letter says "Please note that if the fund is transferred now, there will be a reduction in the capital unit holding. This is reflected in the transfer value figure quoted on the Current Value Statement". This threw me as it appears to be saying there are transfer fees. However, on the Current Value Statement the current total fund value is £19328.04 and the transfer value is £19315.36. The other former protected rights says the current transfer value of the former portected rights fund is always the same as the current fund value (5362.22).

    It says guarantees, bonuses, guaranteed minimum pension, safeguarding, life styling, block/bulk transfers, market value reduction, protected or enhance tax free case do not apply to this plan. There is no GAR or life cover.
    Originally posted by foreversummer
    In case it's of interest (and maybe reassuring even if not much help) my old AD pension now with Zurich is very similar. Begun March 1990, not contributed to for some years, An October 2017 mailing following a request for full details gave virtually the same info as yours - same fund allocation, same breakdown of costs except monthly charge for mine is 6.88 not 6.97. Transfer value, at age 56, of a 53k pot is about 500 less than current value. But like yours the former protected rights part (17k) has no reduction for transfer.
    • caro69
    • By caro69 31st Jan 18, 2:57 PM
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    • 19 Thanks
    caro69
    Thank you Zanderman for that, seems that we have the same beast!

    Up to a year and a half ago, the transfer penalty was huge. I don't have the figures to hand but thousands of pounds and we were advised many years ago not to continue to pay into it because of the high charges.

    Unfortunately, that put us off pensions for a long time.

    The Managed AP fund appears to have done well over the past years but I think it may carry too much risk with only six years to go (hubby will retire at 66)? That's why we are considering transferring it to a SIPP now and having a larger choice of funds. The only trouble that comes with that of course is choosing the correct funds! We don't want to be too cautious and miss out on growth, nor do we want to risk too much capital. Going to have to keep reading around the boards.

    We have considered getting financial advice but I get the feeling that with such a small pot it's going to be difficult and expensive.

    Thanks again.
    Titch
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