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  • FIRST POST
    • katy123
    • By katy123 9th Jan 18, 10:57 PM
    • 248Posts
    • 7Thanks
    katy123
    Charged fees for something ebay perceives as being sold off ebay
    • #1
    • 9th Jan 18, 10:57 PM
    Charged fees for something ebay perceives as being sold off ebay 9th Jan 18 at 10:57 PM
    This was my message to a potential buyer:

    If you don't mind I would also prefer BACs payment as ebay and
    paypal charges are quite hefty for a high value item, that would really help me out!

    I listed a piano on ebay, and the buyer asked for photos and information. I asked if the buyer could pay via BACS. I then received a phone call from ebay saying that they have blocked the buyers account for 7 days because she tried to send her telephone number to me. A month later i receive an invoice for £250 as a final valuation fee.

    This had always been my intention, to complete the purchase via ebay and receive a BACS payment (payment method). I have been back and forth with ebay and they are saying that my message "suggests that the transaction can go through, but outside of the eBay site to circumvent the fees for this transaction." Here's the funny part to it, they have explicitly explained that the reference to the BACS "The payment method isn't the concern". I never wanted to transact outside of ebay, i merely asked for a BACS payment which according to ebay is permitted. They keep referring to me wanting to transact outside of ebay? The communication did not lead to a sale being taken offsite. Am i missing something?
Page 2
    • RFW
    • By RFW 10th Jan 18, 6:02 PM
    • 8,714 Posts
    • 5,075 Thanks
    RFW

    Consider reporting them to the police/action fraud, after all they are trying to charge you for a service they didn't provide.
    Originally posted by Brooker Dave
    Maybe Trading Standards might look into it if they've got a quiet week. It's hard enough to get the police to investigate a crime that has taken place. This is not a crime, it's a company chancing it's arm asking for payment for something they (wrongly) believe they are responsible for.
    .
    • bxboards
    • By bxboards 10th Jan 18, 6:21 PM
    • 1,440 Posts
    • 1,131 Thanks
    bxboards
    I don't actually think Ebay are bothered about the money they're more interested in getting rid of buyers/sellers who want to deal off Ebay. .
    Originally posted by RFW
    In my experience its almost always buyers who want to initiate off Ebay purchases - I'm sure we've all had 'will you take xx by paypal, as your fees are 10%?' type offers.

    Actually my fees are less than 2.5% (averaging 2.2%) and am TRS seller, but that does'nt stop offers to buy 'direct' (code for paying via Paypal outside Ebay), or for cash offers etc etc. They all used to gets binned and I stopped allowing buyers to send questions about 3 months ago.

    I haven't used Amazon for 2 years as they can't get close to the Ebay fees rate, but when I did, I used to get them offers there too, but not as frequenty, and I think Amazon makes it harded for buyers to even send this sort of message as you'd get contact info redacted in the message if it made it through.
    • RFW
    • By RFW 10th Jan 18, 9:22 PM
    • 8,714 Posts
    • 5,075 Thanks
    RFW

    I haven't used Amazon for 2 years as they can't get close to the Ebay fees rate, but when I did, I used to get them offers there too, but not as frequenty, and I think Amazon makes it harded for buyers to even send this sort of message as you'd get contact info redacted in the message if it made it through.
    Originally posted by bxboards
    My Ebay/Paypal and Amazon fees are fairly comparable, I suppose it depends on categories.
    I generally sell high volume/low price so there's not much scope for reductions. Having returned to sell similar stuff on Ebay I've had way more requests in a few months than a few years on Amazon. It is seller led but there must be plenty of buyers saying yes so they keep coming.
    .
    • bxboards
    • By bxboards 11th Jan 18, 8:03 AM
    • 1,440 Posts
    • 1,131 Thanks
    bxboards
    My Ebay/Paypal and Amazon fees are fairly comparable, I suppose it depends on categories.
    I generally sell high volume/low price so there's not much scope for reductions.
    Originally posted by RFW
    Completely opposite for me, low volume, high (very!) value - the Ebay fee caps really help there, as you say it depends on the category.

    But I certainly got those invitations to go off-venue - I remember reporting a message to Amazon from a buyer who wanted to pay by Paypal! The rep (overseas, poor grasp of English) kept telling me it was OK, until I had to remind the Amazon rep. that transactions could only go via Amazon checkout!
    • Brooker Dave
    • By Brooker Dave 11th Jan 18, 9:28 AM
    • 4,909 Posts
    • 3,148 Thanks
    Brooker Dave
    If you sign up to a site or service you are (generally) bound by the T&Cs.
    Originally posted by Lisbon
    But if the T&Cs are hopelessly one sided and predatory?
    "Love you Dave Brooker! x"

    "i sent a letter headded sales of god act 1979"
    • Pun
    • By Pun 11th Jan 18, 10:20 AM
    • 679 Posts
    • 566 Thanks
    Pun
    But if the T&Cs are hopelessly one sided and predatory?
    Originally posted by Brooker Dave
    If you thought that, why would you sign up?
    • Brooker Dave
    • By Brooker Dave 11th Jan 18, 10:22 AM
    • 4,909 Posts
    • 3,148 Thanks
    Brooker Dave
    If you thought that, why would you sign up?
    Originally posted by Pun
    But people don't sign up, the T&Cs are hidden behind a tick box, and change on a whim, so even if they aren't unfair to begin with, over time they end up being so.
    "Love you Dave Brooker! x"

    "i sent a letter headded sales of god act 1979"
    • Gary123456790
    • By Gary123456790 11th Jan 18, 11:14 AM
    • 514 Posts
    • 335 Thanks
    Gary123456790
    Just received an email from ebay which states

    When we believe a transaction has been completed outside of eBay, we!!!8217;ll take the following actions:
    !!!10003; On the first offence, we!!!8217;ll send a warning.
    !!!10003; Repeat violations may result in a temporary selling restriction of up to 7 days.
    !!!10003; We may charge offenders for lost fees and apply an indefinite restriction to serial offenders.

    Is this your first offence? If so i'd tell ebay they are not following their own guidelines.

    Thanks,

    Gary.
    • soolin
    • By soolin 11th Jan 18, 11:32 AM
    • 60,477 Posts
    • 43,108 Thanks
    soolin
    Just received an email from ebay which states

    When we believe a transaction has been completed outside of eBay, we’ll take the following actions:
    !!!10003; On the first offence, we’ll send a warning.
    !!!10003; Repeat violations may result in a temporary selling restriction of up to 7 days.
    !!!10003; We may charge offenders for lost fees and apply an indefinite restriction to serial offenders.

    Is this your first offence? If so i'd tell ebay they are not following their own guidelines.

    Thanks,

    Gary.
    Originally posted by Gary123456790
    I just got that one as well.
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
    New to Forum? Guide
    • katy123
    • By katy123 11th Jan 18, 6:01 PM
    • 248 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    katy123
    Just received an email from ebay which states

    When we believe a transaction has been completed outside of eBay, we’ll take the following actions:
    !!!10003; On the first offence, we’ll send a warning.
    !!!10003; Repeat violations may result in a temporary selling restriction of up to 7 days.
    !!!10003; We may charge offenders for lost fees and apply an indefinite restriction to serial offenders.

    Is this your first offence? If so i'd tell ebay they are not following their own guidelines.

    Thanks,

    Gary.
    Originally posted by Gary123456790
    At no point was the transaction completed outside of ebay.
    • bxboards
    • By bxboards 11th Jan 18, 6:29 PM
    • 1,440 Posts
    • 1,131 Thanks
    bxboards
    But if the T&Cs are hopelessly one sided and predatory?
    Originally posted by Brooker Dave
    Also worth bearing in mind that Amazon used to have a 'price parity' clause that forbid sellers 3rd party sellers on Amazon selling cheaper elsewhere.

    In the T&Cs, but completely illegal.

    So it saddens me, when folks just roll over and accept any nonsense a company wishes to put in them - especially when they are applied retrospectively.
    • soolin
    • By soolin 11th Jan 18, 6:36 PM
    • 60,477 Posts
    • 43,108 Thanks
    soolin
    At no point was the transaction completed outside of ebay.
    Originally posted by katy123
    It doesn't have to be according to their terms, it says 'When we believe a transaction has been completed outside of eBay'

    Some people have even had a warning for discussing addresses and collection 'after' the sale on ebay has occurred!
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
    New to Forum? Guide
    • bxboards
    • By bxboards 11th Jan 18, 6:40 PM
    • 1,440 Posts
    • 1,131 Thanks
    bxboards

    Some people have even had a warning for discussing addresses and collection 'after' the sale on ebay has occurred!
    Originally posted by soolin
    Yes, I am one of those people.

    I suspect ebay are using scripts to scan e-mails - ie if they find a phone number, they run a check to see if the number found is the same number as associated with your account, if so, issue warning or restriction.

    I suspect there are probably privacy implications too with this sort of bulk scanning of emails, certainly they will not be looked at by actual people.
    • Brynsam
    • By Brynsam 11th Jan 18, 11:23 PM
    • 1,161 Posts
    • 775 Thanks
    Brynsam
    At no point was the transaction completed outside of ebay.
    Originally posted by katy123
    I'm getting very confused. In one of your previous posts you have said: 'I sold the piano on gumtree. I just wanted a BACS payment, yes to bypass paypal fees.'

    If that's not 'outside ebay' I don't know what is!
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 12th Jan 18, 7:56 AM
    • 12,221 Posts
    • 8,255 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    I'm getting very confused. In one of your previous posts you have said: 'I sold the piano on gumtree. I just wanted a BACS payment, yes to bypass paypal fees.'

    If that's not 'outside ebay' I don't know what is!
    Originally posted by Brynsam
    Actually I hadn't seen that - must stop reading on a phone!

    Op if your sale on eBay didn't occur, did you open an unpaid item case or correctly cancel the sale?
    • bxboards
    • By bxboards 12th Jan 18, 8:19 AM
    • 1,440 Posts
    • 1,131 Thanks
    bxboards
    I'm getting very confused. In one of your previous posts you have said: 'I sold the piano on gumtree. I just wanted a BACS payment, yes to bypass paypal fees.'

    If that's not 'outside ebay' I don't know what is!
    Originally posted by Brynsam
    Sellers have always been able to accept other payment methods - Ebay fees are applicable regardless of this, and are separate to the Paypal's fee.

    There is nothing wrong at all with requesting an alternative payment method - and the Ebay rule change isn't about alternative payment methods.

    It's possible to have an Ebay transaction not paid for with Paypal while remaining inside Ebay - I estimate 30% of my transactions are non Paypal.

    Red herring.
    • soolin
    • By soolin 12th Jan 18, 8:33 AM
    • 60,477 Posts
    • 43,108 Thanks
    soolin
    Sellers have always been able to accept other payment methods - Ebay fees are applicable regardless of this, and are separate to the Paypal's fee.

    There is nothing wrong at all with requesting an alternative payment method - and the Ebay rule change isn't about alternative payment methods.

    It's possible to have an Ebay transaction not paid for with Paypal while remaining inside Ebay - I estimate 30% of my transactions are non Paypal.

    Red herring.
    Originally posted by bxboards
    I don't think anyone disagrees that sellers can offer other payment methods as long as paypal is shown, however, the question here is that this does not appear to be an ebay sale- OP clearly states it was sold on Gumtree.

    So the question is was it offered on ebay and actually sold on Gumtree in which case this does appear to be a clear breach of ebay terms and conditions. (yes we all know ebay own Gumtree but for sale purposes they are different entities). Obviously if seller didn't list on ebay and ONLY offered and accepted on Gumtree then it doesn't make sense- as ebay cannot claim fees on an item that never ever appeared on their listings- unless of course all the communication took place through ebay messages.

    With the latter example I often used to list one item in a set on ebay- and if people asked whether I had the rest of the set could discreetely guide them towards a different site to sell, it was always risky but nowadays that is a clear and chargeable breach.
    Last edited by soolin; 12-01-2018 at 8:37 AM.
    I'm the Board Guide for the Ebay Board , Charities Board , Dosh & Disability , Up Your Income and the Local MoneySaving-England board which means I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. However, do remember, board guides don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com
    New to Forum? Guide
    • bxboards
    • By bxboards 12th Jan 18, 8:41 AM
    • 1,440 Posts
    • 1,131 Thanks
    bxboards
    I don't think anyone disagrees that sellers can offer other payment methods as long as paypal is shown, however, the question here is that this does not appear to be an ebay sale- OP clearly states it was sold on Gumtree.

    So the question is was it offered on ebay and actually sold on Gumtree in which case this does appear to be a clear breach of ebay terms and conditions. (yes we all know ebay own Gumtree but for sale purposes they are different entities). Obviously if seller didn't list on ebay and ONLY offered and accepted on Gumtree then it doesn't make sense- as ebay cannot claim fees on an item that never ever appeared on their listings- unless of course all the communication took place through ebay messages.

    With the latter example I often used to list one item in a set on ebay- and if people asked whether I had the rest of the set could discreetely guide them towards a different site to sell, it was always risky but nowadays that is a clear and chargeable breach.
    Originally posted by soolin
    The way I read it is that this was originally offered on Ebay, the seller wanted BACS, Ebay put a kibosh on it and suspended the buyer, so the seller sold on Gumtree instead.

    Under non of those scenarios is Ebay entitled to a fee, it seems to me by suspending the buyer, Ebay sabotaged the sale effectively by restricting buyer and seller communication.

    I can see no circumstance where Ebay are entitled to a fee - 'belief' isn't enough, put simply if Ebay try to enforce this fee, they will lose.
    • Brynsam
    • By Brynsam 12th Jan 18, 9:15 AM
    • 1,161 Posts
    • 775 Thanks
    Brynsam
    It was listed during the £1 max FVF, just ebay chose to ignore that too and slap on the full FVF.
    Originally posted by katy123
    So why say 'I would also prefer BACs payment as ebay and
    paypal charges are quite hefty for a high value item' if you were only going to pay £1 FVF?
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 12th Jan 18, 9:20 AM
    • 12,221 Posts
    • 8,255 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    The way I read it is that this was originally offered on Ebay, the seller wanted BACS, Ebay put a kibosh on it and suspended the buyer, so the seller sold on Gumtree instead.
    Originally posted by bxboards
    Yes, I think we all read it like that. What we need from the OP is how she/he closed the first sale, the one on eBay. Did she NPB or cancel. Perhaps she did nothing and got the FVF as she should, but also got the warning.

    In the OP it sounds like the buyer was restricted, not suspended. That wouldn't cancel the sale.

    I then received a phone call from ebay saying that they have blocked the buyers account for 7 days because she tried to send her telephone number to me
    Last edited by theonlywayisup; 12-01-2018 at 9:22 AM.
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