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  • FIRST POST
    • skayes
    • By skayes 9th Jan 18, 10:04 PM
    • 16Posts
    • 8Thanks
    skayes
    Amazon refusing a refund over 'no signature'
    • #1
    • 9th Jan 18, 10:04 PM
    Amazon refusing a refund over 'no signature' 9th Jan 18 at 10:04 PM
    Hi,
    I need some help with a refund at Amazon UK. I bought an expensive book (120) a couple of months ago and it arrived damaged from poor packaging. To cut the story short, I sent it back after informing Amazon of the issue. Since it was a marketplace item and from an overseas seller they never sent a returns label and I had to send it back using Royal Mail's International Signed and Tracked service, which cost me more than 20. After waiting some time, during which I never heard from the seller nor received a refund, I decided not to say anything to them and went straight to Amazon to file an A-Z claim.

    They asked me for proof of signed delivery. I used the tracking number to get to Royal Mail's confirmation of delivery page, and sent them a copy (and also sent a copy of the certificate of posting), but since that page shows no signature, Amazon have denied the refund.

    I'm very angry, because I did everything to the letter and just because they see no signature I'm 140 out of pocket through no fault of my own. Any suggestions on what I should do, if anyone has had a similar problem?
    Last edited by skayes; 09-01-2018 at 10:37 PM.
Page 2
    • bazzyb
    • By bazzyb 11th Jan 18, 2:57 PM
    • 1,195 Posts
    • 3,276 Thanks
    bazzyb
    RM have provided proof of delivery.
    Originally posted by custardy
    They haven't. That's the whole point. It's a signed for item, the only proof would be the signature, that is what they are trying to get. I'm sure you will disagree regardless but just saying an item has been signed for means nothing unless there is a copy of said signature.
    • custardy
    • By custardy 11th Jan 18, 3:39 PM
    • 33,566 Posts
    • 28,514 Thanks
    custardy
    They haven't. That's the whole point. It's a signed for item, the only proof would be the signature, that is what they are trying to get. I'm sure you will disagree regardless but just saying an item has been signed for means nothing unless there is a copy of said signature.
    Originally posted by bazzyb
    Well we shall just have to disagree on your interpretation of delivered, and the service as per its T&Cs.
    • SuperHan
    • By SuperHan 11th Jan 18, 8:07 PM
    • 2,076 Posts
    • 1,233 Thanks
    SuperHan
    RM have provided proof of delivery. I dont see you having much luck with a claim Im afraid.
    Originally posted by custardy

    I disagree.


    If you advertise a service as "Tracked & Signed is a combination service offering full end-to-end tracking, signature on delivery and an online delivery confirmation" and the recipient claims they haven't received it, then I think it's on RM to prove it's been delivered.


    If they haven't provided a signature (although I agree providing the signature is not part of the service) then how can they prove they have delivered it? They can't just say "we delivered it but we're not sharing any evidence of that with you".
    • skayes
    • By skayes 11th Jan 18, 9:44 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    skayes
    elsien, thanks for the link - I'll look into it.

    RM have provided proof of delivery. I dont see you having much luck with a claim Im afraid.
    custardy, I appreciate what you're saying - however, in line with what SuperHan and bazzyb have just said, RM do say on their own website that all signed-for deliveries (including international) are not handed over until it a signature is obtained. Here is how they word it:

    "A signature is taken on delivery for items sent using International Tracked & Signed and International Signed. However, we do not provide a copy of the signature to you as part of the service and it is not available to view online."

    So RM claim they always collect a signature but don't go out of the way to upload it in their online tracking. Really what I'm hoping to achieve is to get RM to dig up said signature in my case (even if it was collected via the foreign post office).
    Last edited by skayes; 11-01-2018 at 9:58 PM. Reason: New post appeared while I was writing mine.
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 11th Jan 18, 9:50 PM
    • 12,221 Posts
    • 8,255 Thanks
    theonlywayisup

    Custardy, I appreciate what you're saying - however, in line with what SuperHan has just said, RM do say on their own website that all signed-for deliveries (including international) are not handed over until it a signature is obtained.
    Originally posted by skayes
    On that same page, RM state:

    Signature on delivery
    A signature is taken on delivery for items sent using International Tracked & Signed and International Signed. However, we do not provide a copy of the signature to you as part of the service and it is not available to view online.
    • SuperHan
    • By SuperHan 11th Jan 18, 10:05 PM
    • 2,076 Posts
    • 1,233 Thanks
    SuperHan
    On that same page, RM state:

    Signature on delivery
    A signature is taken on delivery for items sent using International Tracked & Signed and International Signed. However, we do not provide a copy of the signature to you as part of the service and it is not available to view online.
    Originally posted by theonlywayisup
    Absolutely, as a matter of course that isn't the case.

    However they can't say they have proof it has been delivered and not share it when the recipient says they haven't received it. Balance of probabilities would likely fall in the favour of the OP in that case.
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 11th Jan 18, 10:11 PM
    • 12,221 Posts
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    theonlywayisup
    Absolutely, as a matter of course that isn't the case.

    However they can't say they have proof it has been delivered and not share it when the recipient says they haven't received it. Balance of probabilities would likely fall in the favour of the OP in that case.
    Originally posted by SuperHan
    Balance of probabilities isn't something RM deal in. They state their T&C on the very page quoted above. You can't pick and chose the T&C to suit!

    I am not saying I agree with their service, but it isn't unclear, it is very clear. They don't give a signature as part of the service.

    Proof of delivery happens every single day in every single country and it happens without signature. POD is sufficient. A signature, as they agree themselves, isn't.
    • skayes
    • By skayes 11th Jan 18, 10:49 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    skayes
    theonlywayisup, you quoted the same part of RM's page as I did but for the opposite reason to mine.

    I think it's a matter of what 'as part of the service' means. Of course, since I've lost both the money and the book, I have to at least try.

    Thanks *so* much to you all for your advice. I don't know how long it'll take for me to hear anything from the foreign post office, and what will happen after that, but I owe it to you to let you know the outcome whatever happens. So I will definitely do that.
    • theonlywayisup
    • By theonlywayisup 11th Jan 18, 10:53 PM
    • 12,221 Posts
    • 8,255 Thanks
    theonlywayisup
    theonlywayisup, you quoted the same part of RM's page as I did but for the opposite reason to mine.

    I think it's a matter of what 'as part of the service' means. Of course, since I've lost both the money and the book, I have to at least try.

    Thanks *so* much to you all for your advice. I don't know how long it'll take for me to hear anything from the foreign post office, and what will happen after that, but I owe it to you to let you know the outcome whatever happens. So I will definitely do that.
    Originally posted by skayes
    I did quote it but to point out to another poster their "selective reading".

    The service doesn't guarantee a signature but hopefully you will get what you need. Updating this thread will be helpful, not only to those reading but to anyone finding themselves in a similar situation in the future.

    Good luck.
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 12th Jan 18, 9:32 AM
    • 4,399 Posts
    • 4,434 Thanks
    DoaM
    I did quote it but to point out to another poster their "selective reading".

    The service doesn't guarantee a signature
    Originally posted by theonlywayisup
    Erm .. it DOES guarantee a signature (based on what's quoted in this thread). It only doesn't guarantee to share it with the service purchaser.
    Diary of a madman
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    • skayes
    • By skayes 20th Apr 18, 9:59 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    skayes
    Amazon refusing a refund - Update
    I know this is coming very late but I promised I'd be back with an update, and better late than never!

    And I can now confirm ... I got my money back.

    To keep it short, the foreign post office was an absolute star and they sent me a copy of the signature by email. After failing a few times to get Amazon to even look at my additional supporting evidence, I very nearly went ahead with the suggestion to issue a chargeback from my bank. At the last minute I thought I'd try one more time to contact the Marketplace seller at Amazon. I sent the proof of postage including the signature and requested that they refund me. And they were good enough to refund me within 24 hours.

    Thanks again to everyone who shared their thoughts and advice!
    • Money maker
    • By Money maker 20th Apr 18, 10:20 PM
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    • 11,399 Thanks
    Money maker
    Thanks for the update.
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