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  • FIRST POST
    • Kitty4kits
    • By Kitty4kits 9th Jan 18, 9:47 PM
    • 6Posts
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    Kitty4kits
    6 weeks sick, employed, no pay??
    • #1
    • 9th Jan 18, 9:47 PM
    6 weeks sick, employed, no pay?? 9th Jan 18 at 9:47 PM
    Just spoke to my sister who has been very ill and was signed off work for 6 weeks by her GP. She works 16 hours PW in retail.

    She's gone back to work but is still not well and I told her to get signed off again but she said she can't as she's had no income for 6 weeks. She received zilch the whole time.

    I told her she is entitled to SSP surely? But she didn't know and her employer sorted nothing out at all.

    She has been employed over a year, she earns over the 113 a week and she gave them a sick note

    Shouldn't she have gotten SSP?

    Can she claim it still from the 6 weeks?
    Should her work have sorted this or is it her responsibility?

    Any advice is welcome.
    Especially with her rights going forwards as she is still poorly.

    Many thanks.
Page 1
    • PersianCatLady
    • By PersianCatLady 9th Jan 18, 10:11 PM
    • 456 Posts
    • 412 Thanks
    PersianCatLady
    • #2
    • 9th Jan 18, 10:11 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Jan 18, 10:11 PM
    What has her employer said about it??

    I would have expected them to do it automatically but I would get her to put it in writing and give it to them ASAP.

    Here is a useful link with some basic information -
    https://www.gov.uk/statutory-sick-pay

    Good luck
    • Kitty4kits
    • By Kitty4kits 10th Jan 18, 12:05 AM
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    Kitty4kits
    • #3
    • 10th Jan 18, 12:05 AM
    • #3
    • 10th Jan 18, 12:05 AM
    They haven't said anything to her.

    She had her back to work meeting today and the didn't mention sick pay at all.

    She didn't realise she was entitled to it.
    • Manxman in exile
    • By Manxman in exile 10th Jan 18, 12:40 AM
    • 1,475 Posts
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    Manxman in exile
    • #4
    • 10th Jan 18, 12:40 AM
    • #4
    • 10th Jan 18, 12:40 AM
    What sort of "retail" is this?


    Is she sure she hasn't been paid (check bank statements) or is this "cash in hand"?
    • stuartJo1989
    • By stuartJo1989 10th Jan 18, 3:09 AM
    • 446 Posts
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    stuartJo1989
    • #5
    • 10th Jan 18, 3:09 AM
    • #5
    • 10th Jan 18, 3:09 AM
    She works 16 hours PW in retail.

    she earns over the 113 a week
    Originally posted by Kitty4kits
    May I enquire about two points?

    1. Does your partner have any break allowance within those 16 hours? (2x 8 hour shifts in my workplace would accrue 2x 1 hour breaks)

    2. Is your partner on minimum wage?

    I ask as there is a scenario whereby your partner is on min wage AND they only get paid 15 (or less) hours per week whereby they do not exceed the 113 SSP threshold.

    Example:

    16 hours and 1 hour break (let's say 2x 8 hour shifts and a 30min break per shift) = 15 hours paid @ min wage (7.50)

    P/week = 112.50 (not enough to qualify for SSP)
    • seashore22
    • By seashore22 10th Jan 18, 3:58 AM
    • 1,032 Posts
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    seashore22
    • #6
    • 10th Jan 18, 3:58 AM
    • #6
    • 10th Jan 18, 3:58 AM
    May I enquire about two points?

    1. Does your partner have any break allowance within those 16 hours? (2x 8 hour shifts in my workplace would accrue 2x 1 hour breaks)

    2. Is your partner on minimum wage?

    I ask as there is a scenario whereby your partner is on min wage AND they only get paid 15 (or less) hours per week whereby they do not exceed the 113 SSP threshold.

    Example:

    16 hours and 1 hour break (let's say 2x 8 hour shifts and a 30min break per shift) = 15 hours paid @ min wage (7.50)

    P/week = 112.50 (not enough to qualify for SSP)
    Originally posted by stuartJo1989
    You mean sister.
    • chrisbur
    • By chrisbur 10th Jan 18, 9:01 AM
    • 2,924 Posts
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    chrisbur
    • #7
    • 10th Jan 18, 9:01 AM
    • #7
    • 10th Jan 18, 9:01 AM
    There are other possibilities for SSP not being paid but either it is paid or the employee should be advised it is not being paid either an SSP1 form or letter. Whatever the reason for non-payment they are entitled to a written explanation, which they can then refer to HMRC if they disagree.

    Having said that sometimes things go wrong, fit notes get lost between departments etc so first course of action needs to be query with payroll.
    • stuartJo1989
    • By stuartJo1989 10th Jan 18, 1:24 PM
    • 446 Posts
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    stuartJo1989
    • #8
    • 10th Jan 18, 1:24 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Jan 18, 1:24 PM
    You mean sister.
    Originally posted by seashore22
    Thanks for your insight
    • PersianCatLady
    • By PersianCatLady 10th Jan 18, 3:16 PM
    • 456 Posts
    • 412 Thanks
    PersianCatLady
    • #9
    • 10th Jan 18, 3:16 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Jan 18, 3:16 PM
    May I enquire about two points?

    1. Does your partner have any break allowance within those 16 hours? (2x 8 hour shifts in my workplace would accrue 2x 1 hour breaks)

    2. Is your partner on minimum wage?

    I ask as there is a scenario whereby your partner is on min wage AND they only get paid 15 (or less) hours per week whereby they do not exceed the 113 SSP threshold.

    Example:

    16 hours and 1 hour break (let's say 2x 8 hour shifts and a 30min break per shift) = 15 hours paid @ min wage (7.50)

    P/week = 112.50 (not enough to qualify for SSP)
    Originally posted by stuartJo1989
    The OP did say that her sister gets paid over 113 a week so I don't know if your post is relevant to her.

    However, you raise a very valid point there about the actual hours worked after deducting lunch breaks.

    I would not be surprised if there are lots of people who are shafted like this by employers in the UK.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 10th Jan 18, 3:31 PM
    • 5,017 Posts
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    TELLIT01
    If there is no entitlement to SSP the employer has to complete a form SSP1 to explain why. The OP's sister would then be able to make a claim for ESA.
    Despite the fact that she has now returned to work she can still make a backdated claim for ESA but will need the SSP1 and the medical certificate in order to do so. She needs to act fairly quickly as claims can only be backdated 13 weeks apart from exceptional circumstances.
    • stuartJo1989
    • By stuartJo1989 10th Jan 18, 4:51 PM
    • 446 Posts
    • 476 Thanks
    stuartJo1989
    The OP did say that her sister gets paid over 113 a week so I don't know if your post is relevant to her..
    Originally posted by PersianCatLady
    True, but it would be interesting to know exact numbers.

    Could be that OP is taking a monthly figure (say 455) and dividing it by 4, as there are roughly 4 weeks in a month. Weekly wage done this way is 113.5 but there are usually 30 days in a month, and a pattern of 2x 8 hour shifts per week could look like:

    xxxxx88 xxxxx88 xxxxx88 xxxxx88 xx
    (30 day month)

    That's 8x8hour shifts, or 64 hours in the month (not even including breaks!). Multiply by 7.50 = 480 and then divide by (30/7) 4.2857 weeks per month to get 112 per week. Not enough to qualify for SSP.
    • Kitty4kits
    • By Kitty4kits 10th Jan 18, 6:09 PM
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    Kitty4kits
    She works 16 hours at 8ph
    With 30 min break deducted.

    So she would get 120 pw after?
    • stuartJo1989
    • By stuartJo1989 10th Jan 18, 7:25 PM
    • 446 Posts
    • 476 Thanks
    stuartJo1989
    She works 16 hours at 8ph
    With 30 min break deducted.

    So she would get 120 pw after?
    Originally posted by Kitty4kits
    You see, I don't actually know how they officially work it out BUT you've effectively said "480 a month divided by 4 weeks per month = 120"

    That's not mathematically correct, as most months have 30 (or more) days in them.

    30/7 = 4.286 weeks in a month.

    If you divide 480 by 4.286 then you get 112, which makes you ineligible for SSP.

    So yea, they might actually be correct here..... JUST ABOUT!
    • t0rt0ise
    • By t0rt0ise 10th Jan 18, 8:51 PM
    • 3,020 Posts
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    t0rt0ise
    You see, I don't actually know how they officially work it out BUT you've effectively said "480 a month divided by 4 weeks per month = 120"
    Originally posted by stuartJo1989
    What she said was that she's paid for 15 hours per week at 8 per hour which is 120. She said nothing about monthly pay at all.
    • stuartJo1989
    • By stuartJo1989 10th Jan 18, 9:08 PM
    • 446 Posts
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    stuartJo1989
    What she said was that she's paid for 15 hours per week at 8 per hour which is 120. She said nothing about monthly pay at all.
    Originally posted by t0rt0ise
    Let me ask you a question, how many weeks are there in a month?
    • PersianCatLady
    • By PersianCatLady 10th Jan 18, 10:39 PM
    • 456 Posts
    • 412 Thanks
    PersianCatLady
    Let me ask you a question, how many weeks are there in a month?
    Originally posted by stuartJo1989
    The answer varies depending on the month but most people would probably say four weeks.

    So, most people would say 120 a week is the same as 480 a month.

    I would say that 120 x 52 weeks = 6,420 per year

    6,420 / 12 = 520 a month.
    • stuartJo1989
    • By stuartJo1989 10th Jan 18, 11:50 PM
    • 446 Posts
    • 476 Thanks
    stuartJo1989
    The answer varies depending on the month but most people would probably say four weeks.
    Originally posted by PersianCatLady
    Aye, but if you say "four weeks" then 4 weeks x 12 months = 48 weeks which doesn't add up

    So, most people would say 120 a week is the same as 480 a month.
    Indeed! But it isn't because of the missing 4 weeks!

    I would say that 120 x 52 weeks = 6,420 per year

    6,420 / 12 = 520 a month.
    Yep!

    And by the same token, if OP is getting 480 a month then they earn 5,760 a year and divide that by 52 = 110 per week.

    It is hard to conclude whether OP has met the threshold or not here, but there are quite a few scenarios whereby OP ISN'T entitled to it...
    Last edited by stuartJo1989; 10-01-2018 at 11:52 PM.
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 11th Jan 18, 1:38 AM
    • 38,621 Posts
    • 35,350 Thanks
    Savvy_Sue
    We can go round in circles trying to establish whether or not the OP's sister pays enough NI to get sick pay, but the fact remains that an employer must either pay SSP after the first three days, OR give written notification of why the employee isn't entitled to it.

    PersianCatLady gave a link, and TellIt explains what to do if the employer says 'no entitlement'.
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    • PersianCatLady
    • By PersianCatLady 11th Jan 18, 5:19 AM
    • 456 Posts
    • 412 Thanks
    PersianCatLady
    Aye, but if you say "four weeks" then 4 weeks x 12 months = 48 weeks which doesn't add up



    Indeed! But it isn't because of the missing 4 weeks!



    Yep!

    And by the same token, if OP is getting 480 a month then they earn 5,760 a year and divide that by 52 = 110 per week.

    It is hard to conclude whether OP has met the threshold or not here, but there are quite a few scenarios whereby OP ISN'T entitled to it...
    Originally posted by stuartJo1989
    Just to clarify, I was not including myself when I said that most people would say that there are four weeks in a month.

    I knew exactly what you were getting at in your post, I had to explain this to someone the other day who really couldn't grasp it at all.

    She didn't understand why her 4 weekly LHA payment was not the same as the rent (In PCM). Her full rent iwill be paid by LHA but I just know that she is really going to struggle with the figures involved.

    TBH, some people find managing their finances hard enough already.
    • stuartJo1989
    • By stuartJo1989 11th Jan 18, 11:52 AM
    • 446 Posts
    • 476 Thanks
    stuartJo1989
    Just to clarify, I was not including myself when I said that most people would say that there are four weeks in a month.

    I knew exactly what you were getting at in your post, I had to explain this to someone the other day who really couldn't grasp it at all.

    She didn't understand why her 4 weekly LHA payment was not the same as the rent (In PCM). Her full rent iwill be paid by LHA but I just know that she is really going to struggle with the figures involved.

    TBH, some people find managing their finances hard enough already.
    Originally posted by PersianCatLady
    Oh yea, I knew that you knew
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