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  • FIRST POST
    • jblakes
    • By jblakes 9th Jan 18, 12:10 AM
    • 72Posts
    • 7Thanks
    jblakes
    Halifax shares help
    • #1
    • 9th Jan 18, 12:10 AM
    Halifax shares help 9th Jan 18 at 12:10 AM
    Evening Gents

    I forgot i had a silly 500 bet if you like back in 2011, i brought 28,968 shares at 1.68p, i forgot about these till now.

    I checked tonight and i have now only got 1448 shares, something called corporate action happened in july 2017, thats when these changes happen.

    So the price today is 3.68p, so which the original share i brought, it should be worth just over 1k, but its actually worth (1448 x 3.68) =53 ish pound.

    Can somebody tell me how, why, and if they can do that?

    kind regards
    James
Page 1
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 9th Jan 18, 2:11 AM
    • 2,226 Posts
    • 1,509 Thanks
    Tom99
    • #2
    • 9th Jan 18, 2:11 AM
    • #2
    • 9th Jan 18, 2:11 AM
    Which companys shares did you buy and are you sure the current price is not 3.68?
    • PeacefulWaters
    • By PeacefulWaters 9th Jan 18, 3:38 AM
    • 8,318 Posts
    • 10,655 Thanks
    PeacefulWaters
    • #3
    • 9th Jan 18, 3:38 AM
    • #3
    • 9th Jan 18, 3:38 AM
    Halifax/HBOS/LBG shares have never traded at those levels.

    So which company is it?

    Regardless, you've probably gone through a corporate action where every twenty shares has been replaced by a single share worth, at the time, twenty times the value of the old share. Alas, this has subsequently coincided with the overall value of the company plummeting.
    • redux
    • By redux 9th Jan 18, 4:06 AM
    • 18,208 Posts
    • 24,085 Thanks
    redux
    • #4
    • 9th Jan 18, 4:06 AM
    • #4
    • 9th Jan 18, 4:06 AM
    Sometimes companies with rising values split their shares and issue 2 to 5 or 10 new ones for each old one, with a corresponding change in price.

    This appears to be the reverse, like a consolidation

    28968 / 20 = 1448.4
    • Morphoton
    • By Morphoton 9th Jan 18, 11:20 AM
    • 83 Posts
    • 70 Thanks
    Morphoton
    • #5
    • 9th Jan 18, 11:20 AM
    • #5
    • 9th Jan 18, 11:20 AM
    The link below is to a 2-page PDF which details the full share history of the Halifax including rights issues and corporate changes.
    Halifax was taken over by Bank of Scotland and became HBOS in Sep 2001.
    HBOS was taken over by Lloyds in Jan 2009.
    You would have been unable to buy Halifax shares in 2011.
    Link:
    https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.lloydsbankinggroup.com/globalassets/documents/investors/2016/lbg_share_history_22dec2016.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwiumM3k3 srYAhWFmbQKHesrATwQFgg1MAM&usg=AOvVaw0oFpfkQAFc4Nz I7zYJvRyZ
    • jblakes
    • By jblakes 9th Jan 18, 12:52 PM
    • 72 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    jblakes
    • #6
    • 9th Jan 18, 12:52 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Jan 18, 12:52 PM
    sorry, i shouldnt have put halifax shares as title. It was through there shares account. Company was solo oil, brought back in 2012 at 1.68, then dropped to around 0.25 lol. The corporate action was july17 shares still around 0.25, then jumped to 3.5ish.

    Is this normal? i thought i buy a share and its mine forever to do what i want with it?

    regards
    James
    • Tom99
    • By Tom99 9th Jan 18, 1:14 PM
    • 2,226 Posts
    • 1,509 Thanks
    Tom99
    • #7
    • 9th Jan 18, 1:14 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Jan 18, 1:14 PM
    The shares tripled in price in early 2011 so you must have bought at almost the highest point and they have since fallen in value by 90% hence your 500 is now worth 50.
    • jblakes
    • By jblakes 9th Jan 18, 1:19 PM
    • 72 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    jblakes
    • #8
    • 9th Jan 18, 1:19 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Jan 18, 1:19 PM
    yes but what i dont understand is i brought them at 1.68p and now they are 3.8ish p, so should have gone up not down?
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 9th Jan 18, 1:25 PM
    • 7,418 Posts
    • 7,987 Thanks
    eskbanker
    • #9
    • 9th Jan 18, 1:25 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Jan 18, 1:25 PM
    sorry, i shouldnt have put halifax shares as title. It was through there shares account. Company was solo oil, brought back in 2012 at 1.68, then dropped to around 0.25 lol. The corporate action was july17 shares still around 0.25, then jumped to 3.5ish.

    Is this normal? i thought i buy a share and its mine forever to do what i want with it?

    regards
    James
    Originally posted by jblakes
    The July 2017 consolidation meant that for every 20 shares you held on 24 July @ 0.24p were exchanged for one replacement share valued at 5.38p on 25 July (figures from http://www.solooil.co.uk/investors/share-price-centre.aspx).

    So the corporate action itself actually increased the total value of your holding versus the day before, but you'd already lost 85% before then, and since then it's dropped a bit more.

    Companies are quite entitled to undertake such actions, which do indeed change the volumes (and values) of shares held by investors, which is why as a shareholder you'd have been notified of the AGM resolution to implement this, and could have attended and voted against if you felt strongly (wouldn't have changed the result though!).
    • jblakes
    • By jblakes 9th Jan 18, 1:30 PM
    • 72 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    jblakes
    thats a load of poo then, so a company can screw ppl then? If they swap all the shares from what ppl have for whatever the price is, then next day they triple, they have won and cost ppl money.
    • jimjames
    • By jimjames 9th Jan 18, 1:33 PM
    • 12,646 Posts
    • 11,312 Thanks
    jimjames
    thats a load of poo then, so a company can screw ppl then? If they swap all the shares from what ppl have for whatever the price is, then next day they triple, they have won and cost ppl money.
    Originally posted by jblakes
    No they don't. Read the explanation again. I'd really recommend learning a bit more about shares and the risks involved before you start trading like that to avoid losing money. On the plus side at least your "silly bet" was only 500
    Remember the saying: if it looks too good to be true it almost certainly is.
    • PeacefulWaters
    • By PeacefulWaters 9th Jan 18, 1:34 PM
    • 8,318 Posts
    • 10,655 Thanks
    PeacefulWaters
    thats a load of poo then, so a company can screw ppl then? If they swap all the shares from what ppl have for whatever the price is, then next day they triple, they have won and cost ppl money.
    Originally posted by jblakes
    Not the case.

    The firm is just worth naff all compared to its value when you bought in.

    The fannying around over shares in issue etc should have no material effect on the value of your holding. Other factors do that.

    You bought a dog. End of story.
    • jblakes
    • By jblakes 9th Jan 18, 1:41 PM
    • 72 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    jblakes
    Don't have to be an !!!! about it. I just didnt know that when I brought the 29k shares they could just change that to the value its worth now. I understand that they are worth the same just means they can screw people over in the long run.
    • msallen
    • By msallen 9th Jan 18, 1:50 PM
    • 840 Posts
    • 922 Thanks
    msallen
    thats a load of poo then, so a company can screw ppl then? If they swap all the shares from what ppl have for whatever the price is, then next day they triple, they have won and cost ppl money.
    Originally posted by jblakes
    Did you not bother to read what eskbanker said?

    One (old) share was worth 0.24p on 24/7.
    Replacement shares were issued at a ration of 1:20, so for every twenty old shares you got one new one, worth nominally 20 times as much per share. 20 x 0.24p = 4.8p

    The market seemed to like this and the price rose to 5.38p the foillowing day.

    There are a myriad of reasons not to "invest" in standalone penny shares, but even if there weren't it is still important to understand what a share actually is before buying one. - If I decide to float my company worth 100 and issue 100 shares, then they are worth 1 each. If I then reissue 1 new share for every 2 old ones, then assuming the company value is unchanged there are now 50 shares worth 2 each.
    • ColdIron
    • By ColdIron 9th Jan 18, 1:55 PM
    • 4,254 Posts
    • 5,383 Thanks
    ColdIron
    I just didnt know that when I brought the 29k shares they could just change that to the value its worth now. I understand that they are worth the same just means they can screw people over in the long run.
    Originally posted by jblakes
    If you had eight half pints worth two quid each and someone swapped them for four pints worth four quid each would you say you had been screwed?
    • jblakes
    • By jblakes 9th Jan 18, 1:56 PM
    • 72 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    jblakes
    yes i do get what you are saying. I was young and daft at the time. Not had another go on shares, maybe one day.

    I just assuned i apurchased x number of shares and that number stayed the same no mater if the value went up or down.
    • coyrls
    • By coyrls 9th Jan 18, 3:23 PM
    • 992 Posts
    • 1,043 Thanks
    coyrls
    But the value of each share went up because the number of shares were reduced. If the number of shares had stayed the same, the value of each share would have stayed the same.
    • PeacefulWaters
    • By PeacefulWaters 9th Jan 18, 4:11 PM
    • 8,318 Posts
    • 10,655 Thanks
    PeacefulWaters
    Don't have to be an !!!! about it.
    Originally posted by jblakes
    I'm not being.

    I just didnt know that when I brought the 29k shares they could just change that to the value its worth now.
    The value of shares can go down as well as up. Always been the case.

    I understand that they are worth the same just means they can screw people over in the long run.
    No it doesn't. Get a grip on yourself. If they hadn't done the 20/1 share change thing your shares would still have the same disappointing total value today.
    • eskbanker
    • By eskbanker 9th Jan 18, 7:51 PM
    • 7,418 Posts
    • 7,987 Thanks
    eskbanker
    If you had eight half pints worth two quid each and someone swapped them for four pints worth four quid each would you say you had been screwed?
    Originally posted by ColdIron
    I rather suspect that OP would aggressively confront whoever had swapped them over and angrily demand 'did you spill my pint?'
    • thor
    • By thor 10th Jan 18, 1:06 AM
    • 5,249 Posts
    • 1,883 Thanks
    thor
    It's as Peacefulwaters has said The value of shares can go down as well as up. Unfortunately most people read this but don't really take it in.
    The op should realise there is nothing stopping the total loss of such investments. In the long run you can still lose.
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