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  • FIRST POST
    • FTBorNotFTB
    • By FTBorNotFTB 8th Jan 18, 12:24 PM
    • 1Posts
    • 0Thanks
    FTBorNotFTB
    How does HMRC know I'm a FTB?
    • #1
    • 8th Jan 18, 12:24 PM
    How does HMRC know I'm a FTB? 8th Jan 18 at 12:24 PM
    I'm looking to purchase a property.

    I have previously owned property, but this was sold back in 2010. I have rented ever since.

    All mortgage information has been removed from my credit reports for over 2 years.

    How does HMRC know that I once owned a property in 2010? If the credit reports are clear of this information, can I sneak through an FTB SDLT discount application?
Page 1
    • BoGoF
    • By BoGoF 8th Jan 18, 12:26 PM
    • 3,205 Posts
    • 2,523 Thanks
    BoGoF
    • #2
    • 8th Jan 18, 12:26 PM
    • #2
    • 8th Jan 18, 12:26 PM
    Do you think the land registry information suddenly vanishes too?


    And what you are proposing is fraud.
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 8th Jan 18, 12:28 PM
    • 7,827 Posts
    • 8,000 Thanks
    davidmcn
    • #3
    • 8th Jan 18, 12:28 PM
    • #3
    • 8th Jan 18, 12:28 PM
    For starters, the SDLT return submitted by your purchaser in 2010 will have had your details. If you bought under the SDLT regime then your own return too. The Land Registry will have your details. And so on.
    • theartfullodger
    • By theartfullodger 8th Jan 18, 12:30 PM
    • 9,586 Posts
    • 12,899 Thanks
    theartfullodger
    • #4
    • 8th Jan 18, 12:30 PM
    • #4
    • 8th Jan 18, 12:30 PM
    What happened to those fundamental British traditions of decency & fair-play?
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 8th Jan 18, 12:55 PM
    • 25,194 Posts
    • 68,801 Thanks
    Doozergirl
    • #5
    • 8th Jan 18, 12:55 PM
    • #5
    • 8th Jan 18, 12:55 PM
    You put your NI Number on the SDLT form, if I recall correctly.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 8th Jan 18, 12:56 PM
    • 5,899 Posts
    • 12,507 Thanks
    marliepanda
    • #6
    • 8th Jan 18, 12:56 PM
    • #6
    • 8th Jan 18, 12:56 PM
    Have you really never heard of 'records'?
    • G_M
    • By G_M 8th Jan 18, 6:42 PM
    • 44,409 Posts
    • 52,710 Thanks
    G_M
    • #7
    • 8th Jan 18, 6:42 PM
    • #7
    • 8th Jan 18, 6:42 PM
    How do the police know I drove at 80 mph?

    How does the VAT man know my roofer got paid for fixing my roof?

    How does the bank know that £500 I paid in was not drugs income?

    In some cases it's records, files, cameras etc, in other cases it's self-certification which relies on honesty or fear of being done for fraud.
    • kinger101
    • By kinger101 8th Jan 18, 6:53 PM
    • 4,277 Posts
    • 5,834 Thanks
    kinger101
    • #8
    • 8th Jan 18, 6:53 PM
    • #8
    • 8th Jan 18, 6:53 PM
    Your solicitor likely entered your NI number on the SDLT return (as it's required for the lead purchaser). You might well get free board and lodgings from Her Majesty's government if HMRC found out. Theft is a criminal offence.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 8th Jan 18, 6:56 PM
    • 44,409 Posts
    • 52,710 Thanks
    G_M
    • #9
    • 8th Jan 18, 6:56 PM
    • #9
    • 8th Jan 18, 6:56 PM
    Your solicitor likely entered your NI number on the SDLT return (as it's required for the lead purchaser). You might well get free board and lodgings from Her Majesty's government if HMRC found out. Theft is a criminal offence.
    Originally posted by kinger101
    Not sure it's theft, but that's a whole different argument...
    • 00ec25
    • By 00ec25 8th Jan 18, 6:57 PM
    • 6,507 Posts
    • 6,060 Thanks
    00ec25
    can I sneak through an FTB SDLT discount application?
    Originally posted by FTBorNotFTB
    please do try, the country needs the extra money from the fines you will be charged with for fraud.

    However, when questioned, please immediately hold your hands up to it as we do not want to increase the prison population housed at taxpayer expense through being done for deliberate concealment

    NI NUMBER
    • HampshireH
    • By HampshireH 8th Jan 18, 7:38 PM
    • 700 Posts
    • 745 Thanks
    HampshireH
    This is a wind up surely
    • Davesnave
    • By Davesnave 8th Jan 18, 9:29 PM
    • 25,299 Posts
    • 93,037 Thanks
    Davesnave
    This is a wind up surely
    Originally posted by HampshireH
    Many people believe that HMRC only keep records going back 6 years, so its surely reasonable question to pose?
    If you are finding huge gaps between your paragraphs and use Firefox, MSE know about the problem. However, they aren't necessarily doing anything about it yet....
    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5844460
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 8th Jan 18, 10:09 PM
    • 20,326 Posts
    • 16,083 Thanks
    agrinnall
    Many people believe that HMRC only keep records going back 6 years, so its surely reasonable question to pose?
    Originally posted by Davesnave
    I suspect they keep some records for much longer. But even if they didn't, we know that the Land Registry has records (admittedly incomplete) going back much, much longer.
    • kinger101
    • By kinger101 9th Jan 18, 12:21 AM
    • 4,277 Posts
    • 5,834 Thanks
    kinger101
    Not sure it's theft, but that's a whole different argument...
    Originally posted by G_M
    https://www.lexisnexis.com/uk/lexispsl/corporatecrime/document/391421/55KB-9471-F188-N1BB-00000-00/Tax%20evasion%20offences%E2%80%94overview
    • kinger101
    • By kinger101 9th Jan 18, 12:27 AM
    • 4,277 Posts
    • 5,834 Thanks
    kinger101
    I suspect they keep some records for much longer. But even if they didn't, we know that the Land Registry has records (admittedly incomplete) going back much, much longer.
    Originally posted by agrinnall
    The six year limit is more to do with the TMA, and it does not apply where evasion has occurred.
    • ileven1225
    • By ileven1225 9th Jan 18, 7:59 AM
    • 43 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    ileven1225
    I totally don!!!8217;t agree with your original intention that trying to hide info from HMRC. However, if you don!!!8217;t own or partially own any property or land for more than three years, I think you might be OK to claim you are !!!8216; first time buyer!!!8217;. You need to talk to HMRC to confirm though
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 9th Jan 18, 8:01 AM
    • 5,899 Posts
    • 12,507 Thanks
    marliepanda
    I totally don’t agree with your original intention that trying to hide info from HMRC. However, if you don’t own or partially own any property or land for more than three years, I think you might be OK to claim you are ‘ first time buyer’. You need to talk to HMRC to confirm though
    Originally posted by ileven1225
    Source for this?

    It’s not true for stamp duty which is One of HMRCS main involvements with House buying. What do you think will benefit the OP from this three year rule...
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 9th Jan 18, 9:38 AM
    • 7,827 Posts
    • 8,000 Thanks
    davidmcn
    if you don’t own or partially own any property or land for more than three years, I think you might be OK to claim you are ‘ first time buyer’.
    Originally posted by ileven1225
    I think you've got confused with something completely different. Here, FTB means you've never owned anything anywhere on the planet.
    • kingstreet
    • By kingstreet 9th Jan 18, 9:44 AM
    • 33,559 Posts
    • 18,195 Thanks
    kingstreet
    I totally don!!!8217;t agree with your original intention that trying to hide info from HMRC. However, if you don!!!8217;t own or partially own any property or land for more than three years, I think you might be OK to claim you are !!!8216; first time buyer!!!8217;. You need to talk to HMRC to confirm though
    Originally posted by ileven1225
    You are confusing this with Nationwide's FTB eligibility status;-

    To qualify as a first time buyer your client mustn!!!8217;t have held a mortgage in the last three years (this includes UK and non UK mortgages).

    All applicants to the mortgage need to be first time buyers to qualify for first time buyerproducts/cashback.
    I am a mortgage broker. You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a Mortgage Adviser, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice. Please do not send PMs asking for one-to-one-advice, or representation.
    • shortcrust
    • By shortcrust 9th Jan 18, 9:52 AM
    • 1,980 Posts
    • 2,943 Thanks
    shortcrust
    What happened to those fundamental British traditions of decency & fair-play?
    Originally posted by theartfullodger
    Hear hear. Lately the forum's been full of threads by people hoping to screw the system to their advantage (and our disadvantage!) in one way or another.
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