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  • FIRST POST
    • halexis91
    • By halexis91 8th Jan 18, 11:31 AM
    • 46Posts
    • 7Thanks
    halexis91
    Parking Charge Notice - myparkingcharge.co.uk
    • #1
    • 8th Jan 18, 11:31 AM
    Parking Charge Notice - myparkingcharge.co.uk 8th Jan 18 at 11:31 AM
    Hi, I haven't had a car that long so I'm hoping someone may be able to shed some light or give me some advice on how to handle this.

    The week before Christmas I parked in a private car park in Leeds city centre. I paid for my ticke and displayed it in my windscreen but when I got back there was a warden hovering and a parking charge notice on my window

    I spoke with the warden and asked him why i'd been ticketed. He advised the section I'd poked in was for permit holders only - apparently it was private land at the bottom of the private car park. I apologised but advised the warden that signage should be clearer as there was nothing major to say I couldn't park there. He advised I should appeal which I did online.

    I've just received the attached email from them (link below). I'm slightly annoyed with myself as my boyfriend just advised that if I didn't appeal they probably wouldn't have been able to send a notice because they wouldn't have been able to find my address details out.

    Anyway, I'm hoping someone can give advice on what my next step should be. Should I just wait for the notice and pay it or should I stand my ground? I hear all sorts about private companies ticketing for the sake of it but have no experience at all.
    Thanks in advance!

    https://ibb.co/nwWemm
Page 2
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 22nd Mar 18, 11:26 PM
    • 62,736 Posts
    • 75,665 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    private car park in Leeds city centre.
    I think Lamilad might know that City better than me.

    I would send a robust signal to BW Legal that you are not a pushover.

    This is the sort of letter that (in my opinion) I would be happy for a Judge to see, even with the words 'dross' and 'drivel'. It includes some stuff you would want a Judge to read and know about when reading your case before a hearing (we see people win 99% of them - BW Legal ones being particularly easy).

    Change it if it's not your writing style but no ''thank you for your letter''...they aren't worth it.





    Dear BW Legal,

    Re PCN xxxxxxxx (your ref xxxxxxxxxx)

    I refer to your computerised letter.

    I won't be web-chatting with you nor 'working with you'. Don't patronise me. I do not have 'an account' with your client who has no consumer customers and does not carry out any form of parking management as their primary agenda, in the way their hapless landowner clients are led to believe.

    Nor am I fooled by your baseless threatogram dross telling me your actions might affect my employability, as if you can just pluck a CCJ off the shelf and wreck people's credit and job prospects. Robo-claim firms like BW Legal should be ashamed of the way you mislead consumers; it would be refreshing if trained lawyers who convince yourselves that this sort of action is acceptable, actually looked at the bigger picture and used their skills to help society.

    Your letter is such a transparent computerised template of drivel hoping I am fooled enough to pay you, that it even says I ''did not appeal''. Actually, I did, even being stupid enough to think your client's employee who encouraged me to appeal and agreed that the bays were badly marked, was being honest and was some sort of 'warden'.

    The signage and markings at this car park are woeful, and no contract was accepted. I appealed in good faith, before I learnt what your client is really like. No more.

    How about looking at the case, spending some time on it, sending me your evidence of the signage and bay markings and the alleged 'contravention', to fulfil your first duty to the court and your moral duty to litigants in person, beleaguered by an industry that is so greedy and out of control that MPs now know about the 'outrageous scam' operated across the country, cluttering up the courts.

    It will not have escaped your attention that BW Legal were named and shamed in the Parliamentary debate in February, about the despicable private parking 'industry'. MP Stephen Doughty spoke compellingly and with vitriol about the parking firms that 'solicitors' like you are propping up and giving a veil of legitimacy, and he described the national scandal of 'rent a robo-claim' firms like BW Legal:

    ''I also want to highlight the firms of solicitors that work with those companies. We might refer to such firms as 'roboclaims' firms, and they often have a close and cosy relationship with the parking companies.

    Fundamentally, this comes down to common sense, justice and reasonableness. When things end up in court, it is an absurd situation. Roboclaims companies, which are making a massive mint off this industry, can issue a summons for just 30, and yet a defendant can sometimes have to pay as much as eight times that to defend the case, as well as having to deal with the time, emotion and everything that comes with that process.


    I wholeheartedly support the Bill proposed by the right hon. Member for East Yorkshire and very much hope it gets Royal Assent. We need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country.''

    Of course, it is well known that BW Legal boast of handling millions of parking victims' data at the same time, churning out letters like confetti. Your four solicitors obviously can't be bothered to look at any case pre-court and actually come up with specific information, and your letter giving me just ''16 days to reply or face court'', shows me that you are also playing fast and loose with the pre-action protocol for debt claims.

    It is important that you now stop contacting me pretending you are wanting to 'help' discuss an ''affordable payment arrangement'' for a debt that does not exist. This baseless but nasty financial attack on me is causing me serious distress (Ferguson v British Gas Trading Ltd. [2009] EWCA Civ 46 is the authority in such a case). Should your client proceed, I will have no hesitation in seeking my full costs on the indemnity basis, and will invite the Court to dismiss the claim and to award such Defence witness costs as are permissible, pursuant to CPR 27.14.

    If your client proceeds to court, I will file a counter-claim in excess of the sum your client is unreasonably demanding, seeking Vidall Hall compensation for my distress that I am noting and recounting to family and friends on a week-by-week basis, as evidence to support my position. How dare you harass me like this, how dare your client put me through this distress.

    I am aware of the following two cases in the past year:

    - on Friday 16th March, in case D8HW7G7P in the Slough County Court, another notorious ex-clamper parking firm (UKPC) lost an unreasonable claim against a beleaguered motorist and despite their roboclaim solicitor fielding a legal 'rent-a-rep', UKPC were found liable for the Defendant's ordinary costs and his 500 counter-claim for distress for a DPA breach by processing his data contrary to the Data Protection Principles.

    - in May 2017, in case D6GM2199 CEL v Mr B, Bury County Court, before DJ Osborne, a motorist was awarded 900 because another ex-clamper parking company of the same type as your client (in this case, Civil Enforcement Limited) committed data protection breaches against him. Mr B. was the vehicle keeper but was not the driver on the day. As the NTK was not POFA compliant (same as your client's NTK), the parking firm had no valid claim against the keeper. In addition, Wright Hassall (mirroring the conduct of BW Legal's robo-claim modus operandi) had acted unreasonably in artificially inflating the claim from 100 to 300 by adding spurious amounts.

    Mr B filed a counterclaim and this was upheld. In his judgment, DJ Osborne ruled a data breach had occurred, the tort of damages was applicable and that 500 was not an unreasonable amount in the circumstances. He added an additional 405 in costs, part of which were awarded on the indemnity basis, under rule 27.14.2(g) for the unreasonable behaviour of CEL. The Judge also stated he was disappointed in the claimant bringing an unfounded case, and in the behaviour of Wright Hassall who were 'otherwise a respectable law firm'.

    I urge you to avoid the same, and confirm this charge is immediately cancelled and my data is removed from all records held by you and your clients.

    yours faithfully,
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 21-05-2018 at 11:01 PM.
    • halexis91
    • By halexis91 23rd Mar 18, 9:35 AM
    • 46 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    halexis91
    Massive thanks Coupon-mad, I'll be sure to personalise the template you've provided and send onto BW Legal right away. I don't think I'll change much as I think you've done an amazing job at putting them in their place already!

    I'm planning to post this to BW legal over the weekend special delivery so I know exactly when it's reached them and will be back to update you guys with my progress.

    From past experience, is it likely that they'll respond to my letter? or do they tend to back off after realising you're not a push over and unable to manipulate you easily?

    Thanks again to everyone whose taken the time to respond!!
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 23rd Mar 18, 11:36 AM
    • 3,677 Posts
    • 4,506 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Do NOT send it special delivery!

    FIrst class with FREE proof of posting.

    90% chance of another template. Replying personally costs them money> But of course a template makes them look terrible, should they try court!
    • halexis91
    • By halexis91 23rd Mar 18, 3:55 PM
    • 46 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    halexis91
    Thanks nosferatu1001, I'll be sure to send first class signed for instead then.

    I'll let you guys know how I get on
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 23rd Mar 18, 4:02 PM
    • 9,805 Posts
    • 10,147 Thanks
    KeithP
    Thanks nosferatu1001, I'll be sure to send first class signed for instead then.

    I'll let you guys know how I get on
    Originally posted by halexis91
    No, no, no,no.

    Not signed for in any form.

    Send it first class post and get a free Certificate of Posting from the Post Office Counter.

    Anything else allows the intended recipient to refuse delivery, and then all you have is proof of non-delivery. Obviously not what you want.
    .
    • halexis91
    • By halexis91 23rd Mar 18, 4:47 PM
    • 46 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    halexis91
    Okay I get you now. So just retain the proof of posting so if they deny receiving it in court I have proof I've attempted to get it to them?

    Thank you!!
    • Redx
    • By Redx 23rd Mar 18, 4:49 PM
    • 19,613 Posts
    • 24,915 Thanks
    Redx
    correct

    a free certificate of posting from the PO Counterstaff is all you need to prove it was posted and when
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 23rd Mar 18, 5:02 PM
    • 9,805 Posts
    • 10,147 Thanks
    KeithP
    Okay I get you now. So just retain the proof of posting so if they deny receiving it in court I have proof I've attempted to get it to them?

    Thank you!!
    Originally posted by halexis91
    That's right.

    Anything sent by first class post is deemed delivered two days after posting, unless anyone can prove otherwise - which they can't of course.
    .
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 23rd Mar 18, 9:37 PM
    • 62,736 Posts
    • 75,665 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Thirded!

    On this forum we use NO form of ''signed for'' delivery because it hands the rogue PPC or roboclaim solicitor recipient an opportunity not to sign for it at all, in which case you have no proof of delivery or tracking at all.

    If you post normal 1st class they cannot reject it or refuse to sign or leave it uncollected at the PO for 3 weeks, because it's deemed in the door 2 working days after posting unless they can prove otherwise. Which they can't, and you hold the proof of postage (free).

    I normally staple the little receipt from the PO to a printed copy of the letter sent, so the receipt doesn't get tidied up/thrown away by mistake later, or lost in the depths of my handbag!
    • halexis91
    • By halexis91 8th May 18, 5:21 PM
    • 46 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    halexis91
    Hi All, so just a quick update just in case anyones interested and a little advice required.

    After coupon-mad supplied the above template I sent a copy to BW Legal as well as a copy to my local MP. Within a few days the house of commons replied advising that they had asked BW Legal to please cancel the parking ticket. That was around 2 weeks ago.

    The only correspondence I received from BW Legal was to advise that they'd received the letter and would be looking into this with their client to see how they wish to proceed.

    I got back from being abroad on Friday 4th May and came back to another letter from the house of commons. They enclosed a letter and form from BW Legal asking if I was happy for my MP to deal with this matter on my behalf. I'd planned to fill out and send copies of the form back to my MP and BW Legal today, however, before I did I just wondered if anybody else had gone down this route and managed to get the ticket cancelled?

    On the form they've asked for my national insurance number (BW Legal) is it safe for me to pass these details over to them?

    Thanks again!!!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 8th May 18, 5:48 PM
    • 62,736 Posts
    • 75,665 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    No idea why on earth BW Legal think they have grounds to have your NI number, I would leave it blank. But I would confirm that you are a British citizen and a constituent of the named MP and yes you agree for that MP to handle a complaint on your behalf.

    Yes we have seen PCNs cancelled when a decent MP steps in to add weight.

    • Redx
    • By Redx 8th May 18, 5:50 PM
    • 19,613 Posts
    • 24,915 Thanks
    Redx
    as above, there is no way that people will get my personal information just because they request it, leave it blank as mentioned above

    none of their business , so MYOB comes to mind

    name , address and bw legal ref or pcn ref is all that is needed
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • halexis91
    • By halexis91 9th May 18, 7:31 AM
    • 46 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    halexis91
    Thanks for getting back to me Redx & Coupon-mad. Those were my exact thoughts...I began to fill the form out and got slightly worried when they'd asked for my NI number. I already made the mistake of providing them with certain details when I appealed so really not trying to get stung again. Very glad I haven' sent it off yet!

    I'll be sending the details back today (not including my NI number) and will be sure to let you know how I get on!
    • halexis91
    • By halexis91 10th Sep 18, 11:27 AM
    • 46 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    halexis91
    Good morning!! I wanted to check in and give you guys an update and to get your advice on how I should continue.

    Okay so since my last post I handed the case over to my local MP to deal with. BW Legal wrote me a letter to advise that the account had been put on hold whilst the investigation took place. I finally received another letter from the house of commons on Saturday (8th September) advising that they were unsuccessful in getting the PCN cancelled and they attached the response they had received from BW legal along with 4 or 5 images of my car in the parking space where it was ticketed.

    I was not in the slightest happy about the response BW Legal gave as they had the cheek to say that the letter I had sent was offensive and they stated they do not appreciate their 'staff being abused'...I'm happy to scan all of their response in this evening and upload if required. They also stated that they're happy to put a payment plan in place.

    Would you continue to fight this? My gut feeling is to fight it due to the principal of the whole matter. Yes I may have been parked in what they believe is a private parking area, but I paid my money to park in that car park. I honestly don't believe I should have to pay, however, family and friends keep advising I should just give up and set up a minimum payment plan for monthly payments.

    Look forward to hearing what you guys think!
    • halexis91
    • By halexis91 11th Sep 18, 12:42 PM
    • 46 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    halexis91
    Anyone able to assist or advise what my next steps would be?
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 11th Sep 18, 2:21 PM
    • 37,507 Posts
    • 21,727 Thanks
    Quentin
    Assuming you already replied to the "letter of claim" you mention above then you now have two options:


    Wait and see if a claim is forthcoming


    Or pay them


    No-one here would advise you pay them!
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