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  • FIRST POST
    • angelfire
    • By angelfire 8th Jan 18, 8:13 AM
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    angelfire
    County Court Claim Excel parking/BW Legal, in need of help!
    • #1
    • 8th Jan 18, 8:13 AM
    County Court Claim Excel parking/BW Legal, in need of help! 8th Jan 18 at 8:13 AM
    Hi everyone,


    I posted on the Pepipoo forums yesterday but have been advised to come here for advice/help.


    I have read the Newbies thread, but have received a County Court Claim and so it says I'm to start a new thread, so here it is!


    Particulars of Claim

    The claimants claim is for the sum of 100.00 being monies due from the Defendant to the Claimant in respect of a PCN issued on June/16 at (time stated) at Bryan House, Wigan ANPR Charging Scheme Std (60-100).

    The PCN relates to Ford under registration L*** ***.
    CN but the defendant failed to do so. Despite demand having been made, the defendant has failed to settle their outstanding liability.
    The claim also includes statutory interest pursuant to the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum daily rate of 0.02 from June 2016 to 01/01/2018 being an amount of 11.66. The claimant also claims 60.00 contractual costs pursuant to PCN T's & C's.



    I have stupidly ignored and thrown previous letters, as I didn't think they were genuine, but I do seem to remember now a letter arriving with a photo of my vehicle.
    As for the day in question, I'm not sure if it will have been myself driving, or my partner/family member. All I do know is that I don't ever park without a ticket, or as is more often the case, I use paybyphone. I do not know if the car park stated here uses that system or not.


    I have been on to the MCOL site and acknowledged receipt of the claim, but have no idea how to build a defence? I am hoping to gather some help from others, if it is felt that I can somehow fight this, or at least part of the cost?


    Thank you all in advance,


    D


    Edit to add: I have now read post 2 of the Newbies thread, but before I start to prepare a defence for others to peruse, I need more information about what they are actually taking me to court for. I need to know what, (If any), pics they have of my vehicle for a start. How do I go about getting this info? Who do I write to or call, would it be BW Legal or Excel Parking themselves?
    How do I decide whether signage on the car park is appropriate and indeed, it was so long ago, it could have been changed since the alleged occurred?





    Last edited by angelfire; 08-01-2018 at 8:48 AM. Reason: Additional text
Page 3
    • angelfire
    • By angelfire 11th Jul 18, 1:59 PM
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    • 185 Thanks
    angelfire
    [IMG][/IMG]
    • angelfire
    • By angelfire 11th Jul 18, 2:01 PM
    • 838 Posts
    • 185 Thanks
    angelfire
    Worked out how to get the photos on! Apologies for the upside down one. There are a few more of the signage taken at night but they haven't sent any of them taken during the day.

    The photos of my car reg, one of the letters on my reg plate is obscured by something, which looks like maybe a smudge on the camera? I'm not sure, but there was nothing wrong with the plate itself? Neither of the photos of my car show it parked in a bay, I'm not sure if that makes any difference?

    ok, so the signage is the same now as it was in the photos taken by BW Legal.

    My defence is as was stated above in the thread.
    Last edited by angelfire; 11-07-2018 at 2:04 PM. Reason: added detail to my post
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 11th Jul 18, 2:08 PM
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    IamEmanresu
    Since you cannot disprove Excel being the lawful occupier, you are left with

    a) Signs not being clear which the night pic confirms and
    b) Driver identity which unless you can prove you were elsewhere, leaves it open to the judge to decide on the balance of probabilites
    c) The (unidentified) driver may have paid but you can offer no evidence of the same.

    Write your WS on the basis of your defence and concentrate on trying to sort out a - c above.
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
    • angelfire
    • By angelfire 11th Jul 18, 2:16 PM
    • 838 Posts
    • 185 Thanks
    angelfire
    Since you cannot disprove Excel being the lawful occupier, you are left with

    a) Signs not being clear which the night pic confirms and
    b) Driver identity which unless you can prove you were elsewhere, leaves it open to the judge to decide on the balance of probabilites
    c) The (unidentified) driver may have paid but you can offer no evidence of the same.

    Write your WS on the basis of your defence and concentrate on trying to sort out a - c above.
    Originally posted by IamEmanresu
    Is there any point in pushing the fact that there's no photos of my car in an actual space?

    It's so long ago, I'd struggle to prove I was elsewhere now I think.

    Is it worth me going down to take more photos of my own in the day? The lettering IS quite small?

    Based on the above, how strong of a case do you think I've actually got? I have read lots of successful cases, but they have been where the defendant had put the wrong number in the machine, or they remember not being able to find a suitable space etc. i mean it's possible that if my partner were driving, he could have been waiting for a suitably sized space to become available (it is quite a big car and can be difficult to park), but neither of us remember that far back!

    I just don't want to go through the stress of a court appearance and then end up paying it all anyway if my defence is practically none existent!

    Thank you for your continued help by the way!
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 11th Jul 18, 3:15 PM
    • 3,299 Posts
    • 5,559 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    if my defence is practically none existent!
    We don't know that as you haven't said if you have researched

    a) Who pays the Non-Domestic Rates or
    b) Who was driving or
    c) Was a payment made by card or pay by phone.

    Only you know or can find that out.
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Jul 18, 12:40 AM
    • 61,698 Posts
    • 74,601 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Why did you not prepare your WS and evidence weeks ago, seeing as the NEWBIES thread tells you what to do when, with example WS and evidence, and the court letter giving you the hearing date already told all parties when to exchange WS by. So you were told here and told by the court.

    You are lucky your court reminded you. Most would not.

    Not lucky if it's Wigan court though. They are infamous for a terrible decision v Janeo on pepipoo.

    Amazed people bung in a defence then disappear, despite the NEWBIES thread telling everyone 'defence is not your only job'! Hurrumph. Now you are on the back foot.

    Show us your draft WS. An easy thing to write. See the NEWBIES thread.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • angelfire
    • By angelfire 12th Jul 18, 11:43 AM
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    • 185 Thanks
    angelfire
    I am really struggling with this and feel I would probably be best just paying up.

    I'm off work with stress after a bad couple of months and i can't see any way of winning this case. After having checked, it looks like it would have been myself driving, as my partner was signed in at work, but either way, no ticket was bought (I've checked bank statements).

    I've been back down to the car park and taken my own photos of the signs, and whilst the print IS small, they ARE there.

    The pack that has been sent to me by BW Legal answers every one of my points in my defence and so I'm struggling to write any sort of witness statement. I can't remember the day in question!

    What will happen now if I just call them and ask to pay? I don't have the money to pay anything all at once anyway. Is it too late to negotiate the charges down?
    • angelfire
    • By angelfire 12th Jul 18, 11:55 AM
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    • 185 Thanks
    angelfire
    Also, if I give in and pay up now, then I have a chance of setting up a payment plan and paying it off over time. If I lose in court, I'm assuming court fees will be added on and I'll have a finite amount of time to pay, or a CCJ will be applied?
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 12th Jul 18, 12:19 PM
    • 3,299 Posts
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    IamEmanresu
    You'd likely be better letting the claim run on to court - on a papers only basis.

    Write a Witness Statement with your version of events and what you honestly believe. A judge will always look at both sides and make a decision on what is in front of him.

    If you lose, it will be for an amount he/she sees as due and often it is less than the amount you are thinking of paying. There also should be no additional costs as neither party needs attend.

    There is also the chance that the judge knows the site (quite likely now) and will be aware of a flaw in the Excel case which means you will pay nothing. They have to make their case as they are the ones that have instigated the action.

    So Witness Statement and a papers only hearing is likely to be your least cost option.
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
    • angelfire
    • By angelfire 12th Jul 18, 12:43 PM
    • 838 Posts
    • 185 Thanks
    angelfire
    You'd likely be better letting the claim run on to court - on a papers only basis.

    Write a Witness Statement with your version of events and what you honestly believe. A judge will always look at both sides and make a decision on what is in front of him.

    If you lose, it will be for an amount he/she sees as due and often it is less than the amount you are thinking of paying. There also should be no additional costs as neither party needs attend.

    There is also the chance that the judge knows the site (quite likely now) and will be aware of a flaw in the Excel case which means you will pay nothing. They have to make their case as they are the ones that have instigated the action.

    So Witness Statement and a papers only hearing is likely to be your least cost option.
    Originally posted by IamEmanresu
    How would i go about this please? In terms of the papers only hearing? BW Legal have just offered to reduce the charge by half?
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 12th Jul 18, 12:48 PM
    • 3,299 Posts
    • 5,559 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    BW Legal have just offered to reduce the charge by half?
    What is that figure and is it acceptable to you.

    Whatever the rights/wrongs of the PPC industry, the decision will always be a personal one based on how valuable your time is, and how you feel about your case.

    Some people will defend a case on principle. Some will be pragmatic and look at cost/benefit. It's your decision.

    There is also the chance that the judge knows the site (quite likely now) and will be aware of a flaw in the Excel case which means you will pay nothing.
    Perhaps this is correct - or it may be wishful thinking. But all court cases come with a risk for both sides
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
    • angelfire
    • By angelfire 12th Jul 18, 12:53 PM
    • 838 Posts
    • 185 Thanks
    angelfire
    What is that figure and is it acceptable to you.

    Whatever the rights/wrongs of the PPC industry, the decision will always be a personal one based on how valuable your time is, and how you feel about your case.

    Some people will defend a case on principle. Some will be pragmatic and look at cost/benefit. It's your decision.


    Perhaps this is correct - or it may be wishful thinking. But all court cases come with a risk for both sides
    Originally posted by IamEmanresu
    The cost is reduced from 270 to 160. Still extortionate, but I don't feel I have enough of a case to win and I know that in my current state of mind, I'd go to pieces in court.

    how does one go about making it a papers only hearing?
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 12th Jul 18, 1:14 PM
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    • 4,269 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    That isnt half!

    You write to the court and ask fo rit. You can easily look up this info on the gov website.

    Its your choice.
    • angelfire
    • By angelfire 12th Jul 18, 1:32 PM
    • 838 Posts
    • 185 Thanks
    angelfire
    That isnt half!

    You write to the court and ask fo rit. You can easily look up this info on the gov website.

    Its your choice.
    Originally posted by nosferatu1001
    ok thank you
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 12th Jul 18, 2:49 PM
    • 61,698 Posts
    • 74,601 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    The charge was 100. Then court fees of 50, if you do lose.

    It was never 270, that was made up, so BW Legal have offered nothing of value to you.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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