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County Court Claim Excel parking/BW Legal, in need of help!

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  • angelfire
    angelfire Posts: 866
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    KeithP wrote: »
    The first line of post #3 may help you.

    OK, with that wording removed, is it ok to send? There are many examples of defences on the net, the majority of which I've scoured as they day has gone on, but the correct wording when asking for further information because i no longer have all the letters, is not something I've been able to find. And I realise, that in order to formulate a decent defence, I could really do with this information. What I don't want to do, is send the wrong thing!
  • angelfire
    angelfire Posts: 866
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    The_Deep wrote: »
    IMO that sign is far too fussy, different colours, different size type faces, jazzy background, far too much information.

    What do the lines of print at the very bottom say? At what height are they from the ground? What are its dimensions? Are any of its T&C unreasonable? Where is the penalty charge. it appears tyo beburied in the small print.


    Read the Excel v Cutts transcript..

    I will need to visit the site to judge all of this, but intend to tomorrow evening. However, I'm not convinced that particular signage was in place at the date of the alleged contravention, hence me asking for them to state the date it was put in place.

    Thank you for your help and suggestion to read Excel v Cutts, I will go and search for that now. :)
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,427
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    edited 8 January 2018 at 8:22PM
    !!!!!!!!! wrote: »
    OK, with that wording removed, is it ok to send? There are many examples of defences on the net, the majority of which I've scoured as they day has gone on, but the correct wording when asking for further information because i no longer have all the letters, is not something I've been able to find. And I realise, that in order to formulate a decent defence, I could really do with this information. What I don't want to do, is send the wrong thing!

    Aren't you really looking for a LBC rebuttal letter at this stage?

    There are some linked from post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread which list all the things that should be supplied but are perhaps not.
    The first three links in that post will help.

    Just tailor one to suit what you have received and what you still need.



    [no idea why your user name has come out at !!!!!!!!! in the quote header. There seems to be something magical about angelfire.]
  • angelfire
    angelfire Posts: 866
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    KeithP wrote: »
    Aren't you really looking for a LBC rebuttal letter at this stage?

    There are some linked from post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread which list all the things that should be supplied but are perhaps not.
    The first three links in that post will help.

    Just tailor one to suit what you have received and what you still need.



    [no idea why your user name has come out at !!!!!!!!! in the quote header. There seems to be something magical about angelfire.]

    No idea why my username does that, it always has done!

    Can I still send an LBC rebuttal letter? Or should it be a letter, requesting the same information, just not called a rebuttal letter, if that make sense?!
  • angelfire
    angelfire Posts: 866
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    Okay so I'm going around in circles and I haven't even started on any kind of defence yet. I'm being told on my own (this) thread, that a Part 18 request is not appropriate to my case, yet when reading through other similar cases as has been suggested, I find this thread here: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5478608


    where the chap in question has used one at the same stage as I am at now - or am I missing something?


    Then it's been suggested I need more of an LBC rebuttal letter instead, but again, as far as I can see, this should be used prior to receiving the court claim papers, which I already have!


    I need to send something to BW Legal today, or I'm going to really struggle building a defence when I don't even know what it is I'm defending!


    If I call them are they likely to tell me what the original paperwork says? If not, which of the above should I be sending?


    all and any help whatsoever is greatly appreciated!


    D x
  • nosferatu1001
    nosferatu1001 Posts: 12,961
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    2016!!!!!!!!

    As told. Part 18 does not apply to claims on the Small Claims Track. You DO NOT call it a part 18, but instead make reference to the overiding objective and that you require the documents to narrow the issues under dispute.

    Youve also been told some common defences. Its always about standing and signage, and no keeper liability if that is still in place

    NEVER EVER call them.
  • angelfire
    angelfire Posts: 866
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    2016!!!!!!!!

    As told. Part 18 does not apply to claims on the Small Claims Track. You DO NOT call it a part 18, but instead make reference to the overiding objective and that you require the documents to narrow the issues under dispute.

    Youve also been told some common defences. Its always about standing and signage, and no keeper liability if that is still in place

    NEVER EVER call them.


    Okay, thank you. I have drafted the following:




    To BW Legal

    I write with regards to the above mentioned County Court Claim.
    To ensure that I have all of the information required and to narrow the issues under dispute. Please answer the following questions:-

    1. Please can you give an explanation of the cause of action?



    2. Please can you supply a copy of any Notice To Keeper that may have been sent?


    3. Is Excel Parking pursuing me as the driver or keeper?


    3.What is the basis of the claim? Is Excel Parking making a claim as an agent of the landowner or are they making the claim as occupier in their own right?


    4. Is the amount claimed by Excel Parking for a genuine pre estimate of loss for a breach of contract or a contractual sum?


    5. If the contract has been conveyed by the use of signage on site, please provide copies of the signs on which you rely and confirm these are the signs in situ on the date of the event. Please also provide the date these signs were installed, for example, a works schedule, maintenance record or invoice for the work.


    6. Were there signs at the entrance to the site on the date in question? Did these meet the British Parking Association's Code of Practice Appendix B (Entrance signs) or the Independent Parking Committee’s Schedule 1 (Please indicate)


    7. A copy of the PCN Terms and Conditions





    Please can you provide the above information within 14 days.



    Does this look ok to send? As far as I can see, I think I've covered everything?
  • System
    System Posts: 178,077
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    I'm not convinced that particular signage was in place at the date of the alleged contravention, hence me asking for them to state the date it was put in place.

    The signs have changed over the period but they are all broadly similar
    Is Excel Parking making a claim as an agent of the landowner or are they making the claim as occupier in their own right?

    They are occupiers in their own right. Simple way to confirm this is to ask the local council who pays the Non-Domestic Rates which will be Excel.

    Your strongest argument will be that they are chasing the driver or the person they think was driving. Their paperwork is not POFA compliant so if you have evidence of being elsewhere that day, it should kill it.
  • angelfire
    angelfire Posts: 866
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    The signs have changed over the period but they are all broadly similar



    They are occupiers in their own right. Simple way to confirm this is to ask the local council who pays the Non-Domestic Rates which will be Excel.

    Your strongest argument will be that they are chasing the driver or the person they think was driving. Their paperwork is not POFA compliant so if you have evidence of being elsewhere that day, it should kill it.


    Ok, I will take that point out.


    Many thanks!
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,427
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    KeithP wrote: »
    There are some linked from post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread which list all the things that should be supplied but are perhaps not.
    The first three links in that post will help.

    Just tailor one to suit what you have received and what you still need.

    No idea why that wasn't useful.
    It's pretty much the same as nosferatu1001 has told you.
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