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  • FIRST POST
    • celfighter
    • By celfighter 7th Jan 18, 7:59 PM
    • 82Posts
    • 8Thanks
    celfighter
    Metro Inn, Walsall
    • #1
    • 7th Jan 18, 7:59 PM
    Metro Inn, Walsall 7th Jan 18 at 7:59 PM
    Hi Everyone. I hope you can help me. This story is a little long-winded. I'll try to be clear as I can.

    On 08/11/2017 I received a letter from ZZPS about an alleged parking offence (PCN), which took place on 25/07/2017. ZZPS is obviously the debt collection company. I have not received any other correspondence before this letter, no NTK.

    I responded to them by email, as the vehicle in question was registered at the wrong address.

    Your Client: Civil Enforcement Ltd
    PCN: xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Vehicle: xxxxxxxxxxx
    Location: Metro Inn, Birmingham Road, Walsall, WS5 3AB
    Issue Date: 27/07/2017
    Dear Sir/Madam,

    I refer to your Parking Charge Notice (“PCN”) Ref. xxxxxxxxxxxxx

    I confirm that at the time of this alleged incident, I was the vehicle’s keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definition under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“POFA 2012”).

    I Must also inform you that you must write to me at a different address; I no longer live at xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. Further correspondence should be sent to:-
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    Further:
    I received no Notice to Keeper at all and have no information about the issue.
    I require ZZPS to supply all photos and copies of all correspondence to me at xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    Shortly after this email, I received a letter stating that their computer records have now been updated and further correspondence will be sent to the correct address. They said that their client has the photos and I would not be getting any copies unless of litigation .

    This matter has now been passed along to QDR solicitors (Quantum Debt Recovery??) who has raised the outstanding balance and is threatening a CCJ.

    I am wondering how to respond to this matter. Can anyone advise me? I have read the MSE newbies thread, but template letters advise what to do before a solicitor gets involved. I wondered about using this template:

    Dear {name of IPC member - only IPC members for this version!!!}

    Re PCN number:

    I am the keeper of the vehicle and am aware of your purported 'parking charge'. The driver will not be identified. I require the following information so that I can make an informed decision:

    1. Who is the party that contracted with your company and are they the landowner?
    2. Is your charge based on damages for breach of contract? Answer yes or no.
    3. Please provide photos of the signs that you say were on site, which you contend formed a contract with the driver.
    4. Please provide all photographs taken of this vehicle.
    5. Please provide proof that the timing of any camera or timer used was synchronised with all other cameras and/or systems & machines.

    Do not send debt collector letters and do not add any costs, which would be a thinly-veiled attempt at 'double recovery'. I will not respond to debt collectors and to involve a third party would be a failure to mitigate your costs as well as deliberate and knowing misuse of my data.

    Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause (e.g. if you do not fully comply with the IPC Code of Practice in terms of signage at this site, as seems likely based on my research) please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me. I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle.

    I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

    Yours faithfully,
Page 4
    • celfighter
    • By celfighter 20th Oct 18, 9:53 PM
    • 82 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    celfighter
    Hi everybody, here is my first go at creating a Witness Statement. Would you please comment on it. My Defence document, which elaborates on this statement can be read on post #56
    Thank you so much for your consideration.

    IN THE COUNTY COURT AT xxxxx

    CLAIM No: xxx

    Between
    CIVIL ENFORCEMENT LIMITED (Claimant)
    -and-
    xxxx (Defendant)

    WITNESS STATEMENT

    I, xxxxx, of [address details here], am the Defendant in this matter, and will say as follows:

    • I am the registered keeper of the vehicle in question; registration xxxxx.
    • I am not asserting that I was the driver of the vehicle on the incident date, 25/07/2017.
    • The first contact I had from the Claimant’s debt recovery team, ZZPS, relating to this PCN, was on 08/11/2017.
    • I have never received any previous documentation from the Claimant – a “Notice to Keeper” letter in this matter, and I thus was never able to challenge the Claimant’s claim.
    • On 15/11/2017 I asked for ZZPS to supply all photos and copies of correspondence to me at my current address. I was informed by ZZPS that all information they hold on their system has been supplied to me in their most recent letter. Photographic evidence and copies of correspondence sent by their client will only be provided in the event of litigation. (see email printout)
    • Considering the above I was unable to defend this claim. I thus believe that this case should be struck out, and the Claimant should reimburse costs, as outlined in the Schedule of Costs document.

    I believe the facts contained in this Defence Statement are true.
    xxxxx
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 21st Oct 18, 11:21 AM
    • 3,355 Posts
    • 2,304 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    I believe it was my distilled defence. Is it really my witness statement? Do I just call it WS?
    Originally posted by fisherp123
    If it is a DEFENCE, it is written in the third person e.g. the defendant did this or the defendant avers that. If it is a witness statement it is written in the first person because you are the witness. You seem to have mixed up first and third person statements and are then adding in points of law. Only you know at what point you are in the process.
    • celfighter
    • By celfighter 21st Oct 18, 7:32 PM
    • 82 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    celfighter
    Thank you for pointing this out to me.
    So if I change my WS to first person perspective and hand that in with my defence, as outlined in a previous post, I should be good to go?

    Also, do I hang-fire with submitting any of this until I know what the claimant intends to do? They have a deadline (end of Oct) to respond to the set-aside...

    Thanks again.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 21st Oct 18, 7:57 PM
    • 10,665 Posts
    • 11,051 Thanks
    KeithP
    Fisher, unless you have an urgent deadline to meet I would wait a few more days for comment.

    Many knowledgeable posters do not post at weekends.
    .
    • celfighter
    • By celfighter 31st Oct 18, 12:16 PM
    • 82 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    celfighter
    Hi everyone. The claimant, CEL, had until 4pm yesterday to file their £25 court fee to take this matter to court. I heard this morning that they do intend to pursue this matter. The hearing will be at the end of November. I am obviously concerned now, as I had hoped that the distilled defence which you all helped me with would be enough to put them off. I have now created a Witness Statement, which I will included here. would you please let me know if I should add to it or change it in any way?

    I am also assuming (dangerous to assume) that I need to rely on my original distilled defence, which I will also post below. Am I missing something? Have I got to create anything else? I am going on holiday tomorrow so have very little time to get this figured out.

    Witness statement:
    IN THE COUNTY COURT AT WALSALL

    CLAIM No: xxxx

    Between
    CIVIL ENFORCEMENT LIMITED (Claimant)
    -and-
    xxxxx (Defendant)

    WITNESS STATEMENT

    I, xxxx, of xxxxx street, am the Defendant in this matter, and will say as follows:

    • I am the registered keeper of the vehicle in question; registration xxxxx.
    • I am not asserting that I was the driver of the vehicle on the incident date, xx/xx/2017.
    • The very first contact I had from the Claimant was from their debt recovery team, ZZPS, relating to this PCN, on xx/11/2017.
    • I have never received any previous documentation from the Claimant – no “Notice to Keeper” letter, and I thus was never able to challenge the Claimant’s claim.
    • The first letter from ZZPS stated they wanted £200 because the original PCN was ignored. This is a complete lie. I never received any Notice to Keeper letter, as required within 14 days of an alleged parking offence.
    • On xx/11/2017 I emailed ZZPS and requested a copy of all photos and correspondence to be sent to me at my current address. I was informed by ZZPS that all information they hold on their system has been supplied to me in their most recent letter (a letter I had never received). I was also told that Photographic evidence and copies of correspondence sent by their client will only be provided in the event of litigation (see email printout).
    • Considering the above I was unable to defend this claim. I thus believe that this case should be struck out, and the Claimant should reimburse costs, as outlined in the Schedule of Costs document.

    I believe the facts contained in this Defence Statement are true.
    xxxxxx



    Defence notes post #56
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 31st Oct 18, 1:37 PM
    • 10,665 Posts
    • 11,051 Thanks
    KeithP
    I believe the facts contained in this Defence Statement are true.
    Originally posted by fisherp123
    Is that a Witness Statement or a Defence?

    Not the first time you have been prompted to correct this.

    Attention to detail is so important.
    Last edited by KeithP; 31-10-2018 at 1:40 PM.
    .
    • celfighter
    • By celfighter 31st Oct 18, 2:29 PM
    • 82 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    celfighter
    Hi Keith. The above is a witness statement. It is labelled 'witness statement' and it is written in the first person form, as I was informed.
    The other document in post 56 wad a distilled defence.
    I am not clear if or why these are incorrect. Please can you help me?
    Thank you
    • celfighter
    • By celfighter 31st Oct 18, 2:32 PM
    • 82 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    celfighter
    I also have until 12 noon tomorrow to get these documents finished and posted to the claimant and the court itself.

    I am going on holiday for 3 weeks tomorrow and return home just a few days before court. It's so frustrating because I do not know what 'evidence'the claimant is going to use. I certainly haven't had a chance to see any.
    I understand they and I need to exchange statements not less than 14 days before couet date. So i have to have this finished tonight.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 31st Oct 18, 2:57 PM
    • 10,665 Posts
    • 11,051 Thanks
    KeithP
    Hi Keith. The above is a witness statement. It is labelled 'witness statement' and it is written in the first person form, as I was informed.
    Originally posted by fisherp123
    Then re-read the last line of it and explain why it says:
    I believe the facts contained in this Defence Statement are true.
    You really are not paying attention to what people are telling you.
    .
    • celfighter
    • By celfighter 31st Oct 18, 3:02 PM
    • 82 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    celfighter
    I see. I must have learning difficulties. I am so stupid sometimes. Thabk you Keith.
    Do you have anything else to add?
    Is my WS and defence adequate do you think?
    I have to get this sent out by noon tomorrow... Thank you
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 1st Nov 18, 12:04 AM
    • 63,875 Posts
    • 76,536 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    What about your evidence to accompany it? As per the example list of typical evidence in the NEWBIES thread in the section about Witness Statements?

    Are you not at least adducing a highlighted copy of Schedule 4 of the POFA and arguing 'no keeper liability' because it's too long ago to recall who was driving, like this person?

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5768966&page=6

    You haven't admitted or denied being the driver or shown evidence that there was more than one named driver insured and allowed to use that car in 2017. Your WS needs to support your defence and tell the story of who you are and what you know and what your evidence is (attached by number).

    Make sure you don't try to EMAIL this to your local court, you can't rely on that.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • celfighter
    • By celfighter 1st Nov 18, 8:03 AM
    • 82 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    celfighter
    Coupon-mad, thank you so much! I am getting to work on this right now. I will post my work shortly...
    • celfighter
    • By celfighter 1st Nov 18, 11:28 AM
    • 82 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    celfighter
    I am going to submit this with my WS today, around 1pm. If there is anything to change I need to do it now. Thank you all for your contributions. I really appreciate all you have said to help me.

    IN THE COUNTY COURT AT WALSALL
    Claim No.: xxxxx
    Between
    xxxxxxx (Claimant)
    -and-
    xxxxx (Defendant)
    01 November 2018
    __________

    DEFENCE
    __________
    The Parking Charge from xxx is an invoice with which I do not agree.
    As previously stated to xxxx[claimant] (xx/11/2017), I confirm that at the time of this alleged incident, I was the vehicle’s registered keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definition under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“POFA 2012”).
    * In no way is the Defendant declaring himself as the driver of the vehicle. *

    1. The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all.
    2. The Defendant received no ‘Notice to Keeper’ letter. The Claimant then raised their £100 parking charge to £200. It is submitted that this is merely a tactic to extract “double money”, and the Defendant is in any case not liable.
    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    3) It is denied that there was a contract made between the Claimant and the driver through signage.
    This case can be distinguished from ParkingEye v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67 (the Beavis case) which was dependent upon an undenied contract formed by unusually prominent signage forming a clear offer and which turned on unique facts regarding the location and the interests of the landowner. Strict compliance with the BPA Code of Practice (CoP) was paramount and Mr Beavis was the driver who saw the signs and entered into a contract to pay £85 after exceeding a licence to park free.

    3.1)BPA's Code of Practice (18.3) states:

    "Signs must be conspicuous and legible, and written in intelligible language, so that they are easy to see, read and understand."
    The signs at this site are very inconspicuous. The font size used is too small and impossible to read upon entry in daylight (see exhibit #defence 1). [photo of car park and small sign]


    3.2)BPA's Code of Practice (Appendix B) states:

    "Signs should be readable and understandable at all times, including during the hours of darkness or at dusk if and when parking enforcement activity takes place at those times. This can be achieved in a variety of ways such as by direct lighting or by using the lighting for the parking area. If the sign itself is not directly or indirectly lit, we suggest that it should be made of a retro-reflective material."
    The Car Park is not well lit at night and there is no direct lighting to the signs.
    When arriving at the car park in which the alleged incident occurred it is impossible to see and read, let alone understand, the terms and conditions being imposed. Therefore, the driver did not have a fair opportunity to read about any terms and conditions involving this charge.
    Relevant images have been requested and denied by the claimant.
    3.3) Bearing the above in mind, there was categorically no contract established between the driver and Claimant. To draw on the basic guidelines of contract law for a contract to be effective the offer must be communicated. Therefore, there can be no acceptance of an agreement if the other person is without knowledge of the offer. In the absence of any proof of adequate signage that contractually bound the Defendant, there can have been no contract and the Claimant has no case.
    4. PCN sent to Defendant is not fully compliant with the Protection of Freedom Act 2012 and therefore no keeper liability can be established:-

    Sch 4 Para9(2)(f) warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given-

    (i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full, and

    (ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,

    the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid.

    4.1 The Claimant sent the first letter 106 days after the alleged incident took place. This does not comply with the strict wording required by POFA. The vital matter of full compliance was confirmed by parking law expert barrister Henry Greenslade in 2015.

    The Defendant has not named the driver, and it cannot be assumed by the Claimant that the Defendant is the driver. After 106 days it is impossible to know who the driver was!
    I put the claimant to strict proof that the Defendant is personally liable for this claim.

    5. Please view the sign, used at the location: [closeup of sign]


    I wish to make the following points:
    5.1 It is a forbidding sign.
    There is no offer to park. Therefore it cannot form the basis of a contract. The offer of parking is only made to permit holders and only permit holders could therefore be bound by any contract.
    5.2 This is clear from several cases. In PCM-UK v Bull et all B4GF26K6 [2016], residents were parking on access roads. The signage forbade parking and so no contract was in place. A trespass had occurred, but that meant only the landowner could claim, not the parking company.
    5.3 In UKPC v Masterson B4GF26K6[2016] it was also found the signage was forbidding and so the matter was one of trespass. The parking company did not have standing to claim.
    5.4 In Horizon Parking v Mr J C5GF17X2 [2016] it was also found the signage was forbidding and so the matter was one of trespass. The parking company did not have standing to claim.

    5.5 Lack of Prominence.
    If the driver did not see the sign then the sign is not prominent. The charge of £100 is far from prominent.

    o The BPA code of Practice Section 18 states that signs must be placed at the entrance to the car park and throughout the car park in a strictly prescribed format. This covers things such as the size of the sign, the size of the text and the text content itself.

    o The way it is written suggests the rules are non-negotiable, such as; "you must also have a standard form of entrance sign" and "signs showing your detailed terms and conditions must be at least 450mm x 450mm".

    o The Defendant contests the validity of these signs. Not prominent and missed.


    6.The Claimants contractual authority to operate in the car park in which the alleged incident occurred has not been proven as required by the Claimants Trade Association's Code of Practice B1.1 which states:

    "If you operate parking management activities on land which is not owned by you, you must supply us with written authority from the land owner sufficient to establish you as the ‘Creditor’ within the meaning of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (where applicable) and in any event to establish you as a person who is able to recover parking charges."

    6.1) In order to issue parking charges and to pursue unpaid charges via litigation, the Claimant is required to have the written authority of the landowner, on whose behalf they are acting as an agent. It is believed Civil Enforcement Limited does not hold a legitimate contract at this car park; it has certainly not been proven.
    6.2) There is no copy of the contract provided under the Pre-action Protocol.

    As an agent, the Claimant has no legal right to bring such a claim in their name which should be in the name of the landowner. Furthermore, no evidence of such authority has been supplied by the Claimant, and the Claimant is put to strict proof of the same, in the form of an unreacted and contemporaneous contract, or chain of authority, from the landowner to the Claimant. (This has been requested.)
    A Managing Agent is not the Landowner.

    7. Other Notes:

    7.1 The Claimant may rely on the case of ParkingEye v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67 as a binding precedent on the lower court. However, that only assists the Claimant if the facts of the case are the same, or broadly the same. In Beavis, it was common ground between the parties that the terms of a contract had been breached, whereas it is the Defendant’s position that no such breach occurred in this case, because there was no valid contract, and also because the legitimate interest in enforcing parking rules for retailers and shoppers in Beavis does not apply to these circumstances. Therefore, this case can be distinguished from Beavis on the facts and circumstances.

    7.2 The Claimant, or their legal representatives, has added an additional sums to the original £100 parking charge, for which no explanation or justification has been provided. Schedule 4 of the Protection Of Freedoms Act, at 4(5), states that the maximum sum which can be recovered is that specified in the Notice to Keeper, which is £100 in this instance. It is submitted that this is an attempt at double recovery by the Claimant, which the Court should not uphold, even in the event that Judgment for Claimant is awarded.

    7.3 For all or any of the reasons stated above, the Court is invited to dismiss the Claim in its entirety, and to award the Defendant such costs as are allowable on the small claims track, pursuant to Civil Procedure Rule 27.14.

    7.4 In the event the claim progresses, then as an unrepresented litigant in person, the Defendant reserves the right to alter, vary and add to this defence or reply to any further particulars of claim/documents the Claimant may provide.



    Statement of Truth
    I believe that the facts stated in this Defence are true.


    (Defendant) xxxxxx



    (Date) xx/xx/xxxx
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 1st Nov 18, 1:51 PM
    • 3,921 Posts
    • 4,720 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Thats more like a defence!

    A witness statement is a series of FACTS
    Not arguments.

    You need to either
    1) Deny you were the driver
    OR
    2) State it was so long ago you cannot be sure who the driver was. It coudl have been ... or ... or ... etc as based on your insurance docs, plus anyone driving with your permission under "drive other vehicels" cover on THEIR insurance.

    Start over

    Youve even finished it by stating it was a DEFENCE!
    You cannot be slapdash in this.
    • celfighter
    • By celfighter 1st Nov 18, 3:47 PM
    • 82 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    celfighter
    nosferatu1001 Ive had to hand it all in now. Like I mentioned in a previous post, I had until 1pm today to get it done. The above IS a defence; my WS is in post #65
    I have to hope its enough. These documents needed to be handed in not later than 14 days before the court date. I am going on holiday now and return a few days before all this happens.
    sincerely...
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 1st Nov 18, 4:11 PM
    • 3,921 Posts
    • 4,720 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    The court clsoed at 4pm, so that was your deadline

    Why did you refile your defence? No document asks you to do that, and thatys why I was confused.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 2nd Nov 18, 2:48 AM
    • 63,875 Posts
    • 76,536 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    What did you actually submit as evidence (photos, documents, transcripts of cases?).

    If nothing, you have no evidence in! Hope you did provide evidence of some sort, it's not just about some words. Case law could be shoe-horned in with a skeleton argument a couple of days before the hearing but not photos now, so I hope you did something by way of evidence.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • celfighter
    • By celfighter 6th Nov 18, 1:52 PM
    • 82 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    celfighter
    I included plenty of photographs. Thanks for your help.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 6th Nov 18, 11:36 PM
    • 63,875 Posts
    • 76,536 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    OK, have a nice holiday!

    When you are back, a couple of days before the hearing, draw up a COSTS SCHEDULE and also take a wage slip with you or other proof of loss of leave/income, plus travel and parking to claim if you win.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • celfighter
    • By celfighter 10th Nov 18, 3:47 AM
    • 82 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    celfighter
    A few days ago I received an email from CEL telling me they wish to settle. Please view part of the email below.
    "
    In keeping with the Overriding Objective as set out in the CPR, we are we are willing to Settle the above Claim. If you wish to discuss this, please respond to our email, call us on 0870 919 55 77, or alternatively, provide us with a telephone number to contact you on. "

    "
    Surely this is an admission that they haven't got a leg to stand on?
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