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  • FIRST POST
    • fisherp123
    • By fisherp123 7th Jan 18, 7:59 PM
    • 40Posts
    • 6Thanks
    fisherp123
    Metro Inn, Walsall
    • #1
    • 7th Jan 18, 7:59 PM
    Metro Inn, Walsall 7th Jan 18 at 7:59 PM
    Hi Everyone. I hope you can help me. This story is a little long-winded. I'll try to be clear as I can.

    On 08/11/2017 I received a letter from ZZPS about an alleged parking offence (PCN), which took place on 25/07/2017. ZZPS is obviously the debt collection company. I have not received any other correspondence before this letter, no NTK.

    I responded to them by email, as the vehicle in question was registered at the wrong address.

    Your Client: Civil Enforcement Ltd
    PCN: xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Vehicle: xxxxxxxxxxx
    Location: Metro Inn, Birmingham Road, Walsall, WS5 3AB
    Issue Date: 27/07/2017
    Dear Sir/Madam,

    I refer to your Parking Charge Notice (“PCN”) Ref. xxxxxxxxxxxxx

    I confirm that at the time of this alleged incident, I was the vehicle’s keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definition under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“POFA 2012”).

    I Must also inform you that you must write to me at a different address; I no longer live at xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. Further correspondence should be sent to:-
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    Further:
    I received no Notice to Keeper at all and have no information about the issue.
    I require ZZPS to supply all photos and copies of all correspondence to me at xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    Shortly after this email, I received a letter stating that their computer records have now been updated and further correspondence will be sent to the correct address. They said that their client has the photos and I would not be getting any copies unless of litigation .

    This matter has now been passed along to QDR solicitors (Quantum Debt Recovery??) who has raised the outstanding balance and is threatening a CCJ.

    I am wondering how to respond to this matter. Can anyone advise me? I have read the MSE newbies thread, but template letters advise what to do before a solicitor gets involved. I wondered about using this template:

    Dear {name of IPC member - only IPC members for this version!!!}

    Re PCN number:

    I am the keeper of the vehicle and am aware of your purported 'parking charge'. The driver will not be identified. I require the following information so that I can make an informed decision:

    1. Who is the party that contracted with your company and are they the landowner?
    2. Is your charge based on damages for breach of contract? Answer yes or no.
    3. Please provide photos of the signs that you say were on site, which you contend formed a contract with the driver.
    4. Please provide all photographs taken of this vehicle.
    5. Please provide proof that the timing of any camera or timer used was synchronised with all other cameras and/or systems & machines.

    Do not send debt collector letters and do not add any costs, which would be a thinly-veiled attempt at 'double recovery'. I will not respond to debt collectors and to involve a third party would be a failure to mitigate your costs as well as deliberate and knowing misuse of my data.

    Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause (e.g. if you do not fully comply with the IPC Code of Practice in terms of signage at this site, as seems likely based on my research) please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me. I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle.

    I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

    Yours faithfully,
Page 2
    • fisherp123
    • By fisherp123 31st May 18, 8:55 AM
    • 40 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    fisherp123
    Thank you everyone for your comments and invaluable help. I have filled out my N244 form, and I am almost ready to submit this, along with photographic evidence and copies of emails going back and forth from the claimant. Here is my witness statement. Have I missed anything here?

    WITNESS STATEMENT.

    I am xxxxx and I am the Defendant in this matter.
    Recitals:
    !!!8226; My current address (since December 2015) is xxx.
    !!!8226; My Old address is xxx
    !!!8226; My parents address is xxx

    This my supporting Statement in support of my application dated xxx/xx/xx to:
    !!!8226; Set aside the Default Judgement dated April 2018 as it was not properly served at my current address;
    !!!8226; Order for the Claimant to pay the Defendant £255 as reimbursement for the set aside fee;
    !!!8226; Order for the original claim to be dismissed.


    1. Default Judgement

    1.1. I understand that the Claimant obtained a Default Judgement against me as the Defendant in April 2018. However, this claim form has not been served at my current address and I thus was not aware of the Default Judgement until 23 May 2018 when I was doing a routine check on my credit file.
    I understand that this Claim was served at MY OLD ADDRESS. However, I moved to a new address in December 2015.
    Confirmation of this will be provided at the set aside hearing, in the form of utility bills and a Council Tax bill from Walsall Council. The Defendant has at no time tried to avoid paying for any known debt, and was at all times there to be found by a simple trace. It is submitted that the Claimant should have taken those reasonable steps, and would have known or should have surmised that it was likely that the Defendant was not at the old address, given the length of time from the alleged parking charge and the fact that the Claimant was receiving no reply from the Defendant.

    Furthermore, the claimant was also sending out letters to me at my CURRENT ADDRESS, so I am very confused as to why the CCJ was issued to my OLD ADDRESS unless it was done so deliberately so I could not defend myself against it (see point 2.4 for more information.)

    This is a topical issue: I note that the Justice Minister the Rt Hon Sir Oliver Heald QC MP announced on the 23rd December 2016 a consultation and information campaign to help protect consumers from debt claims. The consultation will look at ways to better protect consumers - who are sent mail to inaccurate addresses and verify addresses again before a claim is sent. The Minister added "It cannot be right that people who are unaware of debts can see their lives and finances ruined by county court judgments. That in the digital age, we must ensure companies pursuing unpaid debts make every reasonable effort to contact individuals, rather than simply relying on a letter to an old address.

    Considering the above I was unable to defend this claim. I thus believe that the Default Judgment against me was issued incorrectly and should be set aside.


    1.2. I have also never received any previous documentation from the Claimant - A !!!8220;Notice to Keeper!!!8221; letter in this matter and I thus was never able to challenge the Claimant!!!8217;s claim.

    1.3. I believe the Claimant has behaved unreasonably in pursuing a claim against me without ensuring they held the Defendant!!!8217;s correct contact details. According to publicly available information my circumstances are far from being unique. The Claimant!!!8217;s persistent failure to use correct and current addresses results is an unnecessary burden for individuals and the justice system across the country.

    1.4. On the basis provided above I would suggest that the Claimant did not fulfil their duty to use the Defendant!!!8217;s current address when bringing the claim.

    1.5. Considering the above I was unable to defend this claim. I thus believe that the Default Judgement against me was issued incorrectly and thus should be set aside.

    2. Order dismissing the Claim

    2.1. I further believe that the original Claim by the Claimant has no merit and should thus be dismissed. I understand that the Claimant is a Parking Company which seeks to claim for !!!8220;Parking Charge Notices!!!8221; which the Claimant believes are due as a result of an alleged breach of contract for parking by a motorist.

    2.2. If the Claimant has obtained details of the vehicle for which the Defendant is the Registered Keeper, and used those details to make a claim for a !!!8220;Parking Charge Notice!!!8217;!!!8217;, I thus dispute the claim in its entirety as I do not know the wording of the contract nor do I know the means by which the contract was alleged to come into force.

    2.3. If the Claimant can evidence that the alleged incident relates to a vehicle for which the Defendant is the Registered Keeper, any Notice to Keeper served by the Claimant must comply with Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

    Otherwise, the Claimant is required to prove the driver of the vehicle they claim was involved in the alleged incident. I submit that the Claimant cannot provide such evidence and further submit that the Claimant does not include !!!8216;Protection of Freedoms Act 2012!!!8217; wording on the Parking Charge Notices they issue and therefore cannot hold the Defendant automatically liable for the alleged incident merely for being the Registered Keeper of a vehicle.

    2.4. A requirement of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 is that this any Notice to Keeper served by the Claimant must be served within 14 days of the date of the alleged incident. I have not received a Notice to Keeper document.

    * This is exactly the sort of abuse that Sir Oliver Heald pledged to end, with CCJ reform. *

    The first letter I received was from ZZPS relating to an unpaid PCN, dated 08/11/2017 (approx. 3.5 months after the alleged incident happened.) This was sent to my PARENTS ADDRESS. I promptly emailed ZZPS and asked them to update their records with my CURRENT ADDRESS (see attached email.)

    Since I have not received any documentation from the Claimant prior 08/11/2017, I submit the Claimant will not have complied with the requirements of the Act and thus cannot claim this charge against me as the Registered Keeper in any case.

    2.5 The Car Park

    2.5.1 After briefly visiting the car park after the alleged incident took place, I took photographic evidence of the car park and solitary warning sign.
    2.5.2 The sign is small and unremarkable. It is positioned in a place easily missed by motorists who may be entering the car park. I believe that the signs fails the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Clearly it was not seen by the driver, displayed in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers before they park.
    2.5.3 The car park is situated next to a very busy road and therefore any motorist would be primarily concerned with getting his/her vehicle off that main road and in to a safe area before looking for any terms and conditions for the car park. I attach photographs for your consideration.

    2.6 The claimant

    2.5.1 I further submit that the Claimant!!!8217;s claim is without merit due to substantial issues in law. This is for the following main reasons:
    2.5.2. Lack of Standing by Claimant: The Claimant is unlikely to be the landowner of the car park in question, and will have no proprietary interest in it. This means that the Claimant, as a matter of law, will have no locus standi to litigate in their own name. Any consideration will have been provided by the landholder, and only they would have been able sue for any damages or trespass.
    2.5.3. No Loss Suffered by Claimant: Their claim is presumably based on damages for alleged breach of contract. It is a fundamental principle of English Law that a party who suffers damages through breach of contract can only seek through court action to be put back in the same position as they would have been if the breach had not occurred. In order to do so, they must demonstrate their actual, or genuine, pre-estimate of loss. I submit that no loss has been suffered by the Claimant as a result of any alleged breaches of contract on the part of any motorist of the vehicle of which I am the Registered Keeper. I further submit that any loss to the landholder (which would be the only party able to claim such losses) would be at most a few pounds.
    2.5.4. Claimed charge is an Unenforceable Penalty: I further submit that the Parking Charge that the Claimant claimed, given it is not based on any loss suffered due to the alleged breach, is nothing but an unenforceable penalty.
    2.5.5. No contract with the claimant: Any contract must have offer, acceptance and consideration both ways. There would not have been consideration from the Claimant to the motorist; the fee for parking benefits the landowners, not the Claimant. Therefore, there is no consideration from the motorist to Civil Enforcement Ltd.
    2.5.6. On this basis I believe that the Claimant has not provided any reasonable cause of action and thus the claim should be dismissed in its entirety.
    2.5.7. In order to make informed decisions and statements in my defence as keeper of the vehicle, I will require copies of all paperwork and pictures of all signs from the Claimant.

    Statement of Truth:
    I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 31st May 18, 9:44 AM
    • 3,285 Posts
    • 2,230 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    You have a random dangling "2.6 The Claimant" right in the middle of 2.5.3 and then it switches to 2.5.1.

    I believe that GPEOL (genuine pre-estimate of loss) has not been in use for some time. Search the forum using GPEOL as a search term.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 31st May 18, 10:41 AM
    • 10,239 Posts
    • 10,134 Thanks
    The Deep
    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 31st May 18, 7:43 PM
    • 62,736 Posts
    • 75,665 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    GPEOL has no place at all in a parking PCN defence or Witness Statement.
    • fisherp123
    • By fisherp123 30th Jul 18, 9:45 AM
    • 40 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    fisherp123
    its court day today; I will let you know how it turns out. Thank you to everyone who helped me.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 30th Jul 18, 11:32 AM
    • 19,731 Posts
    • 31,211 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    its court day today; I will let you know how it turns out. Thank you to everyone who helped me.
    Originally posted by fisherp123
    Very best of luck. Yes please, do come back and update us on the result.
    The fact that I have commented on your thread does not mean I have become your personal adviser. A long list of subsequent questions addressed for my personal attention is unlikely to receive a reply.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 30th Jul 18, 11:44 AM
    • 3,677 Posts
    • 4,506 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Best of luck!
    Dont forget to ask for costs!
    • fisherp123
    • By fisherp123 1st Aug 18, 1:15 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    fisherp123
    Ok, so I am really rather shocked. The decision to have the Judgement set aside has been adjourned for 2 weeks. I have been asked to prepare a defense of the alleged incident.

    I cannot believe it. The claimant didn't bother to turn up.
    I told the judge that all my defense was already documented and presented to him. He said he wants a more distilled document with a defense detail.

    I told him that firstly the claimant has yet identify who was driving the vehicle, and that it is simply not ok to serve a judgement against the registered keeper of the vehicle. The judge said 'that may form part of your defense.'

    The fact that I had no NTK in the first place didn't seem to worry the judge.

    I did in fact have a lwttwrbfrom QDR threatening county court proceedings but I thought this letter was all part of their threats. I was looking for a letter telling me when the court date would be so I could turn up and defend myself accordingly.

    Anyway, I now have 2 weeks to prepare my defense. It might be as simple as saying I was the registered keeper and not the driver of the vehicle.

    I will need to prepare some detail about the prominence (or lack of it) of the car park sign, I guess.

    Is there anything else I should do now?

    I have been told to send copies of my defense to the court and to claimant within the next 2 weeks.
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 1st Aug 18, 1:49 PM
    • 3,285 Posts
    • 2,230 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    Is there anything else I should do now?
    Originally posted by fisherp123
    Learn how to spell DEFENCE?
    • fisherp123
    • By fisherp123 2nd Aug 18, 2:26 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    fisherp123
    Yes. Thanks for that Kirk !!!55357;!!!56397;
    • fisherp123
    • By fisherp123 4th Aug 18, 11:36 AM
    • 40 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    fisherp123
    Can anybody offer any useful advice at this point? I am to prepare a distilled defence and submit within 7 days.
    Thank you.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 4th Aug 18, 12:26 PM
    • 19,731 Posts
    • 31,211 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Can anybody offer any useful advice at this point? I am to prepare a distilled defence and submit within 7 days.
    Thank you.
    Originally posted by fisherp123
    Have a look at this thread to see if it helps.

    Initially a 'spray & pray' (© Iamemanresu) rambling defence cut down to size by experienced small claims court contributor 'bargepole' in post #15.

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=74601386#post74601386
    The fact that I have commented on your thread does not mean I have become your personal adviser. A long list of subsequent questions addressed for my personal attention is unlikely to receive a reply.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 4th Aug 18, 1:13 PM
    • 3,285 Posts
    • 2,230 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    Yes. Thanks for that Kirk !!!
    Originally posted by fisherp123
    I suppose that was a sarcastic remark to counter my assumed sarcastic remark - in which case, I probably deserved it - however my point is that you have to prepare and submit a defence based on fact, legal argument and sound reasoning. This would not be helped if you (in my opinion) spelled the first word of your defence incorrectly. Have a look at the thread you've been pointed at and read it through several times, adapt it to suit your situation/position and check it thoroughly for spelling and grammatical errors, then post it on here for critique by regulars. Bear in mind it is holiday season, the forum is full of posts and a few regulars are away so leave plenty of time so as not to miss deadlines.
    • fisherp123
    • By fisherp123 4th Aug 18, 5:22 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    fisherp123
    Thank you. I'll be back soon with my revised document.
    • fisherp123
    • By fisherp123 7th Aug 18, 1:50 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    fisherp123
    It seems like this matter is getting worse by the minute. I have until 15th August to file my defence. I was kindly referred to a link by Umkomaas, https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=74601386#post74601386

    The thing is, part of this post refers to the content on Claim Form N1.
    The thing is, I have never seen MY N1 (or NTK for that matter). It would have presumably been filed to my old address. I have never seen this claim form, and I have no idea what the content of it may be.

    I have tried contacting the county court and explained the situation.
    They have no record of the N1 form, as it would of been filled elsewhere. They are attempting to ask for a copy of it from the Claimant!

    I have also been advised to contact Citizens Advice, so that they can tell me how to write a letter to the county court. I am getting really frustrated with all this. I am having to wait and wait and time is running out. Can anyone advise me what to do with this next?
    • fisherp123
    • By fisherp123 8th Aug 18, 10:01 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    fisherp123
    Please see the link provided below.
    I had to post a picture on FB of the letter I received from the court. In it I asked what the the particulars of the claim form N1 were from the claimant.
    Can anyone see how I may be able to defend myself against this?

    http://i68.tinypic.com/152j7a1.jpg
    Last edited by fisherp123; 08-08-2018 at 10:51 PM.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 8th Aug 18, 10:39 PM
    • 9,805 Posts
    • 10,147 Thanks
    KeithP
    So you now have the Particulars of Claim. That's good.

    What isn't quite so good is that the whole world now knows your full name from your Facebook link.

    Maybe host that pic somewhere like tinypic.
    .
    • fisherp123
    • By fisherp123 8th Aug 18, 10:53 PM
    • 40 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    fisherp123
    Changed! Thank you. I had no hosting and didn't know about this.
    What can I do about the wording on N1 Form?
    Thanks and Regards
    P.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 8th Aug 18, 11:10 PM
    • 9,805 Posts
    • 10,147 Thanks
    KeithP
    The link in post #35 is a very good Defence.

    In that post you seem concerned about the 'content of form N1'.
    That is only referring to the Particulars of Claim - which you now have.
    Last edited by KeithP; 08-08-2018 at 11:16 PM.
    .
    • fisherp123
    • By fisherp123 9th Aug 18, 8:36 AM
    • 40 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    fisherp123
    Thanks Kieth, here is an image of the sign at the carpark.
    http://i65.tinypic.com/1zwovg7.jpg

    The link from post #35 picks apart the claimants points on N1, in which the driver was authorised to park there anyway I believe.

    I am not sure how this may relate to my case, at the Metro Inn.
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