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  • FIRST POST
    • James_N
    • By James_N 7th Jan 18, 7:28 PM
    • 998Posts
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    James_N
    Farmers' tractors / tractor + trailer combo
    • #1
    • 7th Jan 18, 7:28 PM
    Farmers' tractors / tractor + trailer combo 7th Jan 18 at 7:28 PM
    Can anyone give general advice on the following questions. The scenario is several dozen tractor + trailer movements a day between two locations along a narrow country road.

    1. Where a farmer has access to remote buildings across his own land, but chooses to exclusively use the narrow road instead.

    2. Where (presumably) red diesel is being used

    3. Where a farmer chooses to locate stock remotely from the main holding rather than near to his own dwelling and his own nearer buildings

    4. Where the distance travelled is greater than 2 miles one way on each occasion.
    Under no circumstances may any part of my postings be used, quoted, repeated, transferred or published by any third party in ANY medium outside of this website without express written permission. Thank you.
Page 2
    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 7th Jan 18, 8:42 PM
    • 1,579 Posts
    • 1,013 Thanks
    AndyMc.....
    Yeah, I saw that too. Thus the questions.
    Originally posted by James_N
    The real question is why?
    • James_N
    • By James_N 7th Jan 18, 8:52 PM
    • 998 Posts
    • 914 Thanks
    James_N
    Summary
    Thank you for the helpful replies. As for the others .. well, bless.

    What we have is:

    1. legal use on the road of the vehicles in question for clear agricultural purposes
    2. no plates on the various trailers - but that's hardly a matter anyone would seriously be interested in unless there were other issues
    3. choosing the road over farm tracks - his choice - no issue here
    4. number of vehicle movements per day - not resolved but probably no-one would get involved.
    5 Use of red diesel over 1.5 km between sites - being broken on a very regular basis according to the HMRC site (Crown Oil contradicts / obscures this).

    The question is - is it wise to antagonise a person who is already on a mission to wind up another person (not me) by placing his stock here (smell / noise). Yes we are dealing with a individual on a mission to inconvenience another person on purpose - again, it's not me.

    Where do I and about 20 others come into this? - his heavy machinery going past all day every day several times an hour while the stock is off the fields.
    Under no circumstances may any part of my postings be used, quoted, repeated, transferred or published by any third party in ANY medium outside of this website without express written permission. Thank you.
    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 7th Jan 18, 9:03 PM
    • 1,579 Posts
    • 1,013 Thanks
    AndyMc.....
    Thank you for the helpful replies. As for the others .. well, bless.

    What we have is:

    1. legal use on the road of the vehicles in question for clear agricultural purposes
    2. no plates on the various trailers - but that's hardly a matter anyone would seriously be interested in unless there were other issues
    3. choosing the road over farm tracks - his choice - no issue here
    4. number of vehicle movements per day - not resolved but probably no-one would get involved.Surely if he’s operating within the law he can make as many movements as he likes.
    5 Use of red diesel over 1.5 km between sites - being broken on a very regular basis according to the HMRC site (Crown Oil contradicts / obscures this).Are you sure you’re not confusing yourself with the movement of plant between private premises.

    The question is - is it wise to antagonise a person who is already on a mission to wind up another person (not me) by placing his stock here (smell / noise). Yes we are dealing with a individual on a mission to inconvenience another person on purpose - again, it's not me.

    Where do I and about 20 others come into this? - his heavy machinery going past all day every day several times an hour while the stock is off the fields.
    Originally posted by James_N
    Still can’t see what he’s doing wrong.
    • James_N
    • By James_N 7th Jan 18, 9:08 PM
    • 998 Posts
    • 914 Thanks
    James_N
    two such areas
    Still can’t see what he’s doing wrong.
    Originally posted by AndyMc.....
    what HMRC say is "two such areas" - and these are specifically his registered farm address and main buildings and the outlying premises he is accessing. What counts?

    I think a CASE exists for abuse of red diesel regulations, the point is what's the tipping point between getting involved and putting up with it?
    Under no circumstances may any part of my postings be used, quoted, repeated, transferred or published by any third party in ANY medium outside of this website without express written permission. Thank you.
    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 7th Jan 18, 9:11 PM
    • 1,579 Posts
    • 1,013 Thanks
    AndyMc.....
    what HMRC say is "two such areas" - and these are specifically his registered farm address and main buildings and the outlying premises he is accessing. What counts?

    I think a CASE exists for abuse of red diesel regulations, the point is what's the tipping point between getting involved and putting up with it?
    Originally posted by James_N
    Well for starters you don’t know what fuel he’s running on.
    • unforeseen
    • By unforeseen 7th Jan 18, 9:19 PM
    • 2,664 Posts
    • 3,414 Thanks
    unforeseen
    The vehicles you are talking about are excepted under para 8.8 of Excise Notice 75.
    Tractors are excepted vehicles under section 8.3 which makes no such limitations
    Last edited by unforeseen; 07-01-2018 at 9:21 PM.
    • MX5huggy
    • By MX5huggy 7th Jan 18, 9:24 PM
    • 4,117 Posts
    • 2,689 Thanks
    MX5huggy
    My reading of it is the 1.5k rule is for some vehicle that is not a tractor say a land rover pulling a sheep trailer. But the earlier paragraph

    !!!8220;where the vehicle is a tractor and it is designed and constructed primarily for off-road use and its use on a public road is for agricultural purposes!!!8221;

    means a tractor can go as far as it likes with red in the tank as long as it!!!8217;s agricultural purposes.
    • James_N
    • By James_N 7th Jan 18, 9:32 PM
    • 998 Posts
    • 914 Thanks
    James_N
    My reading of it is the 1.5k rule is for some vehicle that is not a tractor say a land rover pulling a sheep trailer. But the earlier paragraph

    “where the vehicle is a tractor and it is designed and constructed primarily for off-road use and its use on a public road is for agricultural purposes”

    means a tractor can go as far as it likes with red in the tank as long as it’s agricultural purposes.
    Originally posted by MX5huggy
    Right - I see. That means a tractor can go any distance, but not the landrover (say) running on red. Scuppers the potential complaint somewhat then.
    Under no circumstances may any part of my postings be used, quoted, repeated, transferred or published by any third party in ANY medium outside of this website without express written permission. Thank you.
    • Gloomendoom
    • By Gloomendoom 7th Jan 18, 9:35 PM
    • 14,154 Posts
    • 18,743 Thanks
    Gloomendoom
    My reading of it is the 1.5k rule is for some vehicle that is not a tractor say a land rover pulling a sheep trailer. But the earlier paragraph

    “where the vehicle is a tractor and it is designed and constructed primarily for off-road use and its use on a public road is for agricultural purposes”

    means a tractor can go as far as it likes with red in the tank as long as it’s agricultural purposes.
    Originally posted by MX5huggy
    A friend of mine is a farmer with several farms probably 15 miles apart. He regularly moves machinery between them on public roads using red diesel.
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” - Mark Twain
    • unforeseen
    • By unforeseen 7th Jan 18, 9:39 PM
    • 2,664 Posts
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    unforeseen
    Land rovers are maybe a bad example because it tends to be the all purpose vehicle that does a lot of public road use so wouldn't normally use red.

    More like quad bikes which would just need public roads to go from one field to another.

    In my area the farms club together at harvest time and help each other so not unheard of to be stuck behind a line of tractors for 3 or 4 miles as they move from one farm to the next..
    • Car 54
    • By Car 54 7th Jan 18, 10:14 PM
    • 3,031 Posts
    • 1,903 Thanks
    Car 54
    Thanks - when I need grammar help, I will ask for it.
    Originally posted by James_N
    But you seem to, and haven't.
    • DoaM
    • By DoaM 7th Jan 18, 10:24 PM
    • 4,399 Posts
    • 4,433 Thanks
    DoaM
    What is even funnier is people with nothing better to do than be difficult or critical of an evening.

    Try being constructive could you?
    Originally posted by James_N
    Welcome to the real world of public forums ... people can post what they like as long as they're posting within the forum rules.

    Your forum signature is nonsense, and pointing that out is a reasonable response.
    Diary of a madman
    Walk the line again today
    Entries of confusion
    Dear diary, I'm here to stay
    • forgotmyname
    • By forgotmyname 7th Jan 18, 11:46 PM
    • 27,221 Posts
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    forgotmyname
    He even sent me a PM saying that he puts it to prevent parking companies from using it against him..

    My answer was he is deluded if he thinks a publicly viewable forum cannot be copy and pasted.
    Punctuation, Spelling and Grammar will be used sparingly. Due to rising costs of inflation.

    My contribution to MSE. Other contributions will only be used if they cost me nothing.

    Due to me being a tight git.
    • loskie
    • By loskie 8th Jan 18, 7:42 AM
    • 1,294 Posts
    • 770 Thanks
    loskie
    NIMBYism at its finest.
    • enjoyyourshoes
    • By enjoyyourshoes 8th Jan 18, 8:09 AM
    • 1,061 Posts
    • 1,302 Thanks
    enjoyyourshoes
    Its funny the OP asking such questions.

    I guess you have too look beyond what they are asking and ask yourself, why are they asking such technical questions about a tractor driving between different fields?

    Are they discriminatory about Farmers, Tractors , trailers or any combination utilising a road?

    One can only speculate !
    Debt is a symptom, solve the problem.
    • Herzlos
    • By Herzlos 8th Jan 18, 8:55 AM
    • 7,344 Posts
    • 6,626 Thanks
    Herzlos
    I think legally tractors don't need to be registered if they are only moving between sites, I remember a 10 mile/year limit being mentioned but I'm not sure where that comes from. It's entirely unenforceable though.

    If the farmer is causing a nuisance / blocking roads / leaving debris everywhere, then by all means have a chat with the local constabulary, otherwise there's probably better things to get upset about.

    The 1.5km limit for red diesel applies to road vehicles only. If you're using a car/van/etc on a farm you can use red diesel, but if you're caught with red diesel more than 1.5km from the farm you're in serious trouble for tax evasion. The restriction doesn't apply to specific farm equipment - tractors, harvesters etc; you're not going to be taking a tractor to the office or the shops on red diesel to save money - the hassle, speed and massive fuel consumption would defeat the point.
    • loskie
    • By loskie 8th Jan 18, 2:17 PM
    • 1,294 Posts
    • 770 Thanks
    loskie
    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/agricultural-vehicle-licences-and-fuel

    dont know why you are asking here instead of just using google.
    • Mr Farmer
    • By Mr Farmer 9th Jan 18, 1:35 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Mr Farmer
    You seem to be looking for a fight with this farmer. Do you have a personal vendetta against him perhaps?

    What I can do is explain a bit about our industry which might answer some of the questions for those that are really interested.

    So firstly tractors on roads. The law is clear on conditions of vehicles and roadworthiness, maximum weights, braking efficiency and licensing etc. All of which can be found on the gov link in this thread as already posted. However a point to add is that majority of farmers know if you have a tailback of cars behind you, you pull in when safe to do so to allow the vehicles to pass. There have been instances where tractor drivers have been prosecuted for not doing this.

    With regards to us using the roads then we have as much right as your car, a hgv, a motorbike, a horse, a pushbike or a walker.

    Why are the animals away from the main holding? Well lots of reasons such as stocking rates where by you can only have a certain number of livestock per acre so if there are not enough acres at the main farm you put your animals elsewhere. Another reason is supermarkets because they drive down food prices to keep YOU happy. This means farmers can’t charge what they need to, to make a small farm viable. Therefore farms have to be bigger which means renting land further afield from the main holding in order to reduce costs as the more animals/crops they produce the more they can spread their costs thus reducing the sale price of the produce YOU subsequently buy from the supermarket.

    ‘Darling Buds Of May’ farming doesn’t exist I’m afraid, so if you do not like it then of course you could always move into a town centre where you won’t have to contend with farmers and tractors but instead much greater congestion of cars and hgv’s.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 9th Jan 18, 8:46 AM
    • 17,602 Posts
    • 15,968 Thanks
    AdrianC
    However a point to add is that majority of farmers know if you have a tailback of cars behind you, you pull in when safe to do so to allow the vehicles to pass. There have been instances where tractor drivers have been prosecuted for not doing this.
    Originally posted by Mr Farmer
    Which is, of course, no different to any other road user... Highway code 169.
    • Ectophile
    • By Ectophile 9th Jan 18, 11:47 PM
    • 3,152 Posts
    • 2,032 Thanks
    Ectophile
    What's even funnier is that he has no copyright whatsoever regarding whatever he posts here ... copyright actually belongs to MSE.
    Originally posted by DoaM
    Somebody else hasn't read the Terms and Conditions either:
    "You own any copyright in the text that you post to our Forum".

    MSE does not want to be held legally responsible for something that some random person has decided to post to their forum.
    Last edited by Ectophile; 09-01-2018 at 11:47 PM. Reason: Typo
    If it sticks, force it.
    If it breaks, well it wasn't working right anyway.
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