Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • Supersonos
    • By Supersonos 6th Jan 18, 9:24 AM
    • 76Posts
    • 35Thanks
    Supersonos
    If a company delivers, are they obliged to collect?
    • #1
    • 6th Jan 18, 9:24 AM
    If a company delivers, are they obliged to collect? 6th Jan 18 at 9:24 AM
    Let's say I order something online that needs specialised delivery - a couple of tonnes of gravel for example.

    The company offers free delivery and turns up with their lorry and its special hydraulic arm to lower the ton bags of gravel onto my driveway.

    Then, for whatever reason, I want to return it (maybe it's the wrong type of gravel or I've ordered too much or something) and the company agrees I can do so to get a refund. Clearly I can't just pop a couple of tonnes of gravel in the post and I don't have the necessary lorry to return it to them.

    Does the trader have some sort of legal obligation to collect the gravel? Or is it up to me to obtain an HGV licence and hire a lorry? Or find some third party with the necessary expertise and tools to return the gravel?
    Last edited by Supersonos; 06-01-2018 at 9:27 AM.
Page 3
    • powerful_Rogue
    • By powerful_Rogue 7th Jan 18, 4:58 PM
    • 3,398 Posts
    • 4,972 Thanks
    powerful_Rogue
    Because the goods can't be returned by normal post, they were under an obligation to tell you how much it would cost to return the goods before you were bound by the contract. They don't seem to have done this therefore they would be liable for the return costs.

    Of course getting them to agree that they're liable is another matter.
    Originally posted by unholyangel
    Exactly what I meant in my last post. Consumers having far too many rights.
    • Supersonos
    • By Supersonos 7th Jan 18, 5:01 PM
    • 76 Posts
    • 35 Thanks
    Supersonos
    He is only forced to offer a refund on return, nothing more in this situation.



    You chose to buy under these circumstances - a return isn't impossible by the customer, it's just that it's expensive..... The obvious and most sensible thing would to have asked for a sample or to visit and view in person before you order.
    Originally posted by theonlywayisup
    I'm obviously just seeing this situation very one-sided (my side, obviously). Maybe I'm just being unreasonable.

    Well, the gravel is listed on our local FaceBook page for free. Someone will take it.

    I still don't see how the trader can lawfully offer a refund that I can't actually get - I will be worse off if I get the refund. I pondered the gravel and decided to make the purchase based on that refund offer. As the total was £160 and that included delivery, I assumed the cost of returning it would be less than £160 - not £720.
    • Hermione Granger
    • By Hermione Granger 7th Jan 18, 5:26 PM
    • 849 Posts
    • 1,326 Thanks
    Hermione Granger
    Has the trader put unrealistic terms on or is he complying with the Consumer Rights Act?
    Originally posted by AndyMc.....
    The consumer rights act is irrelevant in the case in hand as this piece of legislation isn't the one that allows a consumer to return most goods when purchased at a distance.
    That is covered by the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations.





    • custardy
    • By custardy 7th Jan 18, 5:29 PM
    • 33,551 Posts
    • 28,509 Thanks
    custardy
    I'm obviously just seeing this situation very one-sided (my side, obviously). Maybe I'm just being unreasonable.

    Well, the gravel is listed on our local FaceBook page for free. Someone will take it.

    I still don't see how the trader can lawfully offer a refund that I can't actually get - I will be worse off if I get the refund. I pondered the gravel and decided to make the purchase based on that refund offer. As the total was £160 and that included delivery, I assumed the cost of returning it would be less than £160 - not £720.
    Originally posted by Supersonos
    I assume you still need gravel? Have you not thought to take my advice and offer the seller a deal on repurchase of the correct gravel/collect the gravel you have?
    You are £160 down,so any deal that mitigates that and gets you what you need is surely better?
    FYI I wouldnt by 2 tons of gravel assuming I could have a look at it and see if it suited.
    • Hermione Granger
    • By Hermione Granger 7th Jan 18, 5:29 PM
    • 849 Posts
    • 1,326 Thanks
    Hermione Granger
    I still don't see how the trader can lawfully offer a refund that I can't actually get - I will be worse off if I get the refund
    Originally posted by Supersonos
    Because they are complying with the law that requires them to offer this refund. Nothing more, nothing less.
    Just because you can't get the goods returned to the trader for an amount that makes the return worthwhile isn't the fault of the trader.
    If anything, it's the fault of those who wrote the legislation for not making allowances for this sort of occurrence.
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 7th Jan 18, 6:06 PM
    • 20,342 Posts
    • 16,116 Thanks
    agrinnall
    Please read the whole thread if you're going to comment.

    I am willing to find and pay for a haulier, but I can't find one what will do the job because I'm not trade.

    I really don't understand why everyone is so on the side of the trader. I'm happy to foot the bill, but it currently appears to be impossible for me to actually return the gravel.

    How can a trader agree to offer a refund if it's not possible for the consumer to return the goods?
    Originally posted by Supersonos
    Its a joke, as indicated by the smiley face. I guess you've got yourself so worked up about this that you have lost your sense of humour.
    • Supersonos
    • By Supersonos 7th Jan 18, 7:04 PM
    • 76 Posts
    • 35 Thanks
    Supersonos
    Because the goods can't be returned by normal post, they were under an obligation to tell you how much it would cost to return the goods before you were bound by the contract. They don't seem to have done this therefore they would be liable for the return costs.

    Of course getting them to agree that they're liable is another matter.
    Originally posted by unholyangel
    THANK YOU.

    I'm not looking to go marching back to the company telling them they've done something wrong (frankly, the way they've dealt with me, I'll just never go back there). I'm happy to accept my mistake.

    But I knew it didn't seem right. I couldn't think of a better example, but it just didn't seem fair that a company could use their own specialised equipment to deliver and then leave me in the lurch when I wanted to return it.

    It felt like he was waving my £160 in one hand and giving me the finger with the other.
    • Supersonos
    • By Supersonos 7th Jan 18, 7:15 PM
    • 76 Posts
    • 35 Thanks
    Supersonos
    The consumer rights act is irrelevant in the case in hand as this piece of legislation isn't the one that allows a consumer to return most goods when purchased at a distance.
    That is covered by the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations.
    Originally posted by Hermione Granger
    Would you mind explaining this further - in layman's terms? I always thought it was the consumer rights act (which has replaced the distance selling regulations if I'm correct?) that talked about consumers rights in returning goods.

    I've never even heard of the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations.

    EDIT - not to worry, I've just found this - https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/i-want-to-return-something-bought-online.

    If I've read things correctly, the Consumer Rights Act would apply if the goods were not as described, faulty or not of satisfactory quality?
    Last edited by Supersonos; 07-01-2018 at 7:30 PM.
    • Supersonos
    • By Supersonos 7th Jan 18, 7:28 PM
    • 76 Posts
    • 35 Thanks
    Supersonos
    I assume you still need gravel? Have you not thought to take my advice and offer the seller a deal on repurchase of the correct gravel/collect the gravel you have?
    You are £160 down,so any deal that mitigates that and gets you what you need is surely better?
    FYI I wouldnt by 2 tons of gravel assuming I could have a look at it and see if it suited.
    Originally posted by custardy
    Because

    a) After this whole thing and the way the seller has been with me, I don't really want to have any more to do with them, and

    b) Because, as unholyangel has pointed out, they should bear the costs after all.
    • Supersonos
    • By Supersonos 7th Jan 18, 7:29 PM
    • 76 Posts
    • 35 Thanks
    Supersonos
    Its a joke, as indicated by the smiley face. I guess you've got yourself so worked up about this that you have lost your sense of humour.
    Originally posted by agrinnall
    That would indeed appear to be the case.
    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 7th Jan 18, 7:40 PM
    • 1,579 Posts
    • 1,013 Thanks
    AndyMc.....
    Because the goods can't be returned by normal post, they were under an obligation to tell you how much it would cost to return the goods before you were bound by the contract. They don't seem to have done this therefore they would be liable for the return costs.

    Of course getting them to agree that they're liable is another matter.
    Originally posted by unholyangel
    Am I missing something there? It states they are responsible for the cost of the return, where does it state the cost of return must be supplied?

    Iím sure such information was provided on the online terms and conditions.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 7th Jan 18, 8:23 PM
    • 11,100 Posts
    • 7,920 Thanks
    neilmcl
    So what if the gravel was incorrect? What if the trader made a mistake? Could they still insist I return it to them before they sent out the correct order?
    Originally posted by Supersonos
    You had the answer to this in your first set of replies!
    • shaun from Africa
    • By shaun from Africa 7th Jan 18, 8:46 PM
    • 10,044 Posts
    • 11,314 Thanks
    shaun from Africa
    Am I missing something there? It states they are responsible for the cost of the return, where does it state the cost of return must be supplied?

    Iím sure such information was provided on the online terms and conditions.
    Originally posted by AndyMc.....
    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/13/made

    Information to be provided before making a distance contract
    13.ó(1) Before the consumer is bound by a distance contract, the traderó

    (a) must give or make available to the consumer the information listed in Schedule 2 in a clear and comprehensible manner, and in a way appropriate to the means of distance communication used,
    Schedule 2
    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/schedule/2/made

    (m) where applicable, that the consumer will have to bear the cost of returning the goods in case of cancellation and, for distance contracts, if the goods, by their nature, cannot normally be returned by post, the cost of returning the goods;
    • LABMAN
    • By LABMAN 7th Jan 18, 8:53 PM
    • 836 Posts
    • 1,421 Thanks
    LABMAN
    How can the seller know how the buyer is going to return goods to be able to cost it. The seller doesn't get to chose how goods are returned.
    • shaun from Africa
    • By shaun from Africa 7th Jan 18, 9:01 PM
    • 10,044 Posts
    • 11,314 Thanks
    shaun from Africa
    How can the seller know how the buyer is going to return goods to be able to cost it. The seller doesn't get to chose how goods are returned.
    Originally posted by LABMAN
    As far as the legislation is concerned, it doesn't matter what the seller knows about the buyer's intentions.
    There are very few ways to transport a bulk bag of aggregate that probably weighs close to a ton so it shouldn't be difficult for the seller to be able to give a rough estimate of the return cost especially as they will be dealing with the loading and delivery of these products all the time.
    Even if they were to give the estimated cost from only one method (such as a private haulage company), this would satisfy their obligations under the CCR's.
    • camelot1971
    • By camelot1971 7th Jan 18, 9:15 PM
    • 815 Posts
    • 1,222 Thanks
    camelot1971
    Which company did you buy the gravel from?
    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 7th Jan 18, 9:16 PM
    • 1,579 Posts
    • 1,013 Thanks
    AndyMc.....
    Iím still missing it, it says reasonabl costs. Not the seller must inform them of the cost before they purchase.
    • Supersonos
    • By Supersonos 7th Jan 18, 9:33 PM
    • 76 Posts
    • 35 Thanks
    Supersonos
    Which company did you buy the gravel from?
    Originally posted by camelot1971
    I bought it from a company advertising through eBay (big mistake).

    On the listing it says "Returns:14 days refund, buyer pays return postage | See details"

    The details are here: http://pages.ebay.co.uk/safetycentre/rights.html#change

    I can't find anywhere that says what happens when you change your mind but can't pop it in the post.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 7th Jan 18, 10:05 PM
    • 12,439 Posts
    • 9,740 Thanks
    unholyangel
    Iím still missing it, it says reasonabl costs. Not the seller must inform them of the cost before they purchase.
    Originally posted by AndyMc.....
    What says reasonable costs?

    Read what both shaun & I quoted. It says the information needs to be provided before the consumer is bound by the contract (ie before it is formed/entered into).

    Also to note that the retailer must provide confirmation in a durable medium (in addition to providing the information before the consumer is bound) no later than when the goods are delivered. Websites are not durable.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 7th Jan 18, 10:15 PM
    • 12,439 Posts
    • 9,740 Thanks
    unholyangel
    Exactly what I meant in my last post. Consumers having far too many rights.
    Originally posted by powerful_Rogue
    If traders don't like it, they can always comply with their legal obligations which would then remove that right from the consumer.

    Its essentially a liability of their own making.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

87Posts Today

1,937Users online

Martin's Twitter