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  • FIRST POST
    • Mareczek
    • By Mareczek 6th Jan 18, 1:48 AM
    • 17Posts
    • 3Thanks
    Mareczek
    Help! MONEY CLAIM FROM BW LEGAL AFTER 5 YEARS 4 MONTHS
    • #1
    • 6th Jan 18, 1:48 AM
    Help! MONEY CLAIM FROM BW LEGAL AFTER 5 YEARS 4 MONTHS 6th Jan 18 at 1:48 AM
    Hi

    I would be very grateful for any advice on how to deal with an MCOL relating to a spurious 'parking charge' on 22 August 2012.

    My daughter has received a set of claim forms today (5 January 2018) from the County Court Business Centre in Northampton, initiated by BW Legal Services on behalf of Excel Parking Services.

    She appealed against the PCN promptly in 2012, on the grounds that she had never ever parked her car in The Square, Chorlton, Manchester. On the date concerned she did drive onto the car park with her late grandmother as a passenger, hoping to find a disabled space, as her grandmother was an elderly (88 years) wheelchair user. There were no disabled spaces available, so she left the car park immediately via the other entrance / exit.

    Some time later after having had lunch elsewhere in Manchester, she returned to The Square Car Park via the entrance / exit she had previously departed from, as they wished to visit Boots the Chemist in the precinct. Again, there were no disabled spaces available, so she promptly left the car park via the opposite entrance / exit to the one she had just arrived in.

    She explained all this in writing as per the firm's policy, and pointed out that if she had parked her vehicle in that car park, surely there must be photographic evidence of that. Of course there was no photographic evidence of her vehicle being parked in the car park. She did ask how could she be charged for parking if she could not park, as there were no disabled spaces available, and she left the car park immediately on establishing that. Excel did not respond to that query, but asked her to produce evidence that she had been somewhere else, at the time they asserted she was parked in the car park. At that point I got involved, and asked her to ignore any further communications from Excel.

    She did not hear any more from anyone until last year, when she received several threatening phone calls from BW Legal (I don't know how they got her number), and a number of threatening letters from BW Legal. None of the original paperwork from over 5 years ago is available, nor are the more recent two letters from BW Legal (binned).

    My daughter is a highly qualified and dedicated school teacher, and has never had any convictions or fines, motoring or otherwise. She is an innocent in these matters, and doesn't deserve this hassle.

    BW Legal are claiming 100.00 PCN, interest of 39.22, 'contractual costs pursuant to PCN terms and conditions' of 54.00. In addition there is a 25.00 Court Fee, and Legal Representative's costs of 50.00. Total 268.22.

    Sorry for the length of this saga. This event happened 5 years 4 months ago.

    Thank You
Page 2
    • Mareczek
    • By Mareczek 7th Jan 18, 11:04 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Mareczek
    Any views on a counter claim for discrimination by harassment of a Disabled Person's Carer, or am I trying to have my cake and eat it?

    This seems to be an option on the AOS.

    Thanks
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 7th Jan 18, 11:24 PM
    • 58,415 Posts
    • 71,931 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Potentially, yes, and I might be so bold as to suggest 750 or even 1000!

    Bear in mind that it may be difficult under the Equality Act, because claims under that Act must be filed (usually) ''within the period of 6 months starting with the date of the act to which the claim relates''. Although there is the caveat in the legislation ''or such other period as the county court thinks just and equitable.''

    She could argue, however, that the 'act to which the claim relates' is continuous and includes the 2017 decision not to cancel the charge and to proceed to court. So you could say (because some sections of the EA do have this statement):
    (a)conduct extending over a period is to be treated as done at the end of the period;
    (b)failure to do something is to be treated as occurring when the person in question decided on it.*

    * i.e. failure to cancel the charge when they decided to take this meritless claim to court, which has caused harassment of a carer in a case where in 2012, the Claimant 'knew or should have known' (from the appeal made, assuming she DID tell them about the disability issue as well as the fact it was a double visit?) that the incident related to a driver with a mobility impaired passenger, looking for a disabled bay, failing to find one and leaving.

    Remember you can contact the Equality Advisory and Support Service (EASS):

    http://www.equalityadvisoryservice.com/app/about/session/L3RpbWUvMTUxNTM2NjUzMi9zaWQvQ19keUZiQ24%3D

    And in some cases the Equality and Human Rights Commission (see the EHRC website) may occasionally assist in bringing proceedings.

    A very useful page is this one from the British Stammering Association:

    http://www.stammeringlaw.org.uk/services/complaints.htm

    I find that page really helpful, hope you can glean some grounds for counterclaim from it and understand your 'burden of proof' which is quite high, but certainly possible to meet.

    Remedies
    Compensatory payment
    Where there is a breach of the Equality Act, the main legal remedy is money compensation. Most or all of the compensation is normally for 'injury to feelings' (s.119(4) EqA).

    The court in Purves v Joydisk Ltd (2003) said that 750 was the least that might nowadays be awarded. The former Disability Rights Commission said (on its website and in its June 2003 Legal Bulletin linked below) that awards usually ranged from 1000 upwards.

    Purves v Joydisk Ltd, Court of Session, 25 February 2003
    This was an appeal in Scotland against an award of 350 for injury to feelings. The appeal court increased the award to 1000. The Sheriff Principal commented: "the sum of 750 is the least that may nowadays be awarded for the slightest injury to feelings, deserving of damages, which is caused by discrimination on the ground of disability".
    Look also at their ''Examples of cases on compensation'' and USE them.

    Only costs her 25 for a punt...hmmmm...if she told them in 2012 about the disability and that they were 'looking for a disabled bay and then left' then I would say she has a case. If the PPC knew this in 2012 - I WOULD DO A COUNTER CLAIM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Ralph-y
    • By Ralph-y 7th Jan 18, 11:32 PM
    • 2,651 Posts
    • 3,330 Thanks
    Ralph-y
    "Any views on a counter claim for discrimination by harassment of a Disabled Person's Carer, or am I trying to have my cake and eat it?"


    erm ... well as per the cake and eat it .... ...

    how about

    this forum backed campaign ?

    WHICH are asking again for consumer problems

    https://whichcouk.bsd.net/page/s/which-taking-on-2018

    Which are pretty good at hitting the government with
    consumer problems.
    No harm in them hearing from you, I have done it for
    the great parking scam and their dodgly solicitors

    Only takes a couple of mins


    Ralph
    • Mareczek
    • By Mareczek 7th Jan 18, 11:49 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Mareczek
    Thank you for that very helpful info Coupon-mad.

    As stated previously, she did appeal in 2012 on the grounds of never ever parking there, and that she was looking for a disabled bay, on both visits that day for her passenger, her 88 year year old wheelchair bound Grandma. Failed to find one, and left immediately. Excel were not interested, and demanded proof that the car was somewhere else, at the time they reckoned it was parked in 'their' car park.

    We will weigh up the pros and cons, and if we go for it, it will be for 1000.

    Many thanks
    • Mareczek
    • By Mareczek 7th Jan 18, 11:53 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Mareczek
    Thanks Ralph-y, will consider.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 7th Jan 18, 11:57 PM
    • 58,415 Posts
    • 71,931 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Thank you for that very helpful info Coupon-mad.

    As stated previously, she did appeal in 2012 on the grounds of never ever parking there, and that she was looking for a disabled bay, on both visits that day for her passenger, her 88 year year old wheelchair bound Grandma. Failed to find one, and left immediately. Excel were not interested, and demanded proof that the car was somewhere else, at the time they reckoned it was parked in 'their' car park.

    We will weigh up the pros and cons, and if we go for it, it will be for 1000.
    Originally posted by Mareczek
    Good.

    Nothing would make my day more than seeing a nasty firm get their come uppance!

    If I have time I will comment on your counter-claim draft, albeit I don't take pm's so it will need to be chewed over here on the forum, which is fine.

    Worth a 25 punt; because Excel knew about the disability need, I can't see ANY cons.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Mareczek
    • By Mareczek 12th Jan 18, 12:58 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Mareczek
    Hi

    I am back on the case now, and I will appreciate your assistance in due course.

    I have to make some phone calls.

    Many thanks
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 12th Jan 18, 1:03 PM
    • 35,864 Posts
    • 20,103 Thanks
    Quentin
    .

    I have to make some phone calls
    Originally posted by Mareczek
    Not to the PPC or their sols!!!
    • logician
    • By logician 12th Jan 18, 1:46 PM
    • 194 Posts
    • 76 Thanks
    logician

    We will weigh up the pros and cons, and if we go for it, it will be for 1000.

    Many thanks
    Originally posted by Mareczek
    Good.



    Worth a 25 punt; because Excel knew about the disability need, I can't see ANY cons.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad


    It will be higher than 25 filing fee for a counterclaim of 1,000 - actually 60 plus if the Claimant discontinues before paying the hearing fee then the Defendant will need to pay the hearing fee applicable rate for the counterclaim value.

    Fees are on a sliding scale

    https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/court-fees


    http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/HMCTS/GetLeaflet.do?court_leaflets_id=264



    As for Cons

    The OP is not the Defendant so we are making comments via a third party communications..

    The protected person is sadly deceased.

    The POCs for the counterclaim will need to spell out exactly the reasons specifying

    Discrimination by association

    and

    Whether direct and or indirect discrimination and how so
    • Mareczek
    • By Mareczek 12th Jan 18, 1:56 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Mareczek
    Hi

    re. Counter claim

    I have spoken to the Equality Advisory Service, and the person I spoke to was quite adamant that as the "incident" occurred over 5 years ago, the 6 month period had elapsed to make a claim, and she didn't see how I could argue otherwise.

    I think she was somewhat bamboozled by my logic (provided by Coupon-mad), but wasn't having any of it. She didn't think we had a case anyway, which was a bit rich coming from someone, not meant to be giving out legal advice.

    Any views ?

    Many thanks
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 12th Jan 18, 2:15 PM
    • 2,748 Posts
    • 3,412 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Did you raise ALL the poitns given by CMM in post 22?
    • Mareczek
    • By Mareczek 12th Jan 18, 2:39 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Mareczek
    Hi

    Yes, I was reading directly from post 22. She did hesitate, on a number of points that I raised. I am not convinced that she is correct, as it took her a long time to understand what I was getting at, but I don't know whether a counterclaim is appropriate now (unless a solicitor on here tells me otherwise).

    Thanks
    • Castle
    • By Castle 12th Jan 18, 2:45 PM
    • 1,767 Posts
    • 2,390 Thanks
    Castle
    Excel have "form" for faulty ANPR at this site:-
    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/excel-anpr-flawed-car-was-having-mot-at.html
    • Mareczek
    • By Mareczek 12th Jan 18, 4:27 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Mareczek
    Many thanks for that
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th Jan 18, 1:21 AM
    • 58,415 Posts
    • 71,931 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Hi

    Yes, I was reading directly from post 22. She did hesitate, on a number of points that I raised. I am not convinced that she is correct, as it took her a long time to understand what I was getting at, but I don't know whether a counterclaim is appropriate now (unless a solicitor on here tells me otherwise).

    Thanks
    Originally posted by Mareczek
    I would try it if I were in the Defendant's shoes.

    The protected person includes the carer, under the Equality Act. And the conduct is continuing.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Mareczek
    • By Mareczek 31st Jan 18, 10:23 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Mareczek
    Thank you all, will post defence shortly.
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