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  • FIRST POST
    • Pdmum
    • By Pdmum 5th Jan 18, 4:10 PM
    • 54Posts
    • 24Thanks
    Pdmum
    pcn to registered keeper
    • #1
    • 5th Jan 18, 4:10 PM
    pcn to registered keeper 5th Jan 18 at 4:10 PM
    Received pcn as registered keeper. I am not the driver. Put in appeal using template letter which has been rejected. reason for rejection is different to reason shown on PCN. Does this breach POFA 4. If so what do i do now, I have been issued with a POPLA CODE.
Page 5
    • Pdmum
    • By Pdmum 30th Mar 18, 11:27 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 24 Thanks
    Pdmum
    Premier Park
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 31st Mar 18, 12:09 AM
    • 57,449 Posts
    • 71,037 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I would reply robustly to try to shut them up, and say:



    Dear Premier Park,

    re PCN xxxxxx

    There will be no settlement, so kindly stop demanding different sums of money in the hope that I am a typical victim of PPC World. I am not. I have watched the February Parliamantary debate about the 'rogue' industry private parking firms and am well aware of the issues.

    In order to comply with all aspects of 'pre-action protocol', I suggest you read the new protocol from 1st October. For the avoidance of doubt, I was not the driver nor was I in the vehicle, but Premier Park already knows this, as well as the fact that the driver did pay for the 4 hours parked.

    There was no contravention and your conduct in issuing this PCN was wrong from the outset.

    Any minutes spent before paying at the machine for parking, and after paid for time, are covered by the Grace Periods (plural) section, as set out in your own Trade Body Code of Practice applicable on the material date.

    Whether POPLA realised that or not is their problem, not mine, and their decision - made by part time non-legally trained clerical staff - is not binding and their glaring errors in judgement and failure to apply consumer law/the Code of Practice properly, are part of the reason for the current Private Parking (Code of Practice) Bill.

    Clearly, like POPLA, your company do not understand your own Code of Practice nor comply with it, because your landowner contract schedule only allowed 5 minutes grace, a woefully short period which is not allowed under the rules. Should you proceed, yours will be an unfounded case and evidence of unwarranted harassment of a registered keeper.

    Harassment and distress
    This continued contact and demands for money represent a significant nuisance that is continuing to affect my peace of mind and that of my family, distracting me from my work and my daily life. Hours of my time have already been wasted on this matter, only to receive more threatening and misleading letters with ever increasing sums of money.

    This baseless but nasty financial attack on me is causing me serious distress.

    Counter Claim
    Take note that it is my intention to counter-claim for a sum not less than 500 (or such greater sum that the Judge might consider applies, given the facts) in compensation for my distress and that of my family.

    I draw your attention to a judgment at the Leeds County Court, 3SP00071 - Blamires v LGO. This was a claim for damages which I understand centred around incorrect data being held/negligently processed, in breach of the Data Protection Act. The judge awarded a further 2,500 aggravated damages because of the manner in which the Defendant conducted its case, including the fact that, notwithstanding being told by the Claimant that its conduct was wrong, it took nearly two years for the Defendant to admit the mistake.

    The award in Blamires was of 'Vidal Hall' compensation; the judge saying there was no doubt that the breaches had ''caused distress to the claimant in their own rights as well as as a result of the consequences that flowed.'' Compensation can be awarded for pure distress alone.

    I am also aware of two recent successful counter-claims against parking operators:

    - on Friday 16th March 2018, in case D8HW7G7P in the Slough County Court, another notorious ex-clamper parking firm not dissimilar to your firm (in that case, UKPC) lost an unreasonable claim against a beleaguered motorist. UKPC were found liable for the Defendant's ordinary costs and his 500 counter-claim for distress for a DPA breach by processing his data contrary to the Data Protection Principles.

    - in May 2017, in case D6GM2199 CEL v Mr B, Bury County Court, before DJ Osborne, a motorist was awarded 900 against another parking company of your ilk (in this case, Civil Enforcement Limited). Mr B. was the vehicle keeper and as the NTK was not POFA compliant (rather like your NTK), the parking firm had no valid claim against the keeper. Mr B filed a counterclaim and this was upheld.

    In his judgment, DJ Osborne ruled that the tort of damages was applicable and that 500 for the resulting distress was not an unreasonable amount in the circumstances. He added an additional 405 in costs, part of which were awarded on the indemnity basis, under rule 27.14.2(g) for the unreasonable behaviour of the parking firm in bringing an unfounded case.

    Should your company proceed with a vexatious and misconceived claim, I will have no hesitation in seeking to claim punitive costs, pursuant to CPR Rule 27.14(2)(g) and I will not restrict those costs to 19 per hour (the usual LiP rate). I intend to seek recompense for the hours I have wasted on this at a rate of 60 ph (being approximately 50% of costs of a grade D fee earner) which I consider to be eminently reasonable, given the circumstances described.

    I will also ask the Court of its own initiative, to exercise its inherent powers to summarily dispose of issues which do not need full investigation and trial, pursuant to CPR Rule 1.4(2)(c) and Practice Direction 26, paragraph 5.1, namely to strike out your claim under CPR Rule 3.4 or, in the alternative, to summarily adjudge it pursuant to CPR Rule 24.

    I expect to hear from you within 14 days to confirm that all charges are withdrawn and that my data as registered keeper is removed from all records held by you.

    All letters exchanged will be used in evidence in court.

    yours faithfully,
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 31-03-2018 at 12:12 AM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Pdmum
    • By Pdmum 31st Mar 18, 11:38 AM
    • 54 Posts
    • 24 Thanks
    Pdmum
    Oh my!
    Should i send all of this, am not sure i fully understand the last paragraph.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 31st Mar 18, 10:05 PM
    • 57,449 Posts
    • 71,037 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yes, all of it.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Pdmum
    • By Pdmum 1st Apr 18, 10:35 AM
    • 54 Posts
    • 24 Thanks
    Pdmum
    Ok, Thank you for taking the time to do this. Happy Easter !
    • Pdmum
    • By Pdmum 12th May 18, 12:20 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 24 Thanks
    Pdmum
    Lbc
    I have now received a letter identical to 'Welsh Goblin' along with reply form and financial statement.
    Do i just write without filling in forms?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th May 18, 1:21 AM
    • 57,449 Posts
    • 71,037 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yes indeed. Show us your draft.

    You could also send a SAR to make them scrabble around and provide all photos & data held, and ask them why their PCN, letters, signs, nothing told you about your right to a SAR, which is against the ICO CoP for ANPR surveillance camera use , and in turn breaches the BPA CoP.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Pdmum
    • By Pdmum 13th May 18, 7:00 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 24 Thanks
    Pdmum
    Draft reply
    This is my draft reply to LBC.
    Would be grateful of any comments

    Dear Sir,
    Thank you for your letter of **/**/****.
    I refer to your statement about my POPLA appeal and would like to point out that many appeals identical in points raised in mine have been successful and there were many inaccuracies by POPLA in dealing with my appeal.
    This has been brought to the attention of both John Gallagher and my MP and these discrepancies will form part of my defence should you proceed any further.

    You also state in your letter that the documents you have provided are not purported to be an exhaustive list of documents relevant to the alleged debt.
    This is in breach of pre-action obligations and does not enable me to comply with my obligations under paragraph 6(b) of the Practice Direction.
    I therefore require that you comply and send all documents relevant to the alleged debt.
    In addition I require you to send the following documents/information :-
    1. A full explanation of the cause of action.
    2. Whether you are pursuing me as driver or keeper.
    3. Whether you are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 12.
    4. An unredacted copy of the contract with the landowner ( this was requested in *** /**** and has still not been provided)
    5. A copy of any alleged contract with the driver.
    6. Concise details of the signs displayed( to include size of sign, size of font,and the height at which they are displayed. Please take note that any images of signs provided would need to be how they would have appeared at the time of the alleged breach, ie at night and without being circled for clarity. This information was also requested in ***/**** and has not been provided.
    7. What has been added to the original charge, what that represents and how it has been calculated.
    It has been brought to my attention that I have a right to a SAR.
    At no point have you informed me of this which is an offence under the DPA . This is clearly set out in the Code of Practice for ANPR Camera use and in breach of the BPA CoP.
    I therefore exercise my right to a SAR and ask that you provide all information held.
    If you fail to respond to this letter and issue proceedings I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.
    Yours faithfully
    **************
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th May 18, 11:19 PM
    • 57,449 Posts
    • 71,037 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yes, go for it and see where it takes you.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Pdmum
    • By Pdmum 14th May 18, 4:35 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 24 Thanks
    Pdmum
    Thank you, will do.
    • WelshGoblin
    • By WelshGoblin 22nd May 18, 2:24 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    WelshGoblin
    I'm putting together a similar letter for mine but have a few queries/concerns based on the above draft which may effect both of us and any others:

    1. Some of the points seem to be designed to create work for the PPC rather than be actual points (ie I think the cause of action is set out in my letter as being breach of a contract and I think I have most if not all the pictures and documents being requested from the popla appeal). Why would I ask for it now and, if it is to create work for PPC, will this go against me if they go to court?

    2. What practice direction are you referring to? I can't find anything relevant to your paragraphs in the pre-action protocol which was included with my letter.

    Its probably me either not properly understanding or worrying for no reason but thought it best to ask. Thank you for posting your draft letter it has been very helpful so far.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 22nd May 18, 6:22 PM
    • 7,192 Posts
    • 6,671 Thanks
    KeithP
    WelshGoblin, you should really be asking those questions on your own thread.

    Over a week ago Pdmum said they were sending their letter, so the answers to your questions are unlikely to help him/her.
    .
    • WelshGoblin
    • By WelshGoblin 22nd May 18, 7:17 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    WelshGoblin
    KeithP - point taken, I was trying to keep my queries with the draft they were based on rather than duplicate the contents but I hadn't noticed the posting date.
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