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  • FIRST POST
    • Keto Plastics
    • By Keto Plastics 5th Jan 18, 11:15 AM
    • 44Posts
    • 9Thanks
    Keto Plastics
    Landlord selling / sold house need some legal advice
    • #1
    • 5th Jan 18, 11:15 AM
    Landlord selling / sold house need some legal advice 5th Jan 18 at 11:15 AM
    Hi All

    Need some advice as been informed today via phone call that the Landlord has sold the house and wants Me to move out in two months time because the new owners want possession (the estate agent said they are sending out the paperwork tomorrow, section 21 I assume)

    What I need to know is what My legal rights are under the circumstances
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Page 5
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 8th Jan 18, 8:44 AM
    • 16,720 Posts
    • 41,339 Thanks
    FBaby
    Yes that is basically what the LL has done, and as You can imagine I am angry at that especially now I am in a position where I cannot afford to find a new place to live and I will eventually be homeless
    Are you angry because you put the kitchen and he then decided to sell? If that's the case, yes, you have a right to be angry, but you CAN do something about this. The rest you have no reasons to be angry about. As a tenant on a rolling contract, you can be told that the house is being sold at anytime and that you need to leave within 2 months. That's the downfall of being a tenant and something you should accept, so anger is not relevant for that purpose.

    If your main issue is that you found yourself without funds for a deposit, then as said, you had the option to sell your kitchen as soon as you knew the house was put on sale. As Artful pointed out, even if you couldn't put back the old one and the LL decided to sue you for it, considering the condition of the previous one, and you putting your case forward, it's very unlikely he would have got anything from it anyway. The chances that he would indeed take you to court for this are almost none as clearly, all he cares is to get rid of the house. Even if, in the worse case, you were ordered to repay him, at least by then you'd have had the deposit money to move somewhere.

    So you do need to take responsibility for the situation you are finding yourself in. You are as much, if not more at fault.

    As for the abuse, considering how angry you are, and defensive, I expect they would probably say you were as abusive to them as you say they were.

    Use your energy to benefit you, not to punish someone who won't care one bit about you. Dismantle that kitchen today, sell in on ebay, go and look for somewhere else to live that you'd be happy with, and pay the deposit/fee with what you get from the kitchen. Learn from this experience and NEVER EVER agree to spend your money on anything that increase the value of the house.
    • gettingtheresometime
    • By gettingtheresometime 8th Jan 18, 9:06 AM
    • 3,705 Posts
    • 9,178 Thanks
    gettingtheresometime
    I have no words of advice but I do hope that the poster who was asking a few months back whether replacing a landlord's kitchen has read this thread.
    Lloyds OD / Natwest OD / PO CC / Wescott / Argos Card cleared thanks to the 1 debt v 100 day challenge


    Next on the list - JD Williams
    • Keto Plastics
    • By Keto Plastics 10th Jan 18, 1:15 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Keto Plastics
    I have tried taking some peoples advice and negotiating and it seems there is no negotiating as they are not interested in doing so
    TBH I did not think they would with how they acted the last time they come out to the property, but had to try at least
    Hi, we’ve had to remove your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 10th Jan 18, 1:19 PM
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    Pixie5740
    This may already have been answered but has the landlord actually sold the property or is he just wanting to put it up for sale? Did you not notice people coming round to view the property or a large "for sale" sign outside?
    • gingercordial
    • By gingercordial 10th Jan 18, 1:34 PM
    • 1,160 Posts
    • 1,198 Thanks
    gingercordial
    I have tried taking some peoples advice and negotiating and it seems there is no negotiating as they are not interested in doing so
    TBH I did not think they would with how they acted the last time they come out to the property, but had to try at least
    Originally posted by Keto Plastics
    Well they can say they won't negotiate.

    You can say you won't be moving out on their terms then. Reiterate that if they want you out on their timescale, you need the things you've asked for (deposit returned, reference, payment of £x for the kitchen). Then leave it with them. They can still say no. They can try to bully you out. You may need to call the police to stop them evicting you illegally. Eventually they will realise that you are not going anywhere until you choose to do so (and they make it worth your while) or they get to the end of a very long court process, and they may come to realise it is worth giving you what you want. Tell them to come back to you when they are ready to talk, and let them mull it over.

    In the meantime you do need to look for somewhere else as eventually they will get through the whole process properly and you will have to leave, so you might as well find somewhere you like on your own timescale.

    But don't let them intimidate you in the meantime.
    • Keto Plastics
    • By Keto Plastics 10th Jan 18, 1:38 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Keto Plastics
    This may already have been answered but has the landlord actually sold the property or is he just wanting to put it up for sale? Did you not notice people coming round to view the property or a large "for sale" sign outside?
    Originally posted by Pixie5740
    As far as I know he has apparently sold the property / accepted a offer, and the date they want Me out by, they want to complete the sale
    They want Vacant possession
    Hi, we’ve had to remove your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 10th Jan 18, 1:52 PM
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    Pixie5740
    As far as I know he has apparently sold the property / accepted a offer, and the date they want Me out by, they want to complete the sale
    They want Vacant possession
    Originally posted by Keto Plastics
    How odd. I would want a number of viewings of a property before pushing for exchange. Each to their own.

    If you can't afford to move then you can't afford to move. Have you contacted the housing charity Shelter for advice? Some councils offer a deposit bond scheme for tenants who don't have the money to stump up a deposit themselves so that might be worth looking into.

    Sooner or later you will need to leave. If your landlord takes this to court and the Section 21 is valid he can have the court costs awarded against you. Similarly if he has to use county court bailiffs to evict you then you will be liable for the cost.
    • aneary
    • By aneary 10th Jan 18, 1:54 PM
    • 887 Posts
    • 836 Thanks
    aneary
    How odd. I would want a number of viewings of a property before pushing for exchange. Each to their own.

    If you can't afford to move then you can't afford to move. Have you contacted the housing charity Shelter for advice? Some councils offer a deposit bond scheme for tenants who don't have the money to stump up a deposit themselves so that might be worth looking into.

    Sooner or later you will need to leave. If your landlord takes this to court and the Section 21 is valid he can have the court costs awarded against you. Similarly if he has to use county court bailiffs to evict you then you will be liable for the cost.
    Originally posted by Pixie5740
    They had viewings all on one day.

    Currently it appears that the S21 is invalid as it has given the OP less than 2 months to leave.
    • Keto Plastics
    • By Keto Plastics 10th Jan 18, 1:56 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Keto Plastics
    Well they can say they won't negotiate.

    You can say you won't be moving out on their terms then. Reiterate that if they want you out on their timescale, you need the things you've asked for (deposit returned, reference, payment of £x for the kitchen). Then leave it with them. They can still say no. They can try to bully you out. You may need to call the police to stop them evicting you illegally. Eventually they will realise that you are not going anywhere until you choose to do so (and they make it worth your while) or they get to the end of a very long court process, and they may come to realise it is worth giving you what you want. Tell them to come back to you when they are ready to talk, and let them mull it over.

    In the meantime you do need to look for somewhere else as eventually they will get through the whole process properly and you will have to leave, so you might as well find somewhere you like on your own timescale.

    But don't let them intimidate you in the meantime.
    Originally posted by gingercordial
    That is one thing I am starting to do now is look for another property and raise funds ready for when I find one

    I did ask for deposit back early but they replied that the deposit scheme will not release it until after I move out of the property (don't know if that's true or not as they could release it if both parties required it to be I would imagine)

    That is one thing I will do if they try to gain entry or if they try evicting illegally or even if the LL comes back to the property and acts like He did before, I will call the police
    Hi, we’ve had to remove your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 10th Jan 18, 2:08 PM
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    Pixie5740
    They had viewings all on one day.
    Originally posted by aneary
    I would want to view a property more than once before exchanging but as I said, "each to their own." I am slightly curious as to why the OP seems surprised that the property has been sold if viewings were conducted.

    Currently it appears that the S21 is invalid as it has given the OP less than 2 months to leave.
    Originally posted by aneary
    Indeed but eventually he will get it right or at least you would think so. Perhaps going to court and getting egg on his face will encourage the landlord to negotiate. I doubt the buyer will wait around for that long though.
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 10th Jan 18, 2:13 PM
    • 12,171 Posts
    • 17,191 Thanks
    Pixie5740

    I did ask for deposit back early but they replied that the deposit scheme will not release it until after I move out of the property (don't know if that's true or not as they could release it if both parties required it to be I would imagine)
    Originally posted by Keto Plastics
    If both parties agree the deposit can be released early.

    That is one thing I will do if they try to gain entry or if they try evicting illegally or even if the LL comes back to the property and acts like He did before, I will call the police
    Originally posted by Keto Plastics
    If the landlord comes back unannounced then don't even open the door to him. Call 101 if necessary. If you are concerned about the landlord gaining access to your home you could always change the barrels of the lock, very simple to do.
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 10th Jan 18, 2:30 PM
    • 16,720 Posts
    • 41,339 Thanks
    FBaby
    If your landlord takes this to court and the Section 21 is valid he can have the court costs awarded against you. Similarly if he has to use county court bailiffs to evict you then you will be liable for the cost
    Indeed. All very well to go about your rights and advice that the powers are in your hands to negotiate what you want. At the moment, you have no idea how it could go. They could indeed turn desperate, especially if the buyer threaten to pull out. That's the time you would be best to negotiate and likely to get something, but although that might mean money in your hands, it won't give you a roof and you can assume that the money will come when you've handed the keys.

    Or you could wait for the 2 months to come and then refuse to move so they have to take you to court. You'll get another couple of months if the S21 is indeed deemed unlawful (but make sure that is the case, a name wrongly spelt might not be enough to be considered so) but you will then get no deal, no immediate deposit back (because you can sure he will contest it and they can delay the process for many months disputing everything so you get no deposit back for a long time after you've moved out, and you then end up with court fees to pay, and potentially still nowhere decent to move.

    So you really need to consider all options and not assume that using the law in your favour will automatically result in a positive outcome for you. It many cases, both the LL and the tenant ended up losers.
    • Keto Plastics
    • By Keto Plastics 10th Jan 18, 2:30 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    Keto Plastics
    How odd. I would want a number of viewings of a property before pushing for exchange. Each to their own.

    If you can't afford to move then you can't afford to move. Have you contacted the housing charity Shelter for advice? Some councils offer a deposit bond scheme for tenants who don't have the money to stump up a deposit themselves so that might be worth looking into.

    Sooner or later you will need to leave. If your landlord takes this to court and the Section 21 is valid he can have the court costs awarded against you. Similarly if he has to use county court bailiffs to evict you then you will be liable for the cost.
    Originally posted by Pixie5740
    Yes I contacted Shelter for advice, and it is due to them and a few people here that lets Me know the S21 is most likely invalid
    I assume the court costs are paid by the LL / Agents if I win and they lose ?
    I am prepared to have to pay costs if I lose

    Thanks for the deposit bond scheme I never knew about that, I will look into it
    Hi, we’ve had to remove your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 10th Jan 18, 2:51 PM
    • 12,171 Posts
    • 17,191 Thanks
    Pixie5740
    Yes I contacted Shelter for advice, and it is due to them and a few people here that lets Me know the S21 is most likely invalid
    I assume the court costs are paid by the LL / Agents if I win and they lose ?
    I am prepared to have to pay costs if I lose

    Thanks for the deposit bond scheme I never knew about that, I will look into it
    Originally posted by Keto Plastics
    Yes, if the landlord has cocked up the Section 21 he will be responsible for the court costs.
    • PersianCatLady
    • By PersianCatLady 10th Jan 18, 4:02 PM
    • 456 Posts
    • 412 Thanks
    PersianCatLady
    Yes deposit is protected but they will not give that back until after moved out and they want proof that all bills are paid for the property before they will release it (no matter what the condition of house is in)

    Used to be on a 6 month AST, now it is a rolling contract
    The address they want Me to move out of is the only address I have

    What would invalidate a section 21 ?
    Cannot start looking for a new home as all the money I have is tied up (in deposit) and been used up in this current property (fitted new kitchen with LL's consent not long back thinking I was staying here)
    Originally posted by Keto Plastics
    Here is a good guide from the DPS called "Tenancy Deposits, Disputes And Damages" -
    https://www.depositprotection.com/documents/a-guide-to-tenancy-deposits-disputes-and-damages.pdf
    • PersianCatLady
    • By PersianCatLady 10th Jan 18, 4:19 PM
    • 456 Posts
    • 412 Thanks
    PersianCatLady
    Ignore notice for the moment & don't tell landlord he's got an invalid notice.

    As soon as he knows notice is invalid he can issue a new, valid, one. Wait & seewhat it does - if it gets to court challenge case on basis of invalidity..

    Even if notice is valid if you dig your heels it will take 40+ weeks on average to evict you see...
    https://forums.landlordzone.co.uk/forum/residential-letting-questions/77351-time-to-repossess-statistics


    (One option you/owner may consider - I make no comment on morality...). Perhaps old/new owner might be prepared to bribe you to move early. Were it me I'd want £5k+

    Artful: Landlord
    Originally posted by theartfullodger
    Sorry if this question seems stupid or sarcastic as I am told that due to my directness sometimes I come across that way but can I just ask are you saying that the S21 (Form 6A) is invalid because of the dates being one day less then two months??

    I genuinely want to understand this.
    • PersianCatLady
    • By PersianCatLady 10th Jan 18, 4:21 PM
    • 456 Posts
    • 412 Thanks
    PersianCatLady
    Fbaby said "maybe".

    The points being made were that
    a) we only have ONE side of the story (there are always two)
    b) we may not have the FULL side of the story
    c) ultiately you WILL have to leave at some point
    d) you CHOSE to invest your own cash into the property - noone FORCED you

    Having said that, you've received lots of advice on your legal rights. What you decide to do is then up to YOU.

    Note: putting LOTS of capitalisations in your post makes you appear OVERLY defensive, antagonistic, and somewhat childish - just a hint for future reference.......
    Originally posted by G_M
    Sorry for being a bit off-topic but I always seem to find that there are three sides to most stories, A's side, B's side and then the actual true story is somewhere in between the two.
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 10th Jan 18, 4:22 PM
    • 20,321 Posts
    • 16,080 Thanks
    agrinnall
    Yes I contacted Shelter for advice, and it is due to them and a few people here that lets Me know the S21 is most likely invalid
    I assume the court costs are paid by the LL / Agents if I win and they lose ?
    I am prepared to have to pay costs if I lose
    Originally posted by Keto Plastics
    Even if the LL loses and has to pay your costs this time they will eventually get the S21 right and will gain possession, so I'm not sure why you want to prolong the agony. If you want a home that nobody can kick you out of, buy your own.
    • PersianCatLady
    • By PersianCatLady 10th Jan 18, 4:26 PM
    • 456 Posts
    • 412 Thanks
    PersianCatLady
    That is one thing I am starting to do now is look for another property and raise funds ready for when I find one

    I did ask for deposit back early but they replied that the deposit scheme will not release it until after I move out of the property (don't know if that's true or not as they could release it if both parties required it to be I would imagine)

    That is one thing I will do if they try to gain entry or if they try evicting illegally or even if the LL comes back to the property and acts like He did before, I will call the police
    Originally posted by Keto Plastics
    Sorry to say this but if I was a LL and I had the best tenant in the world who gave me no issues at all, then I still wouldn't release their deposit until they had vacated the property.
    • Slithery
    • By Slithery 10th Jan 18, 4:31 PM
    • 721 Posts
    • 1,129 Thanks
    Slithery
    are you saying that the S21 (Form 6A) is invalid because of the dates being one day less then two months??
    Originally posted by PersianCatLady
    Yep, that's correct.
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