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  • FIRST POST
    • MissusC
    • By MissusC 5th Jan 18, 10:38 AM
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    MissusC
    Seller cancelled order AFTER dispatch email
    • #1
    • 5th Jan 18, 10:38 AM
    Seller cancelled order AFTER dispatch email 5th Jan 18 at 10:38 AM
    Long story so I will be as brief as possible while trying to give relevant details.

    I ordered a leotard for my daughter back in September. It was not bespoke. It was part of a “winter collection”. I paid in full £36, and was told the leotard would be in stock mid November. I asked if I was to do anything further, but told the leotard would be sent out.

    I contacted them in early December as no leotard had arrived. I was told they were expecting delivery of stock early December. I reiterated this was a xmas gift. I was assured it would be sent. I chased up the 13th of December and the 16th. On the 22nd I was emailed and told my delivery would not be possible and I had two options- to accept a partial refund and then leotard later, or a different leotard sent that day then the one that was ordered sent when it arrived with them.
    As it was last posting day before Xmas and I only read the email at 5.30 I didn’t see the point in an alternate leotard as it wouldn’t arrive in time so said I would accept a partial refund.

    I received an email on the 3rd of January to say my “order was complete and my item shipped”. I replied saying that was good to hear, and when could I expect my partial refund. I expected the refund to reflect the cost of a leotard (sale or cost price- not full price) as that was the other offer- two leotards for the price paid already. So I was quite shocked and annoyed to receive £6.49 as a refund. I replied to this effect.

    4th of January at 5pm I received an email saying “our order has been cancelled as requested” and my PayPal account has he remaining £29 odds pending.

    So I think the company are annoyed I have complained about their refund and have cancelled and won’t send my leotard. But they sent the email saying it was dispatched the day BEFORE cancelling- so I think that proves they were lying about it being sent?

    I am very angry that they have let down my child for Xmas- had I known they would not deliver in time I would have ordered a different leotard for my child to open on Xmas day. She has seen the one ordered and was told it would arrive soon.

    Have I any recourse with this company to insist they send the leotard they promised?

    All advice appreciated.
Page 1
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 5th Jan 18, 11:03 AM
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    marliepanda
    • #2
    • 5th Jan 18, 11:03 AM
    • #2
    • 5th Jan 18, 11:03 AM
    You accepted a partial refund and a leotard later.

    You got a partial refund of roughly 20%, and they had plans to dispatch the leotard.

    Then you complained the refund wasnt enough.

    I'm a bit confused at to what refund was agreed, and what refund you expected? You seem to have simply assumed what refund you would get.

    No one let your child down. If you showed your child the order and said 'ooh look what Ive ordered your for Christmas' before Christmas, thats on you.
    • stuartJo1989
    • By stuartJo1989 5th Jan 18, 11:21 AM
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    stuartJo1989
    • #3
    • 5th Jan 18, 11:21 AM
    • #3
    • 5th Jan 18, 11:21 AM
    Errm...

    What was wrong with the proposed solution? You were offered an 18% refund as well as the item. Seems quite fair to me!

    I appreciate the delay you experienced, but I can't help but think that you should have made contingency plans here.... I mean the "mid November" time frame was communicated to you prior to purchasing, so that's fine. When it started to creep into mid December though I think you should have been more proactive in solving this problem. Bit harsh blaming the company for ruining your child's christmas here.... (is your child quite materialistic?).

    Also, in terms of the dispatch email.... What has probably happened is that they've pressed a button on the system the night before and went to post the item on the next day (you needed to know asap that dispatch occured). If you have sent them an angry/nasty email then they've probably picked it up before posting the item and saw their !!!!. I don't strictly think they've lied, and if they have to what end did they lie?!

    In a legal sense, you may have a case for consequential loss or something like that (because, I believe, dispatch email forms the contract) but that's a bit iffy and probably something that you'd need to speak to CAB over.
    • MissusC
    • By MissusC 5th Jan 18, 11:23 AM
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    MissusC
    • #4
    • 5th Jan 18, 11:23 AM
    • #4
    • 5th Jan 18, 11:23 AM
    They did let my child down as the item was promised before Xmas and then not sent- leaving me to give her an IOU on Xmas day. So she then saw the leotard I believed in good faith was going to be sent.
    I expected a “partial refund” would be equivalent to the other offer which was another (extra) leotard. But given that offer was only emailed on the last posting day before Xmas I accepted the refund as I had missed the chance to get a leotard. So yes I was assuming the partial refund would reflect the fact that I had waited for 3 months for an item ordered for Xmas that had then NOT been delivered by Xmas. I expected it to be of a similar value to the alternative choice of a leotard so around £15. I had paid £3.95 for delivery so really some of my refund was postage. Leaving around £3 as actual refund.

    I emailed to say I was disappointed by the amount of the partial refund. This was AFTER they had emailed me to say t was “shipped”. So surely they were in fact lying about sending it if they could then cancel the order?

    What point does my contract with them actually count? Or is it acceptable to keep my money for 3 months, fail to deliver on time and then just refund as they get angry with me complaining?
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 5th Jan 18, 11:34 AM
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    marliepanda
    • #5
    • 5th Jan 18, 11:34 AM
    • #5
    • 5th Jan 18, 11:34 AM
    They did let my child down as the item was promised before Xmas and then not sent- leaving me to give her an IOU on Xmas day. So she then saw the leotard I believed in good faith was going to be sent.
    I expected a “partial refund” would be equivalent to the other offer which was another (extra) leotard. But given that offer was only emailed on the last posting day before Xmas I accepted the refund as I had missed the chance to get a leotard. So yes I was assuming the partial refund would reflect the fact that I had waited for 3 months for an item ordered for Xmas that had then NOT been delivered by Xmas. I expected it to be of a similar value to the alternative choice of a leotard so around £15. I had paid £3.95 for delivery so really some of my refund was postage. Leaving around £3 as actual refund.

    I emailed to say I was disappointed by the amount of the partial refund. This was AFTER they had emailed me to say t was “shipped”. So surely they were in fact lying about sending it if they could then cancel the order?

    What point does my contract with them actually count? Or is it acceptable to keep my money for 3 months, fail to deliver on time and then just refund as they get angry with me complaining?
    Originally posted by MissusC
    They will pay less for the leotards than you pay. Sending you another leotard will hurt their purse less than refunding you, so their offer can be more generous if offering more 'goods.'

    You assumed you'd get a huge chunk back, without any promise or clarification of that.

    You did not read the response by StuartJo, many places click 'shipped' when the item is all ready to go. If you decided to send a snotty email about your paltry refund (which they didnt have to offer at all...) probably annoyed them.

    sorry but your daughters disappointment and subsequent disappointment is due to your actions.

    There are other leotard stores, I assure you.
    • MissusC
    • By MissusC 5th Jan 18, 11:35 AM
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    MissusC
    • #6
    • 5th Jan 18, 11:35 AM
    • #6
    • 5th Jan 18, 11:35 AM
    I hope I’m replying in the right places, apologies if not.

    I didn’t say it ruined or spoiled my child’s Christmas. I said she had been let down, and she has.

    The company emailed the shipping notice on the 2nd of January at 8.20pm and the cancellation (“at my request”) yesterday (the 4th) at 5.30pm. So this is what I mean by lying.
    My “angry” message was simply saying I was further disappointed by their refund which was less than 10% of the item cost given that £3.50 of the total price was postage.

    Thank you for your answers.
    • MissusC
    • By MissusC 5th Jan 18, 11:41 AM
    • 8 Posts
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    MissusC
    • #7
    • 5th Jan 18, 11:41 AM
    • #7
    • 5th Jan 18, 11:41 AM
    To clarify. The offer on the 22nd of December was for a leotard sent out that day to arrive for Xmas THEN the original one ordered sent out on arrival. OR a “partial refund” then the original sent out.

    Had I received that offer via messenger (the previous method of contact til that day) I would have accepted the other leotard to have something to wrap for my daughter. But I didn’t check my email til teatime so I missed that chance.

    Had the company offered that when they knew the chances were they wouldn’t be honouring the delivery date agreed I think that would have been fairer than offering it at the very last minute which to me seems an attempt to offer something not many people could actually take advantage of.

    Oh and I also realise I didn’t answer a previous question- I do feel that asking several times to clarify delivery would be before Xmas was me trying to be proactive. However I couldn’t have a contingency present as the company had my £36 already... I am not in a position to buy spare presents on the off chance a company don’t do as they say they will. And I don’t think it’s fair to say I didn’t do what I could.
    • MissusC
    • By MissusC 5th Jan 18, 11:48 AM
    • 8 Posts
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    MissusC
    • #8
    • 5th Jan 18, 11:48 AM
    • #8
    • 5th Jan 18, 11:48 AM
    Marliepanda
    I did read the message about shipping times but answered with the actual dates and times.
    I wasn’t expecting a huge chunk at all. But less than 10% was mean. Even a gift voucher or something as recognition that they had mucked me (and I assume many others) around right before Xmas and let down children would have been better than a few pounds over what I’d paid for postage alone.

    It seems I am maybe expecting too much for a company to live up to their promises and it is okay for them to cancel an order due to being called out on their shoddy customer care. Who knew? Yes there are other leotard companies out there but on the 22nd of December that wasnt much use to me or my daughter.

    I value the answers here as it’s naking me realise that I am probably best just walking away from the transaction and not getting bogged down in the poor customer service and silly games. It’s just disappointing.
    • spadoosh
    • By spadoosh 5th Jan 18, 11:51 AM
    • 5,204 Posts
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    spadoosh
    • #9
    • 5th Jan 18, 11:51 AM
    • #9
    • 5th Jan 18, 11:51 AM
    What point does my contract with them actually count? Or is it acceptable to keep my money for 3 months, fail to deliver on time and then just refund as they get angry with me complaining?
    Originally posted by MissusC
    Legally speaking its perfectly acceptable. You entered in to a contract, assumed a larger refund, compained about said refund and they cancelled the contract by restoring you to your original position before you received the goods. Ok theres potential opportunity costs lost but thats never been on a retailer to rectify (ie you spent the money so was unable to buy another as you didnt have any).

    It sounds like bad customer service but then im not privvy to the whole process and complaint. The old adage of the customer is always right i know to be utter tripe. Some customers arent worth having.

    They still have to post the item to you irrespective of item cost.

    The lying aspect is something you can only really speculate on. It quite simply couldve been a mistake, and someone realised a mistake when you complained. Furthermore theyve returned you to your original position before you dealt with them. Any lying has no bearing on the outcome. You might not like it but in essence theres little you can do.

    I usually find the best course of action in these scenarios is making people aware of their practices some people might be happy to deal with sellers like these but then others would rather a different kind of service. As long as your factually accurate (you cant really prove theyve lied, or at least you havent done so far) theres no issue with naming and shaming.


    Consumer rights they seem to have ticked all the boxes. Customer service is something else and usually best covered in the praise and rants section of the forum.
    Don't be angry!
    • MissusC
    • By MissusC 5th Jan 18, 11:52 AM
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    MissusC
    but your daughters disappointment and subsequent disappointment is due to your actions.
    Harsh.
    How is them failing to deliver something I ordered THREE MONTHS ago my fault?

    And why as a customer can I not express disappointment with a company without it being fair game for them to vindictively cancel a supposedly shipped order? My email to them said I was disappointed and I did not think it fairly reflected the alternate offer of a leotard. That was all- I did not refuse it nor insult them.
    • MissusC
    • By MissusC 5th Jan 18, 11:58 AM
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    MissusC
    I!!!8217;m really surprised that the consumer doesn!!!8217;t have any rights for delivery on time as agreed. But I will take this on board and walk away with my head held high.
    It may not have been lying as such but their dispatch notice certainly was not accurate was it? And how convenient to notice a !!!8220;mistake!!!8221; after a complaint. It makes a mockery of consumer rights as we are clearly better off accepting poor customer service and shutting up in order to receive the goods we have paid for, yes?
    I dont think that many people here on MSE will be that interested in the praise and rants section to be honest, but I may document my experiences in a factual manner and share on the Gym Forums on Facebook etc in order to warn others of the shoddy customer service of BK Gymwear.
    • spadoosh
    • By spadoosh 5th Jan 18, 12:00 PM
    • 5,204 Posts
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    spadoosh
    Harsh.
    How is them failing to deliver something I ordered THREE MONTHS ago my fault?

    And why as a customer can I not express disappointment with a company without it being fair game for them to vindictively cancel a supposedly shipped order? My email to them said I was disappointed and I did not think it fairly reflected the alternate offer of a leotard. That was all- I did not refuse it nor insult them.
    Originally posted by MissusC
    Telling your daughter about a christmas present that had not arrived was a risk, theres always a risk something will not show up. I remember a christmas when my mum called me in on christmas eve in tears to tell me a present hadnt arrived. Had she not told me i would never have known. I was gutted my mum was upset, not because i didnt get a present.

    You can express disappointment. They can also choose who their customers are.

    It looks like youve got a complaint about customer service, not consumer rights.
    Don't be angry!
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 5th Jan 18, 12:00 PM
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    marliepanda
    Harsh.
    How is them failing to deliver something I ordered THREE MONTHS ago my fault?

    And why as a customer can I not express disappointment with a company without it being fair game for them to vindictively cancel a supposedly shipped order? My email to them said I was disappointed and I did not think it fairly reflected the alternate offer of a leotard. That was all- I did not refuse it nor insult them.
    Originally posted by MissusC
    Maybe in future surprise your daughter, or say 'there's something coming which hasn't quite made it in the post, but it'll be here soon.' rather than showing her the exact thing from a company which hadn't exactly been 100% reliable so far... If you hadn't told her, she'd be none the wiser. Shes only disappointed because you told her something would be there and now it isn't.

    Your first reply said you were 'shocked and annoyed and replied to that effect.' That is quite different to 'disappointed' and I'd be interested to see what you actually said in your email and how polite it was.

    I would be interested to see what your actual email said but they may have simply decided for £30 it wasn't worth them sending it, as maybe they felt another complaint or chargeback would be forthcoming...
    • BoGoF
    • By BoGoF 5th Jan 18, 12:00 PM
    • 3,216 Posts
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    BoGoF
    Chalk it down to experience and move on - if it were me I would have cancelled if not received 4 weeks after order.
    • MissusC
    • By MissusC 5th Jan 18, 12:24 PM
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    MissusC
    !!!8220;I am further disappointed by the very small refund. That is only a few pounds more than the postage I paid. I expected something around the £10-15 mark, given a leotard was the alternative choice. I am saddened by this level of service.!!!8221;

    This was my actual email.

    I will chalk up to experience, and I!!!8217;m glad to say that my daughter whilst disappointed will happily choose another leotard from another company.
    • shaun from Africa
    • By shaun from Africa 5th Jan 18, 12:48 PM
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    shaun from Africa
    It's possible that the order was dispatched then recalled from the courier.

    A few weeks ago, I placed an order for birdseed which showed an estimated dispatch time of two days and a delivery time of 5-6 days from ordering.
    After 6 days I hadn't heard anything so I contacted the company who advised me that my order had been sent out that morning and would be delivered in 3-4 days but as this wouldn't have been any use (as there wouldn't have been anyone available to sign for the goods), I asked them to cancel it.

    They did so and contacted the courier to get their goods back. (I was copied in on the e-mails so I know that this happened).
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 5th Jan 18, 7:49 PM
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    unholyangel
    I hope I’m replying in the right places, apologies if not.

    I didn’t say it ruined or spoiled my child’s Christmas. I said she had been let down, and she has.

    The company emailed the shipping notice on the 2nd of January at 8.20pm and the cancellation (“at my request”) yesterday (the 4th) at 5.30pm. So this is what I mean by lying.
    My “angry” message was simply saying I was further disappointed by their refund which was less than 10% of the item cost given that £3.50 of the total price was postage.

    Thank you for your answers.
    Originally posted by MissusC
    Unless i'm mistaken, the total cost was £36. You tell us £3.50 of that was for delivery which leaves £32.50 for the leotard. It should be immediately obvious that £6.50 is 20% of the item price so not sure why you think its less than 10%.

    Also to note even if you could enforce the contract, it would only be for the 1 leotard @ £36. You wouldn't be able to force them to offer 2 for 1 or even the original discount of £6.50 that they offered.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
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