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  • FIRST POST
    • systematic1
    • By systematic1 5th Jan 18, 8:33 AM
    • 11Posts
    • 3Thanks
    systematic1
    600 Euro fine in lanzarote!!! anyone able to advise??
    • #1
    • 5th Jan 18, 8:33 AM
    600 Euro fine in lanzarote!!! anyone able to advise?? 5th Jan 18 at 8:33 AM
    Hello all,
    Apologies for the new thread but this is not a standard parking fine, in fact it's not exactly a parking issue at all...

    During a surfing holiday in Lanzarote back in may I parked at a beach within the National Park. It's a popular place, beach goers park along either side of a narrow road, and we did the same. Yesterday I received a 17 page dossier (in Spanish) accusing me of raping the environment.

    Its from Guardia Civil, Medioambiente. Essentially like the environment agency here but part of the police force. They produced photo's of my hire car parked with 2 wheels on the sand. This constitutes an infingement of their environmental laws and carries a fine of between 600 & 6000 euros, my fine being at the former end of the scale.

    If this was in the UK I'd know how to fight it, there was zero signage for example. But it's not in the Uk.

    So should I.....Pay up (20% reduction), contest (losing 20% reduction and probably requiring a lawyer and a trip to lanzarote) or ingnore and never set foot on Spanish soil again????

    From what I can translate my letter contains: an initial charge from Guardia Civil to the hire company, a document naming me as the driver from the hire company, and minutes from court proceedings decreeing that I am liable.

    It's definitely genuine before anyone suggests otherwise, but scams are harder to ignore when they are run by the government....

    Any experts on Spanish law out there?!?!?!
Page 2
    • Johno100
    • By Johno100 5th Jan 18, 1:11 PM
    • 3,766 Posts
    • 4,435 Thanks
    Johno100
    As this is a non-parking or traffic violation, would the hire company t&c allow them to charge your card? Check their t&c.
    Originally posted by Guys Dad
    Good question, I do get the impression that this is a local Spanish car hire firm rather than one based here or a multinational, so the system and their ability to charge may be different. And I'd have thought they'd have billed the OP already rather than seemingly just giving his name up to the authorities as the hirer.
    • unforeseen
    • By unforeseen 5th Jan 18, 1:16 PM
    • 2,679 Posts
    • 3,430 Thanks
    unforeseen
    The hire company aren't involved. They provided the hirer's details to the Guardia Civil. The court case was against the hirer whole has been found guilty & fined !!!8364;600.
    • Kirchenmaus
    • By Kirchenmaus 5th Jan 18, 5:40 PM
    • 49 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    Kirchenmaus
    The hire company aren't involved. They provided the hirer's details to the Guardia Civil. The court case was against the hirer whole has been found guilty & fined 600.
    Originally posted by unforeseen
    If this is the first the OP has heard of this proceeding, it would be incompatible with Article 6 of the ECHR to have denied him his right to a fair trial. "...Everyone is entitled to a fair and public hearing within a reasonable time by an independent and impartial tribunal..." There are other provisions in Article 6 relating to being informed, promptly and in detail about the nature of the accusation against him, and this must be done in a language the defendant understands. Maybe the "minutes from a court proceeding" mentioned by the OP is not a record of his conviction, but of his charge? In any case, the first step would be to write back and request that the documents be provided in English.

    It is important for the OP to understand exactly what he has been charged with, and how it has been determined to charge him with it. One question I would have is who is liable for such offences? The person who parked the vehicle, or the hirer of the vehicle? Were enquiries made to determine the driver (e.g., like a s.172 request in the UK), or is it possible for the hirer to transfer liability (as it appears to have been for the hire company) by naming the driver now?

    The hire company would usually charge an "admin fee" to respond to any official enquiry, and their terms and conditions would usually allow them to charge the hirer's credit card. It's worth checking the exact provisions of the hire agreement to see if this particular offence (and the police enquiry about it) would be covered by those provisions. If not, the credit card company should reverse the charge.

    --Kirchenmaus
    • unforeseen
    • By unforeseen 5th Jan 18, 6:15 PM
    • 2,679 Posts
    • 3,430 Thanks
    unforeseen
    Your assumptions are based on the theory that UK law translates directly to a Spanish equivalent, not guaranteed to be the case

    Spanish law allows for court proceedings to go ahead without he presence of the defendant.
    Procedure for Misdemeanours

    This is an easy and quick criminal procedure involving the prosecution of misdemeanors.

    A misdemeanor case usually proceeds to trial on an information or a criminal complaint.
    . Neither attorney at court nor the lawyer intervention is required.

    The trial shall be held at the Court of Instruction (Juzgado de Instrucci!n) or before the Justice of Peace (Juzgado de Paz) of the district where the misdemeanor has been committed.

    The parties usually submit their statements and outline of what they intend to prove in the same hearing.

    The aggrieved party is entitled to claim for civil liability (responsabilidad civil) during the criminal process, it means that he may request compensation for the damages suffered.

    The Public Prosecutor (!!!8220;Fiscal!!!8221;) will be involved in those cases that he must act ex officio or on an information. He could not act in those cases that the misdemeanor mayonly be prosecuted whenever the aggrieved party had stated a complaint against it.

    In the event the defendant fails to appear at court at the time promised in the citation, the trial will usually continue, given that the citation was legally made. Adecision may nonetheless be entered against him as he is considered to agree with the facts the claimant state. Where it is the claimant who does not attend the court on the day named, the case will then be filed.

    You may present your appeal to the original court that passed the sentence, it will be the higher court which shall reconsider the case.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 5th Jan 18, 7:37 PM
    • 7,571 Posts
    • 10,084 Thanks
    beamerguy
    Your assumptions are based on the theory that UK law translates directly to a Spanish equivalent, not guaranteed to be the case

    Spanish law allows for court proceedings to go ahead without he presence of the defendant.
    Originally posted by unforeseen
    UK county courts also allow this hence the number
    of CCJ's issued

    With the best will in the world, I doubt that anyone on
    here could give you advice about spanish law

    You need to find out what will happen if you
    do not pay the fine so maybe a lawyer versed
    in spanish law
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 5th Jan 18, 7:48 PM
    • 2,422 Posts
    • 4,315 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    Not an expert on Spanish law but do have Spanish family. I can tell you that if there is an outstanding issue when entering Spain (where there are checks) you do run the risk of it being flagged and having a free night's accommodation.

    Whether you want to spend !!!8364;600 to avoid the issue is your choice. It more a potential inconvenience rather than a hard legal issue.
    Idiots please note: If you intend NOT to read the information on the Notice of Allocation and hand a simple win to the knuckle dragging ex-clampers, then don't waste people's time with questions on a claim you'll not defend.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Jan 18, 11:43 PM
    • 58,576 Posts
    • 72,084 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    You might like to post on the Legal Beagles forum/website which covers more general queries than just 'parking'.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Kirchenmaus
    • By Kirchenmaus 6th Jan 18, 11:44 AM
    • 49 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    Kirchenmaus
    Your assumptions are based on the theory that UK law translates directly to a Spanish equivalent, not guaranteed to be the case

    Spanish law allows for court proceedings to go ahead without he presence of the defendant.
    Originally posted by unforeseen
    I haven't made any assumptions. The ECHR definitely applies to Spain, so the question is whether this was the only correspondence the OP has received from the Spanish authorities, or if there had been previous proceedings which he had not attended. If the latter, the OP needs to understand if the proper Spanish procedures were indeed followed. I don't know what those procedures are, so I cannot comment.

    I do know, for example, that one of the required steps in an Italian traffic prosecution is for the accused to have been served with a notice of prosecution using registered post and a signature obtained on delivery. If this does not happen (n.b., don't sign for anything!) then the correct procedure has not been followed. Something similar might be required in Spain, in which case any proceedings that nevertheless take place would be flawed and, perhaps, challengeable on that basis.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 6th Jan 18, 3:38 PM
    • 58,576 Posts
    • 72,084 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Changed your name, I see.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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