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    • Sea Shell
    • By Sea Shell 5th Jan 18, 7:54 AM
    • 779Posts
    • 1,055Thanks
    Sea Shell
    Keeping Money and Family Separate
    • #1
    • 5th Jan 18, 7:54 AM
    Keeping Money and Family Separate 5th Jan 18 at 7:54 AM
    It is often said that Money and Family shouldn't mix....but in reality are you ever able to completely separate the two, especially if there are discrepancies of wealth within the family?

    This can manifest itself in subtle ways.....meals out, lifts out and about, generally being expected to pay for/do things.

    As we've read, it can also manifest itself in less subtle ways.....the biggy being disinherited.

    How do you keep finances out of family affairs? Or do you think you shouldn't, and that you should distribute your wealth to them, without question?
    " That pound I saved yesterday, is a pound I don't have to earn tomorrow "
Page 2
    • Fireflyaway
    • By Fireflyaway 5th Jan 18, 5:35 PM
    • 1,813 Posts
    • 1,963 Thanks
    Fireflyaway
    I have a small family. My parents have helped me financially in many ways and I'm very grateful. I plan to do the same with my child once I'm able.
    My parents just lent me money to buy a car. The fact they trust me to repay it makes me feel so happy!
    On the other side we have an in-law who I don't trust one bit. He basically stole some of my husbands inheritance. He doesn't know we know. Wasn't a huge sum but its the fact he was deceitful.
    So to sum up I think it depends on the level of trust.
    • thorsoak
    • By thorsoak 5th Jan 18, 6:15 PM
    • 5,662 Posts
    • 25,939 Thanks
    thorsoak
    If your driving a tin can maybe. Could be double that in fuel cost alone. Possibly as much 25-30 per round trip in fuel alone
    Originally posted by svain
    My 16-reg car does 52 mpg- surely that is not unusual? If you are driving an old gas-guzzler yes!
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 5th Jan 18, 7:39 PM
    • 20,187 Posts
    • 54,169 Thanks
    Pollycat
    Surely that is a case of spending TIME between daughter/mother - do you begrudge that? A round trip of 60 miles would take between one and two gallons of petrol - is that a deal-breaker?
    Originally posted by thorsoak
    It could be more about time than money.
    • thorsoak
    • By thorsoak 5th Jan 18, 9:12 PM
    • 5,662 Posts
    • 25,939 Thanks
    thorsoak
    It could be more about time than money.
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    My thoughts exactly - sounds as if OP is begrudging the time that his OH is spending with her mother.
    • maman
    • By maman 5th Jan 18, 9:29 PM
    • 18,004 Posts
    • 107,724 Thanks
    maman
    My approach is always to take the moral high ground. Take the opportunity to do everything you can for your MIL and feel smug knowing you're behaviour is exemplary.

    It can be infuriating if you know she could well afford to buy you a coffee or that she behaves differently with others but I'd still feel good knowing I was beyond criticism.

    Obviously if it's causing you financial hardship then you'll have to limit your generosity and you'll have to talk to her about maybe paying for petrol or something but otherwise I'd just go with it.
    • Tabbytabitha
    • By Tabbytabitha 5th Jan 18, 9:46 PM
    • 2,598 Posts
    • 4,305 Thanks
    Tabbytabitha
    My thoughts exactly - sounds as if OP is begrudging the time that his OH is spending with her mother.
    Originally posted by thorsoak
    I read it that the OP was driving the mil round, not that the mil's child was doing it.
    • maman
    • By maman 5th Jan 18, 10:16 PM
    • 18,004 Posts
    • 107,724 Thanks
    maman
    I read it that the OP was driving the mil round, not that the mil's child was doing it.
    Originally posted by Tabbytabitha
    That's how I read it too. DIL driving MIL around. Not heard anything about what the son/DH thinks about the situation.
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 5th Jan 18, 10:39 PM
    • 38,613 Posts
    • 35,341 Thanks
    Savvy_Sue
    An example then.....say your MIL wants to go browsing/shopping, for non-essential household items, but they don't drive (or use the internet), so they ask you to take them, which involves a 60 mile round trip (from your house to theirs, onto the shop they want to visit, and back again) You don't mind doing it once, maybe even twice, but with no offer or the hint of any petrol money (or a Costa coffee) for your trouble, at what point do you say, no sorry!
    Originally posted by Sea Shell
    My parents never drove, so I don't think they ever 'got' how much it costs to run a car, or how tiring it can be to drive: all you were doing was sitting in the car alongside them, so why would you be tired?

    Still, they would often pay for lunch or coffee if I was running them around.
    Still knitting!
    Completed: 1 adult cardigan, 3 baby jumpers, 3 shawls, 1 sweat band, 3 pairs baby bootees,
    1 Wise Man Knitivity figure + 1 sheep, 2 pairs socks, 2 hats 2 balaclavas for seamen, 1 balaclava for myself ...
    Current projects: Poppies, mohair cardigan pattern arrived and going strong!
    • sooty&sweep
    • By sooty&sweep 5th Jan 18, 11:15 PM
    • 1,200 Posts
    • 1,412 Thanks
    sooty&sweep
    Sorry but I don't think you can keep money out of family affairs.
    Personally I don't judge gifts based on their monetary value rather the thought behind them.
    A member of my husband's family always makes & gives food gifts. Probably don't cost a fortune to make but I look forward to them every year & as far as I'm concerned they're priceless !
    Time is a far more valuable gift !
    There are some years when we've felt more flush than others & our Christmas gifts are more expensive than other years but that is our choice !
    Jen
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 6th Jan 18, 8:20 AM
    • 16,720 Posts
    • 41,339 Thanks
    FBaby
    In your scenario, it really depends.

    Family members can sometimes repay in other way or at a delayed time. For instance, I've just sent some flowers to a friend for no specific occasion but just to say they are a fantastic friend because they do little things for me that I don't reciprocate always immediately.

    Sometimes they can repay by being a good listener, babysitting, helping with arranging things, etc...

    The other matter is that it could 'just the way they are'. You then have to decide whether you accept it or not. I have some issues with some things my MIL does or doesn't do which really irritates me, but I go along with it because firstly she is getting old and getting more and more emotional (and aggressive) which is quite common at that age, secondly out of respect for my OH who adores his mum (and who does appreciate my efforts) and finally because it's just easier to go along than to start some conflict.

    I have however distanced myself quite a bit recently, and that she had to accept.
    • Lover of Lycra
    • By Lover of Lycra 6th Jan 18, 9:02 AM
    • 163 Posts
    • 728 Thanks
    Lover of Lycra
    Sounds familiar!!!

    I wasn't thinking within the household, but other immediate/in laws family.

    At what point does your generosity wain....as you feel your ability to pay is taken advantage of.
    Originally posted by Sea Shell
    I'm not sure. It used to bother me that they never say thank you. It does irk me slightly that they're not in the least bit shy about how much they order in restaurants or suggest a restaurant that is a bit pricey. For example, a couple of years ago I invited my family to the panto, I invited them so I paid for all the tickets - no problem there. My mum then offered to take everyone out for dinner afterwards and suggested a Frankie and Benny's type place but instead my brother wants to go to some fancier and therefore more expensive Italian restaurant. They're not shy about ordering beer, wine, etc but guess who the designated drivers are...mum and I.

    I've never done it again. I don't quite know how to feel about it because on one hand I think they take the Michael but on the other if we are going out as a family I do want them to enjoy themselves.

    Dad has a significant birthday coming up this year and I think he would like a family meal at his favourite restaurant so I might just have to suck it up. It doesn't help that eating meals with them is like feeding time at the zoo. No table manners whatsoever.
    • Lover of Lycra
    • By Lover of Lycra 6th Jan 18, 9:05 AM
    • 163 Posts
    • 728 Thanks
    Lover of Lycra
    Like i said that was a hypothetical situation....just an example of the sort of thing that can be quite draining, both mentally and financially.

    I wouldn't necessarily accept offer of payment towards fuel etc. but it would be nice to be offered!! If I were the one wanting others to go out of their way for me, I would be offering, regardless of the financial situation of the person helping.

    I was really trying to get at how people are treated differently within families, based whether you have money or not. and if you do...things are assumed.

    Anyway, i guess i was just wanting a bit of a rant....but i can't post the specifics, as we have a very unique and strange family dynamic when it comes to finances...and they'd recognise themselves immeditately if i told the whole story (and if they read it - i'd be mortified)

    I love them, but they take up too much of my headspace with their financial dramas....and i have a feeling i'm going to be left holding the financial can somewhere down the line.

    I'd like to be able to just see them and spend time with them, without there being an alterior motive that seems to end up costing me money!
    Originally posted by Sea Shell


    Yes this sounds very familiar.
    • maman
    • By maman 6th Jan 18, 2:03 PM
    • 18,004 Posts
    • 107,724 Thanks
    maman
    I'm not sure. It used to bother me that they never say thank you. It does irk me slightly that they're not in the least bit shy about how much they order in restaurants or suggest a restaurant that is a bit pricey. For example, a couple of years ago I invited my family to the panto, I invited them so I paid for all the tickets - no problem there. My mum then offered to take everyone out for dinner afterwards and suggested a Frankie and Benny's type place but instead my brother wants to go to some fancier and therefore more expensive Italian restaurant. They're not shy about ordering beer, wine, etc but guess who the designated drivers are...mum and I.

    I've never done it again. I don't quite know how to feel about it because on one hand I think they take the Michael but on the other if we are going out as a family I do want them to enjoy themselves.

    Dad has a significant birthday coming up this year and I think he would like a family meal at his favourite restaurant so I might just have to suck it up. It doesn't help that eating meals with them is like feeding time at the zoo. No table manners whatsoever.
    Originally posted by Lover of Lycra

    I get the point about your brother choosing a more expensive restaurant. That's up to your mum to speak up if she only wants to pay for a chain. But surely you'd have still been the designated drivers whichever restaurant you went to?
    Last edited by maman; 06-01-2018 at 7:05 PM.
    • ska lover
    • By ska lover 6th Jan 18, 3:57 PM
    • 2,752 Posts
    • 6,696 Thanks
    ska lover
    I'm not sure. It used to bother me that they never say thank you. It does irk me slightly that they're not in the least bit shy about how much they order in restaurants or suggest a restaurant that is a bit pricey. For example, a couple of years ago I invited my family to the panto, I invited them so I paid for all the tickets - no problem there. My mum then offered to take everyone out for dinner afterwards and suggested a Frankie and Benny's type place but instead my brother wants to go to some fancier and therefore more expensive Italian restaurant. They're not shy about ordering beer, wine, etc but guess who the designated drivers are...mum and I.

    I've never done it again. I don't quite know how to feel about it because on one hand I think they take the Michael but on the other if we are going out as a family I do want them to enjoy themselves.

    Dad has a significant birthday coming up this year and I think he would like a family meal at his favourite restaurant so I might just have to suck it up. It doesn't help that eating meals with them is like feeding time at the zoo. No table manners whatsoever.
    Originally posted by Lover of Lycra
    But you dont need to take responsibility for everything - I mean, don't be the designated driver, get a taxi or have a drink and relax - I mean they are all adults and should be able to get themselves home safely. It is not your problem who enjoys themselves and who doesnt
    The opposite of what you know...is also true
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 6th Jan 18, 4:02 PM
    • 20,187 Posts
    • 54,169 Thanks
    Pollycat
    I'm not sure. It used to bother me that they never say thank you. It does irk me slightly that they're not in the least bit shy about how much they order in restaurants or suggest a restaurant that is a bit pricey. For example, a couple of years ago I invited my family to the panto, I invited them so I paid for all the tickets - no problem there. My mum then offered to take everyone out for dinner afterwards and suggested a Frankie and Benny's type place but instead my brother wants to go to some fancier and therefore more expensive Italian restaurant. They're not shy about ordering beer, wine, etc but guess who the designated drivers are...mum and I.

    I've never done it again. I don't quite know how to feel about it because on one hand I think they take the Michael but on the other if we are going out as a family I do want them to enjoy themselves.

    Dad has a significant birthday coming up this year and I think he would like a family meal at his favourite restaurant so I might just have to suck it up. It doesn't help that eating meals with them is like feeding time at the zoo. No table manners whatsoever.
    Originally posted by Lover of Lycra
    If it bothers you enough that you subsidise your family's expensive eating & drinking habits, say 'no' to their restaurant suggestions.
    And tell them you'll pay for what you eat & drink.
    • dunroving
    • By dunroving 6th Jan 18, 5:57 PM
    • 1,259 Posts
    • 873 Thanks
    dunroving
    I really dislike the expectation that I will leave my money to anyone in particular when I die. I earned it, I'll leave it to whomever I want (or even spend it all!) I'm unmarried with no kids and I'm sure certain members of the family are probably rubbing their hands at the thought of a windfall when I croak.

    Having said that, if I planned to leave it all to charity and leave all F&F out of my will, I'd want to explain why before the unexpected happens. Similarly, if there were anything that were "uneven" (e.g., leaving more to one nephew than to another), I'd probably either explain it beforehand or explain it to the executors.

    I think wills are the biggest source of grief because the cause of any perceived unfairness is deceased, so you can't ask Why. And like it or not, uneven treatment can be perceived as saying something about how much you liked one person over another.

    At least with the living, you can talk out perceived injustices.
    (Nearly) dunroving
    • dunroving
    • By dunroving 6th Jan 18, 6:01 PM
    • 1,259 Posts
    • 873 Thanks
    dunroving
    If it bothers you enough that you subsidise your family's expensive eating & drinking habits, say 'no' to their restaurant suggestions.
    And tell them you'll pay for what you eat & drink.
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    Have to agree with this. Some people put up with crap and moan about it rather than sticking up for themselves (not referring to the OP there).

    I know several friends and family who no longer give money to people who don't know how to say Thank You. I've loaned money to friends in the past and despite several, "Oh, I must pay you back that 50 quid" episodes, I never saw it again. Guess what? The money is written off and no further loans ... (I've given plenty of cash gifts also, but there is a distinct difference between a loan and a gift).
    (Nearly) dunroving
    • maman
    • By maman 6th Jan 18, 7:20 PM
    • 18,004 Posts
    • 107,724 Thanks
    maman
    Have to agree with this. Some people put up with crap and moan about it rather than sticking up for themselves (not referring to the OP there).

    I know several friends and family who no longer give money to people who don't know how to say Thank You. I've loaned money to friends in the past and despite several, "Oh, I must pay you back that 50 quid" episodes, I never saw it again. Guess what? The money is written off and no further loans ... (I've given plenty of cash gifts also, but there is a distinct difference between a loan and a gift).
    Originally posted by dunroving

    It's often posted on these boards that you should never lend money unless you're prepared to never see it again. I agree.


    I'd never been asked for a loan until a few months back. I told the person concerned to consider it a gift. She was embarrassed at having to ask but I have to say that she's gone down in my estimation at putting herself in that position. Basically she'd given up a job before getting another one (against my advice which was asked for at the time) and then found it tough without a pay cheque for a month or so. I know while she and her DH were both working they had plenty of money coming in so shouldn't have been living month to month. Obviously living beyond their means.


    So, to come back to OP. Yes, I'd still drive the MIL around and give her lunch or whatever (provided you can afford it) but I don't blame you for feeling the way you do. Don't forget though, you're in control of the situation. If you want to stop you can, just like if my 'friend' gets into a mess again through drifting from job to job I don't need to help out.
    • Sea Shell
    • By Sea Shell 7th Jan 18, 7:13 AM
    • 779 Posts
    • 1,055 Thanks
    Sea Shell
    I'm still waiting for some Christmas thankyou's, not had so much as a text!. Maybe Santa's going to miss their chimneys next year!! - but no doubt that'd cause a ruck.

    I'm not a pushover by any means....but if I were to speak my mind and put my foot down, it would only cause ill feeling...if not irreparable damage. So i'll suck it up on the small stuff...but if they really start to take the pxxx, then they'd better watch out!!!

    Someone earlier mentioned that maybe they reciprocate in other ways/times. Err No. We are pretty self sufficient and haven't had to ask for anything from them, or help with anything, and now, even if we did NEED them, they wouldn't be able to help. One way traffic there.
    " That pound I saved yesterday, is a pound I don't have to earn tomorrow "
    • Lover of Lycra
    • By Lover of Lycra 7th Jan 18, 10:16 AM
    • 163 Posts
    • 728 Thanks
    Lover of Lycra
    I get the point about your brother choosing a more expensive restaurant. That's up to your mum to speak up if she only wants to pay for a chain. But surely you'd have still been the designated drivers whichever restaurant you went to?
    Originally posted by maman
    Yes my mum should have put her foot down but for an easy life she just says yes. It happened a lot when we were young which is why I guess he still throws tantrums as an adult. For example, when I took them on on holiday he had a massive tantrum at the airport which was all my fault apparently. I like getting to the airport in plenty of time whereas my brother flies by the seat of his pants and is known to regularly miss busses, trains, planes, turn up late for job interviews, etc. I don't smoke so it didn't register with me that there is nowhere to smoke after security at this particular airport. Him not being able to have a cigarette was all my fault because I got them to the airport "too early."

    I end up being the designated driver because my parents live in a small village where public transport, particularly in the evenings, is poor and whilst we could get a taxi my dad is one of those people who has an issue with using taxis (waste of money etc etc). When I come to visit I stay with my parents so it's a taxi or someone drives. My dad can't see well enough to drive at night and when my dad is a passenger in their car my mum is a nervous wreck driving so I end up doing it. My brother's family live elsewhere and yes should really be paying for their own transportation but then if I'm taking my car (with dad as a passenger) she will drive her car.
    Last edited by Lover of Lycra; 07-01-2018 at 10:20 AM.
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