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  • FIRST POST
    • thriftyarek888
    • By thriftyarek888 4th Jan 18, 8:48 AM
    • 87Posts
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    thriftyarek888
    -= Why is rubbish not burned?
    • #1
    • 4th Jan 18, 8:48 AM
    -= Why is rubbish not burned? 4th Jan 18 at 8:48 AM
    Jan




    I am thinking that UK gov is not doing its duty by not burning enough plastics and making electricity. But by sending waste to China. Chinese gov being such laying, scamming, thieving dirt bags not many know what they do with waste.


    This is pointed out here:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5233431/Councils-drastic-action-plastic.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign= 1490
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Page 1
    • glentoran99
    • By glentoran99 4th Jan 18, 8:53 AM
    • 5,346 Posts
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    glentoran99
    • #2
    • 4th Jan 18, 8:53 AM
    • #2
    • 4th Jan 18, 8:53 AM
    from the article you posted, the answer


    whereas if you put it in an incinerator, all the carbon and plastic is burnt and released into the atmosphere.!!!8217;

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5233431/Councils-drastic-action-plastic.html#ixzz53CiqiIFK
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    • giraffe69
    • By giraffe69 4th Jan 18, 9:18 AM
    • 2,386 Posts
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    giraffe69
    • #3
    • 4th Jan 18, 9:18 AM
    • #3
    • 4th Jan 18, 9:18 AM
    Not sure quoting the Daily Mail will provide absolute accuracy. As pointed out burning rubbish provides damaging waste. Maybe we should look at changing our use? The success of the 5p tax on carrier bags shows how simple it might be. A deposit system for plastic bottles might help.
    • lstar337
    • By lstar337 4th Jan 18, 9:24 AM
    • 3,367 Posts
    • 1,844 Thanks
    lstar337
    • #4
    • 4th Jan 18, 9:24 AM
    • #4
    • 4th Jan 18, 9:24 AM
    I am thinking that UK gov is not doing its duty by not burning enough plastics and making electricity. But by sending waste to China. Chinese gov being such laying, scamming, thieving dirt bags not many know what they do with waste.


    This is pointed out here:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5233431/Councils-drastic-action-plastic.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign= 1490
    Originally posted by thriftyarek888
    I was really perplexed by the content of your post at first. The seeming complete lack of thought, combined with unnecessary hate made it read like a joke.

    Then I saw the Daily Mail link and it all made sense.
    • Dia Pita
    • By Dia Pita 4th Jan 18, 9:31 AM
    • 92 Posts
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    Dia Pita
    • #5
    • 4th Jan 18, 9:31 AM
    • #5
    • 4th Jan 18, 9:31 AM
    A lot of plastics use is dictated by the manufacturers, e.g plastic bottles for milk instead of glass bottles. Surely the government needs to tax those manufacturers that produce or use the plastics, or legislate to ensure the manufacturers are responsible for the recycling of their products after use.

    Debt Free Aug 15 Mortgage Free Aug 16
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    • footyguy
    • By footyguy 4th Jan 18, 9:34 AM
    • 4,136 Posts
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    footyguy
    • #6
    • 4th Jan 18, 9:34 AM
    • #6
    • 4th Jan 18, 9:34 AM
    There are incinerators in this country that can produce energy, but there are drawbacks such as capital investment, cost of operation (inc after-treatment), not to mention many people do not want them in their backyard.

    Futhermore, it's the government's aim that we should reduce waste, and any waste we do produce is recycled, re-used etc as far as possible, and this incineration should not compete with this.

    If you are interested in how the government is acting to handle waste, and produce energy from that which cannot be re-used, recycled, etc, please take a read of this article
    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/284612/pb14130-energy-waste-201402.pdf
    • Robin9
    • By Robin9 4th Jan 18, 12:20 PM
    • 2,673 Posts
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    Robin9
    • #7
    • 4th Jan 18, 12:20 PM
    • #7
    • 4th Jan 18, 12:20 PM
    My local council now incinerates waste that cannot be recycled.

    I agree there is a excess of packaging - paper coffee cups, takeway trays , margerine plasics - which ought to be legislated to prevent their use.
    Never pay on an estimated bill
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 4th Jan 18, 1:19 PM
    • 5,247 Posts
    • 13,983 Thanks
    EachPenny
    • #8
    • 4th Jan 18, 1:19 PM
    • #8
    • 4th Jan 18, 1:19 PM
    I am thinking that UK gov is not doing its duty by not burning enough plastics and making electricity. But by sending waste to China. Chinese gov being such laying, scamming, thieving dirt bags not many know what they do with waste.
    Originally posted by thriftyarek888
    We aren't - or shouldn't be - sending our waste to China. There appears to be confusion about what is 'waste' and what is recyclables being exported to China, often the place where the materials originated from in the form of products or packaging.

    And if the plastic cannot currently be recycled then we should be burying it, not burning it.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 4th Jan 18, 1:24 PM
    • 5,247 Posts
    • 13,983 Thanks
    EachPenny
    • #9
    • 4th Jan 18, 1:24 PM
    • #9
    • 4th Jan 18, 1:24 PM
    A lot of plastics use is dictated by the manufacturers, e.g plastic bottles for milk instead of glass bottles. Surely the government needs to tax those manufacturers that produce or use the plastics, or legislate to ensure the manufacturers are responsible for the recycling of their products after use.
    Originally posted by Dia Pita
    I once lost an argument to an environmentalist who told me plastic milk bottles were better than glass. The energy consumed to make glass, and then to clean and sterilise bottles, outweighs the dis-benefit of making a plastic bottle which is then thrown away.

    That was many years ago and things might have changed since then, but importantly recycling of plastic bottles was unheard of then, so if anything I would expect the environmental balance to have shifted further in favour of plastic. (so long as consumers are responsible and recycle their milk bottles).
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 4th Jan 18, 1:49 PM
    • 5,936 Posts
    • 3,657 Thanks
    Hengus
    Burning rubbish is not a cheap option for local taxpayers:

    http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/15158406.Ready_to_raze__Worcestershire_s___165m_in cinerator_is_handed_over/
    • matelodave
    • By matelodave 4th Jan 18, 2:02 PM
    • 3,590 Posts
    • 2,230 Thanks
    matelodave
    They wanted to build one about 20 miles from me near Kings Lynn in Norfolk.

    There was intense opposition and they never actually got planning permission for it but the Council managed to squander £34m before the project was eventually shelved.

    Not many people want one near where they live, nor the squadrons of lorries to keep it fed.
    Love makes the world go round - beer make it go round even faster
    Look after our planet - it's the only one with beer
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 4th Jan 18, 2:08 PM
    • 3,850 Posts
    • 5,291 Thanks
    Nick_C
    We aren't - or shouldn't be - sending our waste to China. There appears to be confusion about what is 'waste' and what is recyclables being exported to China, often the place where the materials originated from in the form of products or packaging.

    And if the plastic cannot currently be recycled then we should be burying it, not burning it.
    Originally posted by EachPenny
    According to reports, China has banned imports of waste plastics and paper for recycling because the quality was poor.

    The drive to increase the percentage of waste (by weight) that is recycled has ended up producing lower quality materials that UK waste merchants do not want.

    I don't see a problem with incinerating waste as long as the incinerators are cited where the heat can be used. I would like to see mini CHP (combined heat and power plants) incorporated in or close to new housing developments.

    We have a glut of waste and a shortage of fuel, and modern incinerators remove contaminants from their emissions. I wouldn't have a problem living next to one. You can also recycle the metals and residues that come out of the incinerators.

    Recycling plastics adds little to the percentage of waste recyled due to the low density. Plastics have a high calorific value and make good fuel.

    Recycling plastics uses a lot of energy. Transportation to a sorting facility, energy used to carry out sorting, further transportation to a specialist plastics sorting facility for anything other than types 1 and 2, all to produce a product that nobody wants.

    Re plastic v glass, the same applies to plastic v paper. Plastic bags are more environmentally friendly than paper bags because of the energy requirements to produce and transport them.
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 4th Jan 18, 2:16 PM
    • 3,850 Posts
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    Nick_C
    Not cheap, but cheaper than sending it to landfill.
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 4th Jan 18, 2:32 PM
    • 5,247 Posts
    • 13,983 Thanks
    EachPenny
    They wanted to build one about 20 miles from me near Kings Lynn in Norfolk.

    There was intense opposition and they never actually got planning permission for it but the Council managed to squander £34m before the project was eventually shelved.

    Not many people want one near where they live, nor the squadrons of lorries to keep it fed.
    Originally posted by matelodave
    Hertfordshire and others have followed the same route.... in part due to government bribes to build the things.

    A far more intelligent approach would have been to build local plants to pelletise the residual waste and then transport it by rail to existing coal and bio power stations. However the 'proximity principle' was used as a reason why each council had to have their own expensive incinerator project.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 4th Jan 18, 2:42 PM
    • 5,247 Posts
    • 13,983 Thanks
    EachPenny
    According to reports, China has banned imports of waste plastics and paper for recycling because the quality was poor.
    Originally posted by Nick_C
    The reports aren't clear and the position seems to be confused. It appears the Chinese are saying the quality of materials must now be higher, not that the imports of plastic and paper have been banned outright.

    Recycling plastics adds little to the percentage of waste recyled due to the low density.
    Originally posted by Nick_C
    Which only matters if you judge the quality of your recycling arrangements on a tonnage basis (as we do). If you judge it on the basis of reuse of finite resources then things look different. Unfortunately governments are obsessed about tonnage, and ignore the quality/environmental harm aspects of waste.
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 4th Jan 18, 3:11 PM
    • 3,850 Posts
    • 5,291 Thanks
    Nick_C
    Hertfordshire and others have followed the same route.... in part due to government bribes to build the things.

    A far more intelligent approach would have been to build local plants to pelletise the residual waste and then transport it by rail to existing coal and bio power stations. However the 'proximity principle' was used as a reason why each council had to have their own expensive incinerator project.
    Originally posted by EachPenny
    Perhaps, but pre treatment (MBT) plants don't come cheap either. And if you look at the amount of raw waste and extracted recycling that is shipped around the country in 30 tonne lorries, I don't thing that is good for the environment or road congestion either. Very little waste is moved by rail. The infrastructure is no longer there. And the capacity may not be either.
    • thriftyarek888
    • By thriftyarek888 5th Jan 18, 5:46 PM
    • 87 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    thriftyarek888
    I am under the impression that if UK government build more incinerators to get rid of rubbish, converting waste in the electricity, instead of sending to the scam bags of Chinese government, that would be more beneficial for nature.
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    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 5th Jan 18, 6:25 PM
    • 5,936 Posts
    • 3,657 Thanks
    Hengus
    I am under the impression that if UK government build more incinerators to get rid of rubbish, converting waste in the electricity, instead of sending to the scam bags of Chinese government, that would be more beneficial for nature.
    Originally posted by thriftyarek888
    I couldn’t believe the public outcry when a local Council wanted to use waste heat from the local crematorium to warm the water in a nearby swimming pool. Waste incinerators are a bit like nuclear power stations - great idea, but not in my back yard.
    • Nick_C
    • By Nick_C 5th Jan 18, 6:48 PM
    • 3,850 Posts
    • 5,291 Thanks
    Nick_C
    I couldn’t believe the public outcry when a local Council wanted to use waste heat from the local crematorium to warm the water in a nearby swimming pool. Waste incinerators are a bit like nuclear power stations - great idea, but not in my back yard.
    Originally posted by Hengus
    I know of one Council that recovers Titanium from the crem ashes (from artificial hips). They don't shout about it. I'm sure they are not the only one.

    I think using the heat from Crematoria would be a great idea. But as far as I'm concerned a dead body is just waste. I'd be happy for my body to be dumped in the back of a dustcart and taken to an incinerator. Sadly the law doesn't allow that, so my NOK will have to spend a grand on the cheapest possible cremation when the time comes.
    • glentoran99
    • By glentoran99 5th Jan 18, 6:53 PM
    • 5,346 Posts
    • 4,532 Thanks
    glentoran99
    I know of one Council that recovers Titanium from the crem ashes (from artificial hips). They don't shout about it. I'm sure they are not the only one.

    I think using the heat from Crematoria would be a great idea. But as far as I'm concerned a dead body is just waste. I'd be happy for my body to be dumped in the back of a dustcart and taken to an incinerator. Sadly the law doesn't allow that, so my NOK will have to spend a grand on the cheapest possible cremation when the time comes.
    Originally posted by Nick_C


    https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/gail-walker/how-dare-belfast-city-council-take-our-loved-ones-effects-30751583.html
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