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  • FIRST POST
    • Dark Clothes Man
    • By Dark Clothes Man 3rd Jan 18, 9:43 PM
    • 12Posts
    • 2Thanks
    Dark Clothes Man
    Parking & Management Ltd
    • #1
    • 3rd Jan 18, 9:43 PM
    Parking & Management Ltd 3rd Jan 18 at 9:43 PM
    SHOULD BE PARKING & PROPERTY MANAGEMENT LTD

    Forgive typo.

    Hi to all.

    So you know, I am generally all right in fighting private parking charges so am only here for advice (i.e. I'm not in some panic mode!!).

    I am the keeper of a vehicle which was parked in a permit holders car park and subsequently, a window sticker was issued. This was discarded per usual and now I have received the first "Reminder Notice" from this bunch.

    For the record, I believe that no contract was formed between driver and landowner since this is a small-to-medium size car park located bang in a town centre: the car park has a very obvious walled perimeter, was designed for parking cars, and has a clear entrance yet there is no entrance sign. I don't believe that this location meets any of the BPA cop-out clauses on how erecting an entrance sign may be impractical. It is very practical and easy to have a legible sign telling a motorist he is entering private land and conditions apply. That's by the by.

    My curiosity is with keeper liability. None of the notices at the location mention POFA 2012. The window sticker charge notice does not mention POFA 2012 anywhere either. However, the "reminder" (presumably their idea of "notice to keeper") does state in the bottom paragraph that the keeper is being pursued subject to Schedule 4 of POFA 2012. Then right at the end of the same paragraph it threatens to lump up the demand to £160 if no payment has been made within 28 days.

    Schedule 4 is abundantly clear on the maximum figure that may be sought of a keeper and this is the figure in the notice to owner. The protocol singularly makes no provisions for tertiary fees whether applied by the parking company or by a third party collection agency acting on his behalf. I know that the third party debt collectors are inconsequential since there is no contract with them, and they are not technically qualified (or is it even their place) to assess the decree which governs the validity of private parking charge notices. It is clear to me that since PML threaten to involve outsiders and arbitrarily ramp up the charges, this cannot be within POFA 2012 and therefore keeper liability is not extended to the company in this case.

    Obviously the only way those cockroaches will get a penny out of me is when a judge rules it - no IAS, and no "appeals division" of the PPC. Until this should happen, should I report this to the BPA and other bodies for false authroity? If not false authority, then should I report the breach of the Schedule 4 maximum clause? Having looked through past court cases, I see no test case where a fee in the nature of £160 was awarded - as such, I know of no case where a defendant has needed to raise the matter of maximum figure eligible by a keeper.

    I'll scrap PPM the way I know.... but can anyone advise me on reporting to the other agencies? And do we know for sure that PPM do indeed operate within POFA 2012?

    Thanks
    Last edited by Dark Clothes Man; 03-01-2018 at 11:05 PM. Reason: PML - wrong initialism
Page 2
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 4th Jan 18, 12:11 AM
    • 2,714 Posts
    • 3,365 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Why do you keep talking about impeachment? It doesn!!!8217;t really apply here

    Don!!!8217;t appeal to the IAS.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 4th Jan 18, 12:15 AM
    • 58,322 Posts
    • 71,854 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    if the IAS with whom I have no experience (POPLA only) do side with the parking company,
    There is no ''if'' applicable. POPLA and IAS are like chalk & cheese; it will NOT work.

    Don!!!8217;t appeal to the IAS.
    Originally posted by nosferatu1001
    Indeed, there is no dilemma here. DON'T.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Dark Clothes Man
    • By Dark Clothes Man 4th Jan 18, 2:25 AM
    • 12 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Dark Clothes Man
    Why do you keep talking about impeachment? It doesnít really apply here
    Originally posted by nosferatu1001
    Impeachment: the action of calling into question the integrity or validity of something.

    Correct term which applies once the parking company breaches Schedule 4 on maximum figure sought from keeper. At the moment they are on the correct side of legislation. Once they breach it,the burden of proof will be on them to justify it when challenged. Otherwise we can ask, what the hell is meant by the protocol? And if this part should be discarded, is there any sense to what follows? How do we define which parts of POFA Schedule 4 are binding and which parts are not?

    Impeachment. That simple.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 4th Jan 18, 12:58 PM
    • 2,714 Posts
    • 3,365 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    But they cannot impeach themselves. That!!!8217;s an external act.

    I assume you have read up on other court cases? Pofa isn!!!8217;t the magic bullet you seem to think it is.
    • muleskinner
    • By muleskinner 4th Jan 18, 1:43 PM
    • 109 Posts
    • 104 Thanks
    muleskinner
    I'm currently facing a court appearance against PPM Ltd and I have to say that, despite being terribly disorganised, inconsistent, and blatantly ignoring the IPC code of practice they don't seem to back down!

    Can't find much info as to how they actually perform in court.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 4th Jan 18, 2:09 PM
    • 2,714 Posts
    • 3,365 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Because it won!!!8217;t be them in court. It!!!8217;ll be glad rags hired goons.
    • Dark Clothes Man
    • By Dark Clothes Man 4th Jan 18, 2:20 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Dark Clothes Man
    Pofa isnít the magic bullet you seem to think it is.
    Originally posted by nosferatu1001
    It is still better they breach it than remain within it. My ultimate reason for refusing to hand over payment is down to this being a parking facility of some nature with a clearly marked boundary and entrance - but no entrance sign, and no argument of impracticality on their part.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 4th Jan 18, 10:18 PM
    • 58,322 Posts
    • 71,854 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I'm currently facing a court appearance against PPM Ltd and I have to say that, despite being terribly disorganised, inconsistent, and blatantly ignoring the IPC code of practice they don't seem to back down!

    Can't find much info as to how they actually perform in court.
    Originally posted by muleskinner
    You can find lots of other PPM court threads if you search. All were won by posters here.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Dark Clothes Man
    • By Dark Clothes Man 4th Jan 18, 10:44 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Dark Clothes Man
    @Coupon.

    Thanks - but out of interest, what the posters here have won vs PPML - are we talking where they themselves have cancelled the charge? Where the IAS has opined against them? Where they lost in court? Or where they simply backed down the old way after exhausting their chain while the issue was moot?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 4th Jan 18, 11:37 PM
    • 58,322 Posts
    • 71,854 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Where posters here won in court. 99% win rate here when posters are fully coached.

    As an aside, please contact WHICH? magazine using the easy link from this thread to tell them briefly of your plight. The more people who contact WHICH, the more likely they are to take up this unregulated scam industry as their next cause:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5765579
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 05-01-2018 at 11:33 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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