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  • FIRST POST
    • Capt Mainwaring
    • By Capt Mainwaring 1st Jan 18, 9:10 PM
    • 55Posts
    • 19Thanks
    Capt Mainwaring
    Help and guidance please
    • #1
    • 1st Jan 18, 9:10 PM
    Help and guidance please 1st Jan 18 at 9:10 PM
    Hi

    This is my first post. I've read through some of the stickies and I've got to admit, my head is spinning a little. I could really do with some help and guidance, as I'm not sure where to go from here. I feel sick as I type this and I just want the whole miserable saga to end quickly.

    Two PCNs have been issued by a well known car parking firm. An appeal was done via their website to address the first one (this was perhaps nave but was done without any prior internet research). Unsurprisingly, they were not interested in the rationale. When the appeal didn't work, I then began to consult the various forums dedicated to this subject. Most of the comments I read were unequivocal, in that any further correspondence from the company or any follow up letters from a Solicitor should be ignored. This advice has been duly followed.

    The latest letter is headed - Notice of Pending County Court Claim - I've been fairly bullish to this point, as I don't believe any money is owed to this company (their machines were out of order on both occasions). However, I'm now at a point of what do I do next? Do I continue to ignore the letters and potentially receive a court summons? Should I write them a 'cease and desist' letter, as per the various examples I've seen. Perhaps I should have written to the Retailer that I visited on both occasions, although given the amount of time that has elapsed, I'm not sure if they can help...

    Please can you help, as this is seriously getting me down. Thank you.
Page 5
    • Capt Mainwaring
    • By Capt Mainwaring 26th Feb 18, 10:56 PM
    • 55 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Capt Mainwaring
    Thanks Keith.
    • Capt Mainwaring
    • By Capt Mainwaring 4th Mar 18, 10:30 PM
    • 55 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Capt Mainwaring
    I've just completed the N180s for both claims. I thought I could email them back to the Court. Is this correct? I'm going to email it to them and to BW Legal and trust this is okay.

    I've looked for my local Court and the Gov website shows it to be Bradford. However, based on Lamilad's successes, I've opted for Skipton.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 4th Mar 18, 10:37 PM
    • 6,617 Posts
    • 5,801 Thanks
    KeithP
    Please re-read my last post on this thread. That should answer your question.
    .
    • Capt Mainwaring
    • By Capt Mainwaring 5th Mar 18, 10:47 AM
    • 55 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Capt Mainwaring
    Thanks Keith and apologies for not re-reading. Glad I've done the right thing anyway!
    • Capt Mainwaring
    • By Capt Mainwaring 1st Apr 18, 11:32 PM
    • 55 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Capt Mainwaring
    Hi

    I received a General Form of Judgment or Order through the post from the County Court at Skipton on Thursday 29/3. It confirms the following:

    District Judge Fay Wright sitting at (Court address) considered the papers in the case and

    ordered that:

    1) Unless by 4pm on the 5 April 2018 the Claimant files and serves amended particulars of claim addressing the matters required by CPR 1998 PD 16.7 and the legal basis on which is claims the defendant is liable to it the claim shall stand struck out.

    2) The defendant has permission if so advised to file with the court and serve on the claimant an amended defence within 14 days of service on her of the amended particulars of claim.

    3) Because this Order has been made without a hearing, the parties have the right to apply to have the order set aside, varied or stayed. A party making such an application must send or deliver the application the court (together with any appropriate fee) to arrive within seven days of the service of this order.

    Is it standard procedure to receive this form? Do I need to do anything? I wasn't planning to amend my defence.

    Please excuse my ignorance but what exactly does applying to have the order set aside, varied or stayed mean? Do I still have to go to court?

    As ever, thanks for your help and guidance.
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 1st Apr 18, 11:46 PM
    • 1,348 Posts
    • 2,695 Thanks
    Lamilad
    Is it standard procedure to receive this form? Do I need to do anything?
    Not standard procedure but not surprising for Skipton Court. DJ Wright has previously been very critical of Excel's PoC.

    You don't necessarily need to submit an amended defence. Wait to see if they comply with the order and what the new PoC states.
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 2nd Apr 18, 7:38 AM
    • 957 Posts
    • 1,838 Thanks
    Johnersh
    Nice. It just means the DJ shares the view of most forumites that a one line set of particulars of claim is woefully inadequate.

    Remember that if a new set of particulars are served, you should critically evaluate the defence and whether you wish to add to or amend it. The claimant may revise their arguments so greatly that this is prudent.

    This is helpful. Unlike others who only find out the real arguments later with the witness statements, you get to flush out the case early (which is as it should be).
    "The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading."
    DISCLAIMER: I post thoughts as & when they occur. I don't advise. You are your own person and decision-maker. I'm unlikely to respond to DMs seeking personal advice. It's ill-advised & you lose the benefit of a group "take" on events.
    • Capt Mainwaring
    • By Capt Mainwaring 4th Apr 18, 8:30 PM
    • 55 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Capt Mainwaring
    Hi

    BW Legal have written to me. In the alleged contravention where driver liability was admitted, they have provided me with a detailed response containing eight numbered paragraphs to justify why I owe them money. Their response includes a verbatim reproduction of the car park signage, confirming that ANPR is in place, that their client is a member of the IPC and that they have the right to follow this course of action. Nothing really unpredictable or out of the ordinary in their letter.

    In the other alleged contravention, where the driver's identity has not been confirmed, Excel have decided to make me an offer! In a fairly patronising tone, Excel believe that my defence is 'unlikely to succeed' but in order to avoid either party incurring further costs, they have instructed BW to propose an offer of settlement. How kind of them! IF they think I can't win, why are they prepared to knock the best part of 75 off my 'account balance'? Surely if they are that confident, they should be pushing the Court for an immediate hearing, so they can trounce me and screw the full amount out of me, or have a CCJ issued, if I refuse to pay.

    Their offer expires on 11th April. Of course, I'm not going to take them up on it.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 4th Apr 18, 8:33 PM
    • 56,149 Posts
    • 69,807 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Their response includes a verbatim reproduction of the car park signage,
    A stock picture of what they say a sign might have looked like? Typical trash.

    In the other alleged contravention, where the driver's identity has not been confirmed, Excel have decided to make me an offer! In a fairly patronising tone, Excel believe that my defence is 'unlikely to succeed' but in order to avoid either party incurring further costs, they have instructed BW to propose an offer of settlement. How kind of them! IF they think I can't win, why are they prepared to knock the best part of 75 off my 'account balance'?
    LOL!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 4th Apr 18, 8:39 PM
    • 17,279 Posts
    • 27,225 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Cue discontinuation?
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 4th Apr 18, 8:51 PM
    • 957 Posts
    • 1,838 Thanks
    Johnersh
    BW Legal have written to me. In the alleged contravention where driver liability was admitted, they have provided me with a detailed response containing eight numbered paragraphs to justify why I owe them money. Their response includes a verbatim reproduction of the car park signage, confirming that ANPR is in place, that their client is a member of the IPC and that they have the right to follow this course of action. Nothing really unpredictable or out of the ordinary in their letter.

    In the other alleged contravention, where the driver's identity has not been confirmed, Excel have decided to make me an offer!
    Not sure which claim is which in relation to where you're at in the proceedings. Unless I'm missing something (stranger things have happened, given this is a forum not a complete set of documents). You've not mentioned a new set of Particulars coming in. One might ask why they are "willy waving" and not complying with the extant court order?

    Unless by 4pm on the 5 April 2018 the Claimant files and serves amended particulars of claim addressing the matters required by CPR 1998 PD 16.7 and the legal basis on which is claims the defendant is liable to it the claim shall stand struck out.
    I know what i'd be focussing on if I were them. There won't be an 11 April unless you get a new set of proceedings tomorrow afternoon....
    Last edited by Johnersh; 04-04-2018 at 8:59 PM.
    "The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading."
    DISCLAIMER: I post thoughts as & when they occur. I don't advise. You are your own person and decision-maker. I'm unlikely to respond to DMs seeking personal advice. It's ill-advised & you lose the benefit of a group "take" on events.
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 5th Apr 18, 2:01 PM
    • 957 Posts
    • 1,838 Thanks
    Johnersh
    Two hours to go. Note the wording files AND serves (my emphasis) you need to have a copy by 4pm too.

    This is an unless order. The strike out is automatic unless complied with. No further order required.
    "The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading."
    DISCLAIMER: I post thoughts as & when they occur. I don't advise. You are your own person and decision-maker. I'm unlikely to respond to DMs seeking personal advice. It's ill-advised & you lose the benefit of a group "take" on events.
    • Capt Mainwaring
    • By Capt Mainwaring 5th Apr 18, 6:50 PM
    • 55 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Capt Mainwaring
    Hi

    I've not received any letters or emails from BW today. Unless the letter they sent me the other day is their amended PoC, they haven't served me with anything.

    I refuse to count my chickens at this stage though. Don't get me wrong, I hope this nightmare is finally at an end but I'm not celebrating just yet.
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 5th Apr 18, 7:03 PM
    • 1,348 Posts
    • 2,695 Thanks
    Lamilad
    You're in a very similar situation to Logblahar who's thread is just a little further down the list from yours.

    He received lengthy new PoC's and attached evidence the other day. Doesn't sound like you've got anything like that. So I'd suggest a call to the court first thing tomorrow to confirm the case has been struck.

    I would also email the judge directly with the same question as it's unlikely the clerk will actually be able to tell you much.

    skipton.cty.cm@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk
    • Capt Mainwaring
    • By Capt Mainwaring 6th Apr 18, 7:18 AM
    • 55 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Capt Mainwaring
    Thanks Lamilad

    I've just sent an email to the address you have confirmed to request that the Court strikes out the claims against me,
    • Lamilad
    • By Lamilad 6th Apr 18, 7:30 AM
    • 1,348 Posts
    • 2,695 Thanks
    Lamilad
    I would still make the phone call on the chance that they might be get the judge to deal with this today.
    • Capt Mainwaring
    • By Capt Mainwaring 6th Apr 18, 10:03 AM
    • 55 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Capt Mainwaring
    Hi Lamilad


    I've just spoken with the Court and they have received the amended PoC. I can only conclude that the letter they sent to me, is what they have filed with the Court, as I haven't received anything else from BW.


    I was told that I will shortly receive a General Form of Judgment or Order for the other alleged contravention and BW have until 18/4 to respond to that.
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 6th Apr 18, 10:10 AM
    • 957 Posts
    • 1,838 Thanks
    Johnersh
    Ok. Look at the defence and see if you need to amend/update to take account of the new argument.

    You could email the PPC to check that the letter is their defence. Normally it should be bl**Dy obvious.
    "The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading."
    DISCLAIMER: I post thoughts as & when they occur. I don't advise. You are your own person and decision-maker. I'm unlikely to respond to DMs seeking personal advice. It's ill-advised & you lose the benefit of a group "take" on events.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 6th Apr 18, 6:38 PM
    • 56,149 Posts
    • 69,807 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Even though one case is where the driver is known, and one is not, if these are both about the same contravention, car park, signage and defendant, you could write to DJ Wright and point out that the two separate claims have been filed for extremely similar circumstances (Claim No: xxxxxxx and Claim No: xxxxxxx). You could say that the defendant requests the cases are combined under Civil Procedure Rules 3.1(2)(g) and 3.1(2)(h) so that if there is to be a hearing, there be only one, to deal with both claims.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Capt Mainwaring
    • By Capt Mainwaring 10th Apr 18, 10:40 PM
    • 55 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    Capt Mainwaring
    Hi Johnersh

    I've read through the letter I've received from BW Legal and the only point which concerns me is regarding the number of ticket machines in operation. BW refer to a parking machine log, which shows no ticket being purchased in respect of the vehicle. In response to my assertion that the machine was out of order on the site, they advise that there were two other machines in operation on the contravention date, which could have been utilised.

    I know for a fact that two machines were not working. They were still not working when I returned weeks later. I have photographic proof to back this up. However, they will still clam that they were working! Where do I go from here?
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