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  • FIRST POST
    • planteria
    • By planteria 23rd Dec 17, 6:12 PM
    • 5,000Posts
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    planteria
    choosing a CC Exchange
    • #1
    • 23rd Dec 17, 6:12 PM
    choosing a CC Exchange 23rd Dec 17 at 6:12 PM
    working on something with some people i work with, and looking at the various Cryptocurrency exchanges.

    have a LNS Hardware Wallet, and Sterling bank accounts, debit card and credit cards.. no Euro or Dollar accounts, though these could be set up if necessary.

    Coinbase is getting a lot of attention, but i understand that they're not great value.. and i'm not bothered about using an app. access via a bog standard macbook on a website is fine.

    Kraken and Gemini seem slick, but are not offering transactions in Sterling, so i assume there is an exchange rate as well as purchase trading fees.

    Bitbargain seems a decent option, but they only allow access to Bitcoin and Litecoin, it seems.

    what Exchanges do people here recommend?
Page 2
    • ivormonee
    • By ivormonee 6th Jan 18, 7:26 PM
    • 167 Posts
    • 102 Thanks
    ivormonee
    Well I know nothing about cryptocurrencies but decided I want to buy some/ a bit of it/ them. So I've spent quite a lot of time reading the threads on here and researching other sources of info. online today but am not really any the wiser. I then searched for sites to buy but stumbled as I couldn't understand the process.

    Some of the problems I seemed to encounter were: complexity, as there seemed to be far too many ways of buying (something about needing a wallet but then also needing a broker and/ or exchange and/ or a P2P platform for the transaction) - it's probably not that difficult but it just didn't make sense to me; costs/ fees/ charges/ spreads - I had a "quote" to buy 1,000 worth of bitcoin(s) but there was a charge, a mining fee and a transaction fee (totalling around 200 so I'd only get around 800 of coins for my 1,000); one platform wasn't accepting orders; etc.

    Basically a few hours of research and trying to actually buy some cryptocurrency proved futile. I must have missed/ misunderstood parts of the process. Have others had a similar experience? And if so, how was this overcome (or not)?
    Last edited by ivormonee; 06-01-2018 at 7:28 PM.
    • downhillfast
    • By downhillfast 6th Jan 18, 8:47 PM
    • 929 Posts
    • 643 Thanks
    downhillfast
    Well I know nothing about cryptocurrencies but decided I want to buy some/ a bit of it/ them. So I've spent quite a lot of time reading the threads on here and researching other sources of info. online today but am not really any the wiser. I then searched for sites to buy but stumbled as I couldn't understand the process.

    Some of the problems I seemed to encounter were: complexity, as there seemed to be far too many ways of buying (something about needing a wallet but then also needing a broker and/ or exchange and/ or a P2P platform for the transaction) - it's probably not that difficult but it just didn't make sense to me; costs/ fees/ charges/ spreads - I had a "quote" to buy 1,000 worth of bitcoin(s) but there was a charge, a mining fee and a transaction fee (totalling around 200 so I'd only get around 800 of coins for my 1,000); one platform wasn't accepting orders; etc.

    Basically a few hours of research and trying to actually buy some cryptocurrency proved futile. I must have missed/ misunderstood parts of the process. Have others had a similar experience? And if so, how was this overcome (or not)?
    Originally posted by ivormonee
    It is definitely complicated - which unless this changes it will severely limit uptake by general public.

    This might not be the BEST way... but it is a pretty straightforward way with fees reduced as much as possible - there are quicker ways ie using credit card, but they come with hefty fees.

    Download the Revolut app (on your phone) and setup an account.
    Once account is open go and find the EUR account and ACTIVATE it. During verification you need to upload funds from your existing bank account - just deposit 10 to start with. Once you've got 10 and the EUR account activated you can exchange the 10 for Euros - all done in the app, fairly easy to work out.

    Open a Coinbase account. Once the account is open you need to link a bank account - REVOLUT EURO ACCOUNT is going to be your bank account! During the linking process you have to do a SEPA transfer in EUROS to Coinbase. Use the Revolut IBAN and BIC - all available in the App. You will need to set up Coinbase as a recipient on Revolut - again the process is very simple within the app and Coinbase give you their details within the process so you don't have to hunt them down.

    Once you get to the end of the bank account linking process you will have a SEPA payment on its way to Coinbase - this takes a couple of days so you now have to be patient!

    Once your account is linked you will be able to repeat the 'Normal bank account' >> Revolut >> Coinbase with the funds you want to buy your crypto currency with - again it will take a couple of days.

    Once your funds have arrived at Coinbase you can either buy your currency there and pay 1.49% fee...

    OR...

    login to a website called GDAX - it is the sister site of Coinbase and uses the same login credentials.
    In the deposit withdrawals section you need to transfer your cash from the Coinbase Wallet to the GDAX trading wallet - this is instant and free.

    Once cash is in GDAX you can use it to buy Bitcoin using a LIMIT order - google this for more information. LIMIT orders have no fees.

    From there you can either transfer it to other exchanges to buy other curriencies 'Alt Coins' or transfer it to a wallet to store it.

    In short you have a few options with wallets - keep it on the exchange wallet and hope they don't go bust or get hacked. Move it to another online wallet - and hope it doesn't get hacked... move in onto a hardware wallet (a bit like a USB stick) - and hope you don't lose it or break it... move it onto a paper wallet (literally a piece of paper with a QR code on it and a keycode) and hope it doesn't get stolen, eaten by the dog, burned, water damaged etc. Whichever wallet you choose make sure you keep it safe as if you lose access to it it is pretty much gone forever...
    Last edited by downhillfast; 06-01-2018 at 9:06 PM.
    • ivormonee
    • By ivormonee 6th Jan 18, 9:34 PM
    • 167 Posts
    • 102 Thanks
    ivormonee
    It is definitely complicated [...] In short you have a few options...
    Originally posted by downhillfast
    Many thanks for your reply. Very informative. It does seem like a very long, drawn out process to buy/ sell/ use cryptocurrencies though. It reminds me of Linux, a superior, more stable software than Microsoft yet, due to its complexities, has never taken off into the public mainstream, forcing a situation where Microsoft remains the dominant force.

    If cryptocurrencies don't simplify/ streamline, I fear they may remain a niche product for retail investors/ consumers in the same way that Linux has for home computer users.

    I will try and follow something like what you've described and see how I get on. Will I have access to a wide range of cryptocurrencies (I don't want to be limited to Bitcoin as I think it might be in bubble territory at the moment, although who knows!)?
    • downhillfast
    • By downhillfast 6th Jan 18, 9:50 PM
    • 929 Posts
    • 643 Thanks
    downhillfast
    Many thanks for your reply. Very informative. It does seem like a very long, drawn out process to buy/ sell/ use cryptocurrencies though. It reminds me of Linux, a superior, more stable software than Microsoft yet, due to its complexities, has never taken off into the public mainstream, forcing a situation where Microsoft remains the dominant force.

    If cryptocurrencies don't simplify/ streamline, I fear they may remain a niche product for retail investors/ consumers in the same way that Linux has for home computer users.

    I will try and follow something like what you've described and see how I get on. Will I have access to a wide range of cryptocurrencies (I don't want to be limited to Bitcoin as I think it might be in bubble territory at the moment, although who knows!)?
    Originally posted by ivormonee

    Once you own some BTC or whatever other currency you buy from Coinbase/GDAX (limited choice) you can then transfer it to whichever exchange you want to buy a whole load of alt coins - Binance seems to be the go to place at the moment as they have a huge number of different coins.
    • YellowStarling
    • By YellowStarling 7th Jan 18, 12:28 AM
    • 33 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    YellowStarling
    During the linking process you have to do a SEPA transfer in EUROS to Coinbase. Use the Revolut IBAN and BIC - all available in the App. You will need to set up Coinbase as a recipient on Revolut - again the process is very simple within the app and Coinbase give you their details within the process so you don't have to hunt them down.

    Once you get to the end of the bank account linking process you will have a SEPA payment on its way to Coinbase - this takes a couple of days so you now have to be patient!
    Originally posted by downhillfast
    The process described in the post the above quote is taken from is exactly how I do it. One important thing missing from the guide though is you will need to grab the "Wallet Address" for the EUR wallet on Coinbase before making the transfer from Revolut. This is a reference that you copy and paste as your payment reference on Revolut. Luckily, Revolut won't let you make the payment without a reference, but it's important you get the reference right otherwise your transfer of Euros from Revolut will not hit your Coinbase account and cannot be recalled. The reference is essentially your Coinbase account number.

    And as for the altcoins, I find Binance to be useful. You can trade Ethereum (ETH), Litecoin (LTC) and Bitcoin (BTC) for most alts on there, they have a good selection, and they have their own coin called BNB, but do make sure to check the exchange part first as they do not all buy the same altcoins. For instance, you currently can't buy TRON (TRX) with BNB so you have to have Ether (ETH) instead. Therefore, to avoid having small remnants of coins in Binance or similar, try to limit the number of exchanges you do to get the coin you want by working out the 'quickest' route to it, if that makes sense.

    Use Limit trades as advised above; this essentially is naming a price you're willing to sell or buy at and 'queuing' it into the market, a bit like laying a bet on Betfair or something similar (if you're UK-based), rather than buying at the market price. The market moves quickly so you often do not have to wait long for your price to be accepted, but the fees are lower (and the fees are halved if you do use BNB on Binance). If the market starts to drastically move in the wrong direction to the price you've set, you can cancel your trade instruction and reset it.

    I'd advise to do some further reading; there are also plenty of handy videos out there describing methods such as the above. As the market matures, I'm certain the exchanges will evolve to make things simpler (market buys may well become normal again, like they are with fiat currencies, as the markets stabilise and therefore the backlogs reduce, and with them the transaction fees - paradoxically, the fees are growing and starting to put others off partly as a result of the growing demand!). Alternatively, have a play but with small amounts whilst you get used to the processes and workarounds - most exchanges let you buy fractions of coins.
    Don't hope. Decide.
    • popuppirate75
    • By popuppirate75 7th Jan 18, 9:18 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    popuppirate75
    Binance works great for me, I bailed on Coinbase when I read about a worrying number of complications and complaints on Reddit. At least Binance seems to handle the busy periods well. But I do need to transfer my funds to paper wallet rather than leave them on (this or any) exchange!
    • ivormonee
    • By ivormonee 7th Jan 18, 9:50 PM
    • 167 Posts
    • 102 Thanks
    ivormonee
    I do need to transfer my funds to paper wallet
    Originally posted by popuppirate75
    What does this mean?
    • YellowStarling
    • By YellowStarling 8th Jan 18, 10:20 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    YellowStarling
    "Cold storage" on an electronic or paper wallet describes the storing of your coins 'offline' outside of the exchanges that you buy them on, to prevent loss through the exchange defaulting, being hacked or simply losing them. A paper wallet is literally your codes to your coins, like a QR code, on a piece of paper; alternative cold storage can be stored on an adapted USB for want of a better term, such as the Ledger Nano S. It supports various coins via apps, and can be 'sent' to from your exchange in a similar way to you sending the coins between exchanges (like Coinbase to Binance outlined above), then it is locked with a combination of a pin and 24 key words known only to you.
    Don't hope. Decide.
    • DennisTenus
    • By DennisTenus 9th Jan 18, 12:23 AM
    • 158 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    DennisTenus
    "Cold storage" on an electronic or paper wallet describes the storing of your coins 'offline' outside of the exchanges that you buy them on, to prevent loss through the exchange defaulting, being hacked or simply losing them. A paper wallet is literally your codes to your coins, like a QR code, on a piece of paper; alternative cold storage can be stored on an adapted USB for want of a better term, such as the Ledger Nano S. It supports various coins via apps, and can be 'sent' to from your exchange in a similar way to you sending the coins between exchanges (like Coinbase to Binance outlined above), then it is locked with a combination of a pin and 24 key words known only to you.
    Originally posted by YellowStarling
    I'd been wondering about this. So if someone stole a paper wallet, would they have the coins? or would they still need a PIN and 24 key words? I assume to transfer out of a paper wallet you have to import it into an online exchange somehow?
    • YellowStarling
    • By YellowStarling 9th Jan 18, 9:35 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    YellowStarling
    Correct, it's recommended you keep each of your 'components' (PINs, pass phrases, etc.) separate and secure. For hardware wallets , you can use key words to prove your ownership (from the records in the blockchain) and 'restore' your coins. Just don't lose the key words; lock them away in your safe! It's also recommended that you purchase your hardware from reputable sources, such as well-known retailers or the manufacturer directly, rather than private sellers or from sellers on auction sites, etc. as they may have tampered with the devices.


    I imagine it is similar with paper (QR code) storage, though I haven't personally used these services. And yes, to use them once stored 'cold' you can use the apps to send the coins from your storage to online wallets and exchanges.
    Don't hope. Decide.
    • Cotta
    • By Cotta 10th Jan 18, 8:06 AM
    • 2,722 Posts
    • 1,114 Thanks
    Cotta
    Binance works great for me, I bailed on Coinbase when I read about a worrying number of complications and complaints on Reddit. At least Binance seems to handle the busy periods well. But I do need to transfer my funds to paper wallet rather than leave them on (this or any) exchange!
    Originally posted by popuppirate75
    Has Binance not ended applications to new members.
    • ivormonee
    • By ivormonee 12th Jan 18, 3:16 PM
    • 167 Posts
    • 102 Thanks
    ivormonee
    I tried to follow the steps above (ie. open a Coinbase account, then a GDAX account, then transfer from bank to Coinbase, then to GDAX, then buy BTC in GDAX, transfer to another exchange, then buy altcoin(s) of choice, then transfer to wallet of choice).

    But I've stumbled. GDAX don't seem to want to accept my ID once account is opened. And without GDAX the above chain of events breaks down. Any suggestions on sorting out the GDAX ID issue (ie. did anyone else have a similar experience and, if so, how was the problem resolved?)
    • YellowStarling
    • By YellowStarling 12th Jan 18, 5:41 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    YellowStarling
    Have seen on another thread on here that Coinbase (GDAX) are now requesting two forms of ID


    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5770300


    I can't be sure but I think I got straight into GDAX through my Coinbase which was verified with just the one. If right, it suggests that verification protocols have changed slightly in the last week or so at GDAX/Coinbase, so there could be a backlog or potentially being more cautious. This industry isn't renowned yet for its customer support services, but maybe you could try raising a ticket if you haven't already.


    Another option I see UK-based users opting for is LocalBitcoins but I have no personal experience of using this.
    Don't hope. Decide.
    • YellowStarling
    • By YellowStarling 12th Jan 18, 5:43 PM
    • 33 Posts
    • 14 Thanks
    YellowStarling
    Ah I've just seen you reply to that thread...
    Don't hope. Decide.
    • ivormonee
    • By ivormonee 12th Jan 18, 10:53 PM
    • 167 Posts
    • 102 Thanks
    ivormonee
    Well I've submitted a ticket to GDAX and am waiting for a reply. In the meantime I went to open an account on BitFinex but it says "New accounts will not be able to trade or perform any platform function until they reach a minimum account equity of 10,000 USD". That seems rather steep! Is this normal? Or is the $10k requirement peculiar to BitFinex? If other exchanges have a minimum it would be useful to know what they are. I just want to buy some (small amounts of) cryptocurrencies to dip the old toe in the water so to speak. $10k was not the level I had in mind!
    • planteria
    • By planteria 13th Jan 18, 2:56 PM
    • 5,000 Posts
    • 1,110 Thanks
    planteria
    some good responses here, it's a useful thread.

    no doubt that the exchanges have been struggling with the increased volumes, and the process is messy.. but i suppose that provides potential upside when the process becomes easier/cheaper.
    • ivormonee
    • By ivormonee 13th Jan 18, 7:55 PM
    • 167 Posts
    • 102 Thanks
    ivormonee
    Does anyone know if there are any minimum levels of investment requirements on these cryptocurrency exchanges? And how do the fees work - are there any minimums?

    So if I wanted to just invest a very small amount to start off with, would I be able to do that?
    • planteria
    • By planteria 14th Jan 18, 10:35 AM
    • 5,000 Posts
    • 1,110 Thanks
    planteria
    my understanding is that there are no minimums, but charges will further eat into smaller transactions.
    • sstjc
    • By sstjc 15th Jan 18, 7:36 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    sstjc
    I've just started and signed up with coinbase. I initially did a bank transfer into coinbase which went ok but took 2 days. Coinbase seems a simple way to dip a toe in the crypto-water...
    I've detailed what i've done on my blog https://ineptinvestor.blogspot.co.uk/
    I'm also interested in Ripple and a few other CCs but haven't decided where to go for that because they are not on coinbase. I looked a kraken but i'm not convinced just yet !
    • planteria
    • By planteria 18th Jan 18, 12:54 AM
    • 5,000 Posts
    • 1,110 Thanks
    planteria
    did you move further? Ripple dropped significantly.. so it could drop further, or it could be a buying opportunity
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