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  • FIRST POST
    • treecol
    • By treecol 21st Dec 17, 11:37 AM
    • 266Posts
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    treecol
    Consumer rights on second hand goods
    • #1
    • 21st Dec 17, 11:37 AM
    Consumer rights on second hand goods 21st Dec 17 at 11:37 AM
    I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, but here goes! A friend of our has a Honda Goldwing which has a fault with the indicator switch. The lovely people at Honda no longer manufacture this part (2002 bike). A Honda dealer supplied said friend with the last available new one - but it was off an older model at the cost of 500. They agreed if it didn't fit he could have a refund - but that he had to hurry & make his mind up to have it as they had another customer who wanted it. They sent it to us as DH was fitting it for his friend.
    We send it back as the electrical connections were incompatible. Dealer didn't provide the refund as he said he had a used one off the same year bike which friend could have at 400 & he'd refund the difference if it fitted. DH connected it & indicators still didn't work.So the friend asked for a refund & they refused saying as it's second hand, no refund. The other customer has disappeared & no longer wants it (what a surprise). They say our friend also can't have a refund as they have costs involved in removing it from the bike it was attached to - something they did not specify when he agreed to try the part.
    All this was arranged over the phone as the dealer is in another part of the country to both of us. So is he entitled to a refund, partial refund? Thank you if you can assist as it's a considerable amount of money to lose.
Page 1
    • marlot
    • By marlot 21st Dec 17, 11:42 AM
    • 3,497 Posts
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    marlot
    • #2
    • 21st Dec 17, 11:42 AM
    • #2
    • 21st Dec 17, 11:42 AM
    How did he pay?

    (if you still need the switch, try David Silver https://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/ )
    • arcon5
    • By arcon5 21st Dec 17, 11:46 AM
    • 13,577 Posts
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    arcon5
    • #3
    • 21st Dec 17, 11:46 AM
    • #3
    • 21st Dec 17, 11:46 AM
    Was it an online purchase?
    If not I can't see you having any rights as it fitted . The issue is he's misdiagnosed the fault with the indicator
    • bobbymotors
    • By bobbymotors 21st Dec 17, 1:08 PM
    • 639 Posts
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    bobbymotors
    • #4
    • 21st Dec 17, 1:08 PM
    • #4
    • 21st Dec 17, 1:08 PM
    Was it an online purchase?
    If not I can't see you having any rights as it fitted . The issue is he's misdiagnosed the fault with the indicator
    Originally posted by arcon5
    Yep, sounds like a mis diagnosed fault to be honest.
    • Joe Horner
    • By Joe Horner 21st Dec 17, 1:18 PM
    • 4,378 Posts
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    Joe Horner
    • #5
    • 21st Dec 17, 1:18 PM
    • #5
    • 21st Dec 17, 1:18 PM
    Unfortunately (because it's open to abuse) he should be entitled to a refund under the Consumer Contracts Regulations as a distance sale - this applies to phone sales just as much as to internet.

    However, to take advantage, he MUST have requested the refund within 14 days of receipt, and have returned the switch within a further 14 days.

    https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-contracts-regulations

    Not sure how it works when the seller tries to refuse a refund and takes you "out of time" but suspect any rulings would be in your favour.
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 21st Dec 17, 2:13 PM
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    agrinnall
    • #6
    • 21st Dec 17, 2:13 PM
    • #6
    • 21st Dec 17, 2:13 PM
    If he paid with a card then he can make either a Section 75 (credit card) or Chargeback (both debit and credit card) claim from the card issuer.
    • Warwick Hunt
    • By Warwick Hunt 21st Dec 17, 4:07 PM
    • 1,153 Posts
    • 551 Thanks
    Warwick Hunt
    • #7
    • 21st Dec 17, 4:07 PM
    • #7
    • 21st Dec 17, 4:07 PM
    Was it an online purchase?
    If not I can't see you having any rights as it fitted . The issue is he's misdiagnosed the fault with the indicator
    Originally posted by arcon5
    Don't you know anything about distance selling?
    • treecol
    • By treecol 21st Dec 17, 9:23 PM
    • 266 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    treecol
    • #8
    • 21st Dec 17, 9:23 PM
    • #8
    • 21st Dec 17, 9:23 PM
    Thank you all so far. I called trading standards who say long distance selling has a 14 day cooling off period. Also if the switch is not fit for purpose a refund is due regardless of it being a second-hand part.
    I called the dealer & explained & he said there is no chance of a refund because it's a second-hand electrical part, & that as we opened the packaging (all be it a used plastic bag stapled shut) & connected the part to the bike to try (by simply plugging in the electrical connectors) there is no entitlement to a refund. I did point him to the consumer rights page TS had sent me which didn't detail any of his specifications. He says sending out the part & removing it from the bike has involved a lot of costs, but I said that doesn't mean that our friend has no rights.
    So I've told him we'll put it in writing using a template letter from TS & it's up to the dealer to then respond. He says it's unreasonable to behave like this, but I don't think so, 500 for a part that cannot be returned is a lot of money.
    I will post updates for reference for people in the future.
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 22nd Dec 17, 8:39 AM
    • 20,340 Posts
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    agrinnall
    • #9
    • 22nd Dec 17, 8:39 AM
    • #9
    • 22nd Dec 17, 8:39 AM
    I refer you back to post #6 for a way forward.
    • treecol
    • By treecol 22nd Dec 17, 9:11 AM
    • 266 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    treecol
    I refer you back to post #6 for a way forward.
    Originally posted by agrinnall
    Checked it out & it doesn't apply. He paid by debit card & here is what I can find about chargeback, which doesn't apply to the circumstances of this purchase.

    Chargeback can be used in cases of goods not arriving at all, goods that are damaged, goods that are different from the description, or where the merchant has ceased trading...from Which website.
    • treecol
    • By treecol 9th Jan 18, 2:25 PM
    • 266 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    treecol
    Just to update those who may be curious - the dealer has refunded 140 of the original 500 saying the rest is the charges to take the switch off the second-hand bike. So they have the switch back too.
    Trading standards have told us to write to them informing them we intend to take the matter further. The fact that the package is opened, the item is a second-hand electrical item & connected to the bike, they say is all immaterial. We also have to inform them trading standards are investigating the matter as a "criminal referral".
    We have to give them a set time to respond & the onus is on them to prove they had a contract with our friend to charge him to remove the switch - something they did not even tell him about.
    So I'm just compiling a letter to send via recorded delivery to them & will post again when we get a response. Trading standards say a full refund of the 500 is due.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 9th Jan 18, 3:27 PM
    • 17,602 Posts
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    AdrianC
    Is the part actually faulty...?

    He bought a non-identical part in the hope it'd solve his problem. It didn't. We don't know whether that's because it's the wrong part (his fault) or the problem lies elsewhere (his fault) or the part was faulty (the supplier's fault).

    If the part has been damaged by being used in the wrong application (entirely possible), then no refund would be due.

    If a refund is due, then their costs of sale (removal from the donor bike) are their problem, not his.
    • treecol
    • By treecol 9th Jan 18, 6:01 PM
    • 266 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    treecol
    The dealer supplied the second-hand part saying it "should" fit as it was from a bike of the same year. It plugged in but did not fix the issue with his switch ie the indicators still do not work. We do not know if this second-hand part was faulty or not, we don't have any means of testing the electrics in it & the dealer knew this. The part has not been damaged nor could it have been when it was tried. The electrical connections were identical & simply plugged in, nothing was fitted to the bike.
    Trading standards are entirely happy that with the details we've provided, the company is liable to issue a full refund.
    • treecol
    • By treecol 3rd Mar 18, 1:15 PM
    • 266 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    treecol
    Though I'd post an update as this may be helpful for someone in a similar position. The trader has now provided a full refund as they could not prove that a contract had been entered into with our friend to remove the second-hand part from the motorcycle & supply it to him. they accepted liability when we put it in writing pointing out the facts as per trading standards advice. I suspect they have also now been investigated by TS so that may have played a part.
    So folks, do check your rights & don't be fobbed off by traders telling you that you don't have any - TS say that was the criminal part. Distance selling affords more rights & second-hand goods don't affect your rights either. It is also only CD's DVD's & computer games/software that must be returned unopened. Other goods can be opened to be examined.
    We have a local shop saying they don't provide refunds on curtains if the packaging is opened, again TS say not so - refunds must be given. So do check!
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