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  • FIRST POST
    • dont_use_vistaprint
    • By dont_use_vistaprint 20th Dec 17, 1:19 PM
    • 49Posts
    • 18Thanks
    dont_use_vistaprint
    London Capital
    • #1
    • 20th Dec 17, 1:19 PM
    London Capital 20th Dec 17 at 1:19 PM
    Whats peoples thoughts on this, not linked to markets & 'guaranteed' 8% they say the capital is secured as follows:

    As an investor you would have a charge over the assets by way of a legal vehicle known as a debenture. This means that all investors will have a charge over the secured assets which include the cash reserves in London Capital & Finance Plc and the security taken from borrowing companies.

    I was wondering what a typical business loan interest rate is for 100K , I would think well below 8% - does this suggest they are lending to higher risk companies like start-ups ? But they they say the companies have assets equal to the loan value... but then why would they borrow at > 8%
Page 1
    • ColdIron
    • By ColdIron 20th Dec 17, 1:22 PM
    • 4,158 Posts
    • 5,245 Thanks
    ColdIron
    • #2
    • 20th Dec 17, 1:22 PM
    • #2
    • 20th Dec 17, 1:22 PM
    London Capital and Finance comes up regularly. Use the search funcion or read their disclaimer on their web site (my emphasis)

    https://www.londoncapitalandfinance.co.uk/disclaimer

    LC&F is authorised and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority, FRN 722603. It should be noted that the bonds offered by LC&F are repaid via loans made to companies and therefore your capital is at risk. Interest payments are not guaranteed if the borrower defaults

    Investing in the Bonds carries significant risk and you may lose part or all of your investment

    The protections afforded by the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 including recourse to the Financial Ombudsman Service and compensation entitlements under the Financial Services Compensation Scheme do not apply to the bonds offered
    • Zoea
    • By Zoea 20th Dec 17, 1:24 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Zoea
    • #3
    • 20th Dec 17, 1:24 PM
    • #3
    • 20th Dec 17, 1:24 PM
    There's another company that I know that does something similar (I won't name them since they are overseas and not very well established / reputationed yet but you can always PM me) yes they lend to medium high risk organisations but the loans are all secured and they are able to offer 12-14%. They provide a "guarantee" but it isn't any kind of legal vehicle it's just text on a website as far as I can tell.

    Plenty of people around the world are borrowing for business at well over 8%. Why ? - I have no idea must be a markets thing. This is interesting thanks for posting let us know if you go through with an investment and how it goes please.

    I'm very new at this and not experienced so I'll just throw that in there. Best to be careful out here.
    • dont_use_vistaprint
    • By dont_use_vistaprint 20th Dec 17, 1:40 PM
    • 49 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    dont_use_vistaprint
    • #4
    • 20th Dec 17, 1:40 PM
    • #4
    • 20th Dec 17, 1:40 PM
    Thanks Guys. Quick search at the threads here suggest people maybe confuse them with savings/ISA's. I like the idea of using capital to support business loans, especially if the businesses have assets, but guess Id like to know more about the types of businesses and why they borrow this way, certainly wouldn't want to invest in a b2b payday loan type thing...
    Last edited by dont_use_vistaprint; 20-12-2017 at 1:42 PM.
    • jimjames
    • By jimjames 20th Dec 17, 5:23 PM
    • 12,588 Posts
    • 11,238 Thanks
    jimjames
    • #5
    • 20th Dec 17, 5:23 PM
    • #5
    • 20th Dec 17, 5:23 PM
    If you're prepared to risk all your capital why would you not invest in a standard S&S ISA or have you used your allowance up?
    Remember the saying: if it looks too good to be true it almost certainly is.
    • dont_use_vistaprint
    • By dont_use_vistaprint 21st Dec 17, 8:54 AM
    • 49 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    dont_use_vistaprint
    • #6
    • 21st Dec 17, 8:54 AM
    • #6
    • 21st Dec 17, 8:54 AM
    Because S&S are linked to markets, and markets a little flat last few months. It looks like P2P but higher interest and less info on the companies borrowing. Maybe this area will change a bit when IFISA is rolled out properly.

    Update - Just spoken to them, all UK established companies, no startups, corporate funding to established businesses, minimum loan value 0.5m
    Last edited by dont_use_vistaprint; 21-12-2017 at 10:42 AM.
    • aberlyfid_2000
    • By aberlyfid_2000 24th Dec 17, 3:40 PM
    • 52 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    aberlyfid_2000
    • #7
    • 24th Dec 17, 3:40 PM
    • #7
    • 24th Dec 17, 3:40 PM
    with a bit of work, it is possible to find loans to appropriate ventures for circa 8%, but this is the domain of banks and specialist investors, and would certainly require taking on high yield/speculative risk. The interest figure would indicate that the companies are currently "borderline" going concerns, and i would require that the loans are covered at least 120% by assets.
    • jimjames
    • By jimjames 24th Dec 17, 4:48 PM
    • 12,588 Posts
    • 11,238 Thanks
    jimjames
    • #8
    • 24th Dec 17, 4:48 PM
    • #8
    • 24th Dec 17, 4:48 PM
    Because S&S are linked to markets, and markets a little flat last few months.
    Originally posted by dont_use_vistaprint
    If you're looking at periods of a few months then yes a S&S ISA isn't for you but I thought the L&C was tied up for a fair period anyway? With a S&S ISA invested in mainstream funds then there is no chance of losing all your money, you could lose everything you invest with an unregulated investment like L&C
    Last edited by jimjames; 24-12-2017 at 4:51 PM.
    Remember the saying: if it looks too good to be true it almost certainly is.
    • dont_use_vistaprint
    • By dont_use_vistaprint 1st Mar 18, 7:45 PM
    • 49 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    dont_use_vistaprint
    • #9
    • 1st Mar 18, 7:45 PM
    • #9
    • 1st Mar 18, 7:45 PM
    If you're looking at periods of a few months then yes a S&S ISA isn't for you but I thought the L&C was tied up for a fair period anyway? With a S&S ISA invested in mainstream funds then there is no chance of losing all your money, you could lose everything you invest with an unregulated investment like L&C
    Originally posted by jimjames
    Thanks.

    I'm looking 2-3 years, p2p loans seems to be the right solution. I have a S&S ISA with Vanguard, its made 76p this year :-) Fingers crossed for tomorrow, my premium bonds might outperform my stocks.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 1st Mar 18, 8:41 PM
    • 92,649 Posts
    • 59,971 Thanks
    dunstonh
    Thanks.

    I'm looking 2-3 years, p2p loans seems to be the right solution. I have a S&S ISA with Vanguard, its made 76p this year :-) Fingers crossed for tomorrow, my premium bonds might outperform my stocks.
    Originally posted by dont_use_vistaprint
    Given your comment here and your other thread, you clearly have a lack of understanding of pretty much everything you are putting your money into. How about you learn about these things?
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • ValiantSon
    • By ValiantSon 1st Mar 18, 10:15 PM
    • 1,884 Posts
    • 1,748 Thanks
    ValiantSon
    There's another company that I know that does something similar (I won't name them since they are overseas and not very well established / reputationed yet but you can always PM me) yes they lend to medium high risk organisations but the loans are all secured and they are able to offer 12-14%. They provide a "guarantee" but it isn't any kind of legal vehicle it's just text on a website as far as I can tell.

    Plenty of people around the world are borrowing for business at well over 8%. Why ? - I have no idea must be a markets thing. This is interesting thanks for posting let us know if you go through with an investment and how it goes please.

    I'm very new at this and not experienced so I'll just throw that in there. Best to be careful out here.
    Originally posted by Zoea
    Everything in your post screams, "Get out now!". You admit to not really knowing much about what you are investing in; that the company you are investing in is not regulated by the FCA; the secured nature of the loans does not mean that they can recover all of your money if there is a default; and you acknowledge that their "guarantee" is worth nothing. Why are you even considering giving any of these people your money?

    I've said it before, please avoid the get rich schemes and the too good to be true: you won't and they are.
    • bail-in
    • By bail-in 5th Mar 18, 9:48 AM
    • 39 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    bail-in
    As an investor you would have a charge over the assets by way of a legal vehicle known as a debenture. This means that all investors will have a charge over the secured assets which include the cash reserves in London Capital & Finance Plc and the security taken from borrowing companies.
    Originally posted by dont_use_vistaprint
    Check accounts at Companies House re LC&F assets.

    The LC&F cash reserves are matched by their liabilities.

    Their less than 2 million property assets are mortgaged so no asset value their either for bondholders in case of liquidation of the company.

    And as for the millions in sme B2B lending secured assets, there is no commercial due diligence that LC&F will provide on request to prove that the commercial lending business actually exists.

    Have u asked how the only 2 employees and one CEO could do all the huge work involved in the secured commercial lending business? All the bond team are contracted employees from Surge Financial Ltd and know nothing about the commercial lending business of LC&F. Post here their answer! If you are lucky to get one.

    The answer given, incorrectly, by Surge and LC&F head office is data protection prevents disclosure, but the ICO confirms the DPA 1998 does not apply to B2B commercial lending, only to living individual personal data held by companies. However, such personal data is not being asked for in the request for evidence, sme names etc, of the commercial lending business. Therefore, commercial due diligence re the commercial lending borrowers should be made available on their websites for potential and existing qualifying investors so proof of business can be discerned.

    For an indepth review of the London Capital and Finance mini-bond visit
    https://anonymouslcafgmail.weebly.com/
    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 5th Mar 18, 10:07 AM
    • 7,835 Posts
    • 14,310 Thanks
    bowlhead99
    And as for the millions in sme B2B lending secured assets, there is no commercial due diligence that LC&F will provide on request to prove that the commercial lending business actually exists.
    Originally posted by bail-in
    They don't need to provide it if people are foolish enough to lend them money to support those [real or fictitious] operations without doing any due diligence.

    The answer given, incorrectly, by Surge and LC&F head office is data protection prevents disclosure, but the ICO confirms the DPA 1998 does not apply to B2B commercial lending, only to living individual personal data held by companies. However, such personal data is not being asked for in the request for evidence, sme names etc, of the commercial lending business.
    So it is not a data protection law as such, just civil law where they have contractually agreed with borrowers to preserve confidentiality as borrowers don't want their name, loan amounts and terms to get out into the public domain which could prejudice their own legitimate business interests. That is still a form of 'data protection' to legallly protect data, just not 'Data Protection Act / GDPR' stuff.

    Therefore, commercial due diligence re the commercial lending borrowers should be made available on their websites for potential and existing qualifying investors so proof of business can be discerned.
    You might think it should be but it doesn't need to be if people are willing to lend without it. According to your lengthy 'review' previously posted on this site, they have indeed raised funds. So, one could contend that as much information as necessary is being made available.

    Still, I wouldn't invest in it, just like I wouldn't visit your no doubt highly professional-looking website
    • steampowered
    • By steampowered 5th Mar 18, 10:26 AM
    • 2,500 Posts
    • 2,421 Thanks
    steampowered
    Because S&S are linked to markets, and markets a little flat last few months. It looks like P2P but higher interest and less info on the companies borrowing
    Originally posted by dont_use_vistaprint
    The average dividend yield of the FTSE is about 4%. So you would make a 4% return even if the markets did stay flat (unlikely).
    Last edited by steampowered; 05-03-2018 at 11:12 AM.
    • Reaper
    • By Reaper 5th Mar 18, 10:38 AM
    • 6,252 Posts
    • 4,502 Thanks
    Reaper
    For an indepth review of the London Capital and Finance mini-bond visit
    https://anonymouslcafgmail.weebly.com/
    Originally posted by bail-in
    I'm all in favour of you having a web site where you can combine all your various posts into a single comprehensive review, as the length of them makes it a more suitable place to publish than a forum.

    However if I can split hairs the start of it says
    NOTE: THIS REVIEW IS AN ORIGINAL DOCUMENT AUTHORED AND POSTED BY BAIL-IN AND MSE HAVE GIVEN PERMISSION T0 POST
    I doubt very much MSE have given you express permission to copy text from their forum to an independent web site.

    As you are the author I don't for a moment think they would refuse it but you should not make a claim you can't back up. I realise you have just done a blind copy/paste but you have to be careful not to make a misleading claim in a review about a firm misleading people!
    • bail-in
    • By bail-in 5th Mar 18, 11:38 AM
    • 39 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    bail-in
    Point taken, but the Web tools interface does not work well with my hardware and software. Once set up will not allow me re android os tablet to edit and app not supported. By the way I did not copy and paste from my MSE posts. I used my original. As an update, I have managed to delete the MSE headers using the web editing tool.
    Last edited by bail-in; 12-03-2018 at 6:36 AM.
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